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SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: Week 43 Discussion - Road to Perdition

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@coopdro lined up a Paul Newman bonanza for us this week and, after much confusion and consternation, we finally chose. . .


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Our Director


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Road to Perdition
is directed by SAM MENDES.

Mendes was born in England in 1965 and later attended Cambridge, where he directed several plays. Then, at 24, directed Judi Dench in Chekhov's The Cherry Orchard in the West End. Soon after he joined the Royal Shakespeare Company where his productions included Richard III and The Tempest.

He went on to have significant success on the stage before finally making his film debut, when he directed American Beauty in 1999. It won the Academy Award for Best Picture. (Can you imagine that shit? Your film wins Best Picture your first time behind the camera?)

He has since directed Jarhead, Revolutionary Road, Away We Go, Skyfall, Spectre, and of course today's film, Road to Perdition.

His next project, according to IMDB, is The Voyeur's Motel. Premise: A voyeur opens a motel primarily to watch other people have sex, but gets caught up in criminal activities after he witnesses a murder.



Our Stars


Tom Hanks: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000158/?ref_=tt_cl_t5


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Paul Newman: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000056/?ref_=tt_cl_t6


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Tyler Hoechlin: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0388382/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t1


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Daniel Craig: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0185819/?ref_=tt_cl_t7


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Film Overview and YouTube Videos


Premise: Bonds of loyalty are put to the test when a hitman's son witnesses what his father does for a living.

Budget: $80 million
Box Office: $181 million (worldwide)









Trivia
(courtesy of IMDB . . . message board killers)​


* The piano piece that Paul Newman and Tom Hanks play at the opening funeral was actually performed by the two actors.

* The final on-screen acting project for Paul Newman.

* Notice that Michael, Jr. isn't eating his pie and ice cream in the diner, when he and his father are talking about the money. According to Sam Mendes, in earlier takes, Tyler Hoechlin gobbled up his pie, not considering that he would have to perform the scene again and again. By the time they got to the take that's in the film, Hoechlin was stuffed and couldn't take another bite. Tom Hanks, by contrast, knew to put small amounts of food into his mouth and eat slowly.

* For the bank robbery sequences, Tyler Hoechlin had to learn to drive, something he was only too happy to do. Hoechlin mastered it all easily, but, just to be on the safe side, a stunt driver was sitting in the back, with his own set of driving controls.

* Jude Law hooked up with a magician to learn how to lace a coin through his fingers, a trick he performs in the film.

* The movie is loosely based on actual events and a real enforcer for mobster John Looney, who was betrayed by him.

* Maguire's crime scene photography work is based on 'Arthur 'Weegee' Fellig', a famous crime-scene photographer in the 1920s and 1930s who was licensed to possess a "scanner" radio that allowed him to listen to frequencies used by the police and fire departments. This enabled him to arrive (by car) at crime and fire scenes, sometimes before the authorities did, as if informed by telepathic powers, to which his nickname, a corruption of "Ouija", alludes. He sold his photos to the tabloid newspapers. The photos in Maguire's apartment are real 1930s crime scene photos, some of which were taken by Weegee himself.

* Jude Law hated his appearance for the film, and insisted on wearing a cap every time he wasn't on camera. Sam Mendes insisted that Law also remain paler than all of his co-stars.

* One day, when cinematographer Conrad L. Hall was setting up a shot of Paul Newman, Hall looked through his viewfinder and began to cry. When asked what was wrong, he just said, "He was so beautiful. He was so beautiful."

* Frank Nitti was a chain smoker, so Stanley Tucci had to get through approximately eighty cigarettes in one day.

* The film is set in 1931, and costume designer Albert Wolsky had real trouble finding distinctive clothing from the period. As this was the height of the Depression, fashions lacked the flamboyance of the 1920s and the style of the later 1930s when gangsterism was "fashionable". Failing to find any usable real clothes from 1931, Wolsky came across a weaver in upstate New York, who was able to make all of the required clothes, using the same weight of fabrics that were used in that period. Once woven, the costumes then had to be aged and dyed.

* The iconic shot of the Sullivan's car driving into Chicago involved 120 period cars on a quiet Sunday morning on Chicago's main thoroughfare.

* The diner where Tom Hanks and Jude Law meet was bought on the internet by production designer Dennis Gassner for 20,000 dollars.

* One of the locations for one of the bank robberies was physically perfect, but the wrong way around. There was only room to shoot from right to left and not vice versa. So production designer Dennis Gassner and his team had to dress the location, reversing street signs, license plates and even switching steering wheels on all the cars.

* Jude Law's character, Maguire, is not in the original graphic novel. He is a creation of writer David Self.

* Anthony LaPaglia filmed a scene in which he played Al Capone, but it was decided to leave Capone off-screen and so his scene was deleted. LaPaglia is listed first in the "special thanks" section of the credits as a result.

* The lake house, in Michigan, was actually reconstructed from existing foundations, and then taken down after the shoot, to preserve the history of the site.

* According to author Max Allan Collins, the "Road to Perdition" graphic novel was an American homage to the Manga series "Lone Wolf and Cub" by Kazuo Koike. Collins quotes Koike at the beginning of the book: "You must choose a road for yourself".

* Michael's book, which he carries in the film, is a book about the Lone Ranger. The Lone Ranger however, wasn't invented until 1933. This film takes place in the winter of 1931, two years prior the Lone Ranger's existence.

* Paul Newman had an assist with his accent from Irish writer Frank McCourt, the author of "Angela's Ashes", who gave him a tape of him speaking. McCourt has lived in the U.S. for many years, but still has some vestiges of his native Irish accent, which is what Newman wanted to emulate.

* Temperatures occasionally dropped to -30 degrees while filming took place. This didn't necessarily mean that they had all the snow they required. The special effects department still had to make many tons of the fake stuff.

* Make-up artist Daniel C. Striepeke's first instruction to the cast was to stay out of the sun as much as possible, as the film is set in the mid-winter.

* Tyler Hoechlin won his part after a nationwide casting call that encompassed over 2,000 young actors.

* When Michael Sullivan undresses himself to get ready for dinner, the pistol that his son sees is a Colt M 1911 A1 .45 caliber. The pistol was used up until 1985 as the U.S. Army standard pistol.

* Filmed on location in Illinois and Michigan. Even the interiors were filmed on a sound-stage constructed in Chicago's Armory.



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Members: @shadow_priest_x @europe1 @EL CORINTHIAN @HUNTERMANIA @iThrillhouse @DaDamn @chickenluver @jeicex @MusterX @BeardotheWeirdo @In The Name Of @Coolthulu @AndersonsFoot @TheRuthlessOne @coopdro @Scott Parker 27 @Mr Mojo Lane
 
Paul Newman was great in that final scene.

He went out strong with a few good "old man" roles like this and Nobody's Fool.

Avoided stuff like what Pacino and DeNiro are doing these days.
 
Paul Newman was great in that final scene.

I thought so, too. That scene was also beautifully shot. Just gorgeous stuff and so well directed.

He went out strong with a few good "old man" roles like this and Nobody's Fool.

Avoided stuff like what Pacino and DeNiro are doing these days.

Never did see Nobody's fool. I'll have to check it out.
 
I really enjoyed this movie, and I cant believe that I missed this gem, since Im a huge Paul Newman fan. The death scene at the house was really well done, and it kind of took me off guard, thinking the film was going to end on a positive note. The killer photographing him at the end really really was creepy and was a bit surprising.
 
The death scene at the house was really well done, and it kind of took me off guard, thinking the film was going to end on a positive note.

Yeah, I was a bit surprised by that one too. For whatever reason there was something about the ending that just wasn't feeling right, but I still wasn't quite expecting that.

And damn, poor kid. His entire family has been violently murdered. The movie makes it out like he goes on to live a happy and successful life after all that, but if this were a true story he would be all fucked up.
 
Mike Sullivan is an assassin. He was the Baba Yaga before the Baba Yaga. Maybe he isn't on the level of a Wick but he's pretty damn nifty with a gun.

th


The sins of the father is what this film is about.

Exodus 34:7
Keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.”

Mike's son, both his sons, got caught up in his sins and Paul Newman, who played Mr. Rooney, his son ordered the hit on Mike and his family. We saw the same sort of thing in John Wick with the son of Viggo who got on the wrong side of his father's favorite assassin. Michael Sullivan planned to take his son to his wife's sisters and drop his son there and she lived in Perdition but its kinda strange to make the town named Perdition.

This is a film about the sins of the father and about Perdition which is where unrepentant sinners go after death. Its also known as a place of suffering so I guess there is a dual meaning there about the sins of Michael Sullivan's lifestyle but also that his son would suffer with his aunt in Perdition.

Sullivan himself is a bad guy but I wanted to see him win or get his revenge. He's a sympathetic character even though he is a bad guy. He at least was a loyal man to Mr. Rooney for helping his family but Mr. Rooney's son fucked that all up. You don't kill Mike Sullivan's wife and son and try to kill him and think no shit is going to go down. Rooney's son was as stupid as this guy...

th


So Mr. Rooney hires a special assassin, McGuire, to kill Mike Sullivan and the scene where they are in the diner telling each other their cover story about what they do for a living is shot very well IMO, complete with the bead of sweat rolling down the side of Sullivan's face when he realizes the photographer is an assassin.



Hated the ending of the film but I guess when its time to pay the piper, we all pay.
 
Really? Nobody watched the film this week but me?
 
Okay, Road to Perdition. Let's do this.

I thought this movie was awesome. Probably Top 10 for all the movies we watched in the Club so far. I'd have to go look at the list to confirm that, but that's how I'm feeling at the moment. On every level I thought this film was great.

I've always had a certain fascination with the snowy winter season--largely I'm sure because I grew up in the South with mild winters and very little snow--and I always appreciate stories set during that time. Whether it's Fargo, Winter's Bone, Frozen River, A Simple Plan, The Shining, Let The Right One In, Grumpy Old Men or my favorite Christmas movies, I enjoy the shit. We can add Road to Perdition to that list.

I thought the recreation of 1931 was fantastic. Not that I was alive then, but it certainly feels authentic, and it looks like they paid very close attention to the details and did a great job of finding remaining locations that still have the look and feel of that time period. I know many of the interiors were sets, but some of them had to be authentic. I wish I knew which ones.

I also felt like the director and cinematographer worked together very well to capture images that were both striking and haunting. I thought a perfect example of this was the scene where Tom Hanks kills Newman and all his men. The visual of the machine gun blasting out of the darkness and all the goons falling one by one, Newman standing there knowing what's coming, and then Hanks emerging from the darkness was great. It was so well well-envisioned and beautifully photographed.

Everyone did great in their roles, Hanks as the ultimately good-hearted assassin, Newman as the crafty old man who runs shit, and Craig as the unbalanced and unpredictable son. It's interesting to see how Hanks's career has evolved. He started out as the comedy guy--almost a sort of lovable loser--in movies like Money Pit and The Burbs. But eventually he became this serious actor. Looking at his filmography, it seems to have specifically started with Sleepless in Seattle. It was his first role that had nothing to do with comedy, and then Philadelphia, Forrest Gump and Apollo 13 quickly followed.

One other thing I'd like to note is the emphasis on faith in the movie. There are multiple references to faith, both in the title as @MusterX noted, and also in the imagery and dialogue in the film. One thing we often see in mob movies is the Catholic faith of the mobsters, and I always find it both curious and jarring. How do these men resolve their lifestyles with their religious faith? I've always wanted to know that. Maybe they simply do it as Newman does in the film, when he says, "There's only one guarantee. None of us will see heaven." Maybe they just think they're fucked and have made peace with that. I dunno.

But yes, all in all I thought this was a fantastic film. I had seen it once before, many years ago, but at that time it didn't really land with me. Now on the second go-around I found it much more enjoyable and really connected with the movie. This is the film from Mendes that should've won for Best Picture, not fucking American Beauty! I probably have to stop just short of calling Road to Perdition a masterpiece, but if it's not, it's not far from one.

8.5/10
 
Okay, Road to Perdition. Let's do this.

I thought this movie was awesome. Probably Top 10 for all the movies we watched in the Club so far. I'd have to go look at the list to confirm that, but that's how I'm feeling at the moment. On every level I thought this film was great.

I've always had a certain fascination with the snowy winter season--largely I'm sure because I grew up in the South with mild winters and very little snow--and I always appreciate stories set during that time. Whether it's Fargo, Winter's Bone, Frozen River, A Simple Plan, The Shining, Let The Right One In, Grumpy Old Men or my favorite Christmas movies, I enjoy the shit. We can add Road to Perdition to that list.

I thought the recreation of 1931 was fantastic. Not that I was alive then, but it certainly feels authentic, and it looks like they paid very close attention to the details and did a great job of finding remaining locations that still have the look and feel of that time period. I know many of the interiors were sets, but some of them had to be authentic. I wish I knew which ones.

I also felt like the director and cinematographer worked together very well to capture images that were both striking and haunting. I thought a perfect example of this was the scene where Tom Hanks kills Newman and all his men. The visual of the machine gun blasting out of the darkness and all the goons falling one by one, Newman standing there knowing what's coming, and then Hanks emerging from the darkness was great. It was so well well-envisioned and beautifully photographed.

Everyone did great in their roles, Hanks as the ultimately good-hearted assassin, Newman as the crafty old man who runs shit, and Craig as the unbalanced and unpredictable son. It's interesting to see how Hanks's career has evolved. He started out as the comedy guy--almost a sort of lovable loser--in movies like Money Pit and The Burbs. But eventually he became this serious actor. Looking at his filmography, it seems to have specifically started with Sleepless in Seattle. It was his first role that had nothing to do with comedy, and then Philadelphia, Forrest Gump and Apollo 13 quickly followed.

One other thing I'd like to note is the emphasis on faith in the movie. There are multiple references to faith, both in the title as @MusterX noted, and also in the imagery and dialogue in the film. One thing we often see in mob movies is the Catholic faith of the mobsters, and I always find it both curious and jarring. How do these men resolve their lifestyles with their religious faith? I've always wanted to know that. Maybe they simply do it as Newman does in the film, when he says, "There's only one guarantee. None of us will see heaven." Maybe they just think they're fucked and have made peace with that. I dunno.

But yes, all in all I thought this was a fantastic film. I had seen it once before, many years ago, but at that time it didn't really land with me. Now on the second go-around I found it much more enjoyable and really connected with the movie. This is the film from Mendes that should've won for Best Picture, not fucking American Beauty! I probably have to stop just short of calling Road to Perdition a masterpiece, but if it's not, it's not far from one.

8.5/10

You forgot the roll that really got Hanks on the board.

th

I also felt this film was under rated.

th

In terms of justifying their lifestyle with their faith in God, its a weird organized crime perception that starts with the idea that its just business. If it requires a murder then that is unfortunate but its not personal, its not for fun, its not for mental illness, its just business. Mr. Rooney did say though, we are in a room of murderers and none of us will see Heaven, hence the Road to Perdition. Perdition though is about the unrepentant man and I think Michael Sullivan was repentant, he didn't want his son to turn out like he did, he was trying to provide a new life for his only son after his other son and wife were killed.
 
Sullivan himself is a bad guy but I wanted to see him win or get his revenge.

Perhaps a bad guy by regular world standards, but probably a good guy by the standards of the world in which he comes from.

The interesting thing is that in the film we never actually see Mike Sullivan kill anyone who didn't have it coming. We may infer it, but we never see it or even hear specific stories. Even the event that sets the plot in motion--the murder in the warehouse--wasn't committed by Mike. Mike was just there to talk.

So I'm not sure I feel like we have enough information to really know how good or bad he is.

But Mr. Rooney's son fucked that all up. You don't kill Mike Sullivan's wife and son and try to kill him and think no shit is going to go down.

I have to say, it is some cold-blooded shit to kill some guy's wife and kid. But, unless I somehow got way confused, didn't he kill the WRONG kid? Wasn't it the older son who saw the shit?

Rooney's son was as stupid as this guy...

th

What movie was it where we were recently discussing people who self-sabotage? Was it The Wrestler?

Well that is basically how Connor is. He's wild and unpredictable and is guaranteed to do something that is going make everyone's life more difficult. He's basically an animal.

Hated the ending of the film but I guess when its time to pay the piper, we all pay.

I wasn't in love with the ending either, but I'd be interested in hearing your reasons for hating it.
 
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You forgot the roll that really got Hanks on the board.

th

That was definitely a big role for him--no pun intended--but it was still just another comedy role for him. That was still several years before he made the transition to serious dramas.

I also felt this film was under rated.

th

I know it has its fans, but quite frankly, I found it disappointing. I still remember going to see that shit and was like, well, that just wasn't as good as I thought it would be.

In terms of justifying their lifestyle with their faith in God, its a weird organized crime perception that starts with the idea that its just business. If it requires a murder then that is unfortunate but its not personal, its not for fun, its not for mental illness, its just business. Mr. Rooney did say though, we are in a room of murderers and none of us will see Heaven, hence the Road to Perdition. Perdition though is about the unrepentant man and I think Michael Sullivan was repentant, he didn't want his son to turn out like he did, he was trying to provide a new life for his only son after his other son and wife were killed.

It may be just business, but Catholicism is pretty specific about murder being a mortal sin (i.e. a sin that will keep you out of heaven). But that's the thing about Catholics, many of them don't seem to truly understand their own faith. And the ones who do, often just don't take it too seriously or literally.

For instance, consider the reputation that Catholic weddings have for drunkenness. And yet, once again, drunkenness is a mortal sin according to the Catechism.
 
Really? Nobody watched the film this week but me?

Every week, for some reason, I think that I'm going to drop the discussion thread and then it's going to get attacked like a piece of meat in a river full of piranhas. But that pretty much never happens.

It HAS seemed like things have been particularly slow to get rolling in the past couple of weeks though. I'm not sure why.

Admittedly, I have to take partial responsibility this week for being late to announce the winner.
 
Perhaps a bad guy by regular world standards, but probably a good guy by the standards of the world in which he comes from.

The interesting thing is that in the film we never actually see Mike Sullivan kill anyone who didn't have it coming. We may infer it, but we never see it or even hear specific stories. Even the event that sets the plot in motion--the murder in the warehouse--wasn't committed by Mike. Mike was just there to talk.

So I'm not sure I feel like we have enough information to really know how good or bad he is.



I have to say, it is some cold-blooded shit to kill some guy's wife and kid. But, unless I somehow got way confused, didn't he kill the WRONG kid? Wasn't it the older son who saw the shit?



What movie was it where we were recently discussing people who self-sabotage? Was it The Wrestler?

Well that is basically how Connor is. He's wild and unpredictable and is guaranteed to do something that is going make everyone's life more difficult. He's basically an animal.



I wasn't in love with the ending either, but I'd be interesting in hearing your reasons for hating it.

You make a good point about Mike not appearing to be a coldblooded killer because even in the warehouse he was left no other choice once the guy in the chair was shot he had to shoot the other two guys are he would be killed. The problem though is with any sort of good story telling or writing you "show don't tell." What they showed us was that Michael Sullivan carried a gun around at all times, he very accomplished with firearms because in the office scene he grabs the pistol off the desk in a game of who can grab it fastest and kills two men in about 2 seconds. He went head to head with McGuire in the hotel room and his only mistake there was thinking McGuire was finished off when he wasn't. We also know he was able to kill all of Mr. Rooney's body guards and his driver in seconds. So we didn't see him be a very bad guy but we know, he probably did some bad shit that was not in the film.

This is why I say Michael Sullivan was John Wick before John Wick. He was Mr. Rooney's Baba Yaga. Mike Sullivan probably was a bad guy but in terms of his peers he was a good guy which is why he is a sympathetic character despite how he leads his life. As far as Connor self sabotaging and fucking up against an Alpha like Mike Sullivan, I told you he is this guy...

th
 
That was definitely a big role for him--no pun intended--but it was still just another comedy role for him. That was still several years before he made the transition to serious dramas.



I know it has its fans, but quite frankly, I found it disappointing. I still remember going to see that shit and was like, well, that just wasn't as good as I thought it would be.



It may be just business, but Catholicism is pretty specific about murder being a mortal sin (i.e. a sin that will keep you out of heaven). But that's the thing about Catholics, many of them don't seem to truly understand their own faith. And the ones who do, often just don't take it too seriously or literally.

For instance, consider the reputation that Catholic weddings have for drunkenness. And yet, once again, drunkenness is a mortal sin according to the Catechism.

We all sin, that's the main tenant of the faith, we all fall short of the grace of God. We also know Jesus made wine at the wedding and the word used is wine that has alcohol. There are also references to wine that does not have alcohol and its a different word, however, drunkenness is bad and the Bible says not to be one. I always find it weird how many different movies depict Catholic Priests who duck outside and light a smoke. Do a lot of them smoke?

Also if you think about most movies about organized crime depict the mobsters as being Catholic. The Godfather itself is a reference to the Catholic practice.
 
You make a good point about Mike not appearing to be a coldblooded killer because even in the warehouse he was left no other choice once the guy in the chair was shot he had to shoot the other two guys are he would be killed. The problem though is with any sort of good story telling or writing you "show don't tell." What they showed us was that Michael Sullivan carried a gun around at all times, he very accomplished with firearms because in the office scene he grabs the pistol off the desk in a game of who can grab it fastest and kills two men in about 2 seconds. He went head to head with McGuire in the hotel room and his only mistake there was thinking McGuire was finished off when he wasn't. We also know he was able to kill all of Mr. Rooney's body guards and his driver in seconds. So we didn't see him be a very bad guy but we know, he probably did some bad shit that was not in the film.

He definitely was a killer and good at it. But I guess what I am asking is: Who has he killed? Is it bad hombres who had it coming, or has he participated hits like Connor's hit on Mike's wife and kids?

He was Mr. Rooney's Baba Yaga.

I don't know what the fuck that is.

As far as Connor self sabotaging and fucking up against an Alpha like Mike Sullivan, I told you he is this guy...

th

It wasn't just him going up against Mike, though. It was also him killing the guy in the warehouse.

He was given specific instructions "just to talk," but could he do that? Of course not.
 
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