Rolled From Mount

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by PsyKahTik, Apr 10, 2008.

  1. PsyKahTik

    PsyKahTik White Belt

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    As a white belt, we rely mostly on the closed guard, but Ive been trying to avoid it like all hell. Of course its a "safe" position in BJJ, but Ive been aiming more towards the top game...mount, side, back, top half guard, etc. While in mount though, because I rarely get there, I get rolled back into closed guard often. How do you guys maintain your position...posting out with hands?
    How do you use your feet? Knees tight at sides, do you hook their shins? Cross your feet under theirs?

    I thought it was mostly because of my feet...not sure if they should be hooked or crossed...would that help alot or no? Is it just my balance...or what.

    Any pics/vids etc would help, thanks alot.
     
  2. FLMikeATT

    FLMikeATT Purple Belt

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    Your base will improve with experience. I like to use the grapevines myself. It's pretty easy to avoid the roll if you grapevine their legs and stay low on them. Of course this makes it a little more difficult to get a sub from mount, but if you be patient and threaten with something, opportunities will arise that you can take advantage of. Learning transitions, combos, and various attacking strategies (and hitting them) also comes with experience.

    Ask your teacher about it.
     
  3. PsyKahTik

    PsyKahTik White Belt

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    Are there a certain group of attacks prone to people that use grapvines?

    What about crossing your legs while in mount...would you advise against that or no, I havent seen it too often
     
  4. jasond

    jasond Purple Belt

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    The two most basic mount positions are low and high.

    With low mount, you want to grapevine their legs because your hips are directly over their hips. If you don't grapevine their legs, they can bridge and roll you easier. In low mount, you want a lower posture with your arms out to each side to base against getting reversed (think 4 legs of a table - 2 arms + 2 legs). Low mount is more of a "hold" position where the submissions you can pull from it are limited (mainly Ezekiel chokes and Americanas).

    With high mount, you're sitting very high on their chest trapping their arms. With high mount, you want to be postured up; neither leaning forward or back. Since your hips are not connected with theirs and you have a good upright posture, you'll be putting a LOT of weight on their chest not only making it hard for them to bridge you over, but also hampering their ability to breath regularly. With high mount, you have collar chokes, straight armbars, etc. Once you learn other versions of mount like s-mount, Owens' sitting mount, etc you will ideally transition into them from high mount.
     
  5. PsyKahTik

    PsyKahTik White Belt

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    That helped alot, thanks
     
  6. mnemonic

    mnemonic White Belt

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    to maintain control in any position you need leverage on both sides. generally when someone goes to roll you from mount they will grab 1 of you arms into their side so that its stuck on them. it will probably be a overhook into their armpit. Then they will block off the leg on the same side as the arm using their leg. then they can just use their other leg to roll you over your trapped arm and leg. One of the easiest ways to avoid this is when they trap your arm is to move your leg out far from them so they cant trap it also (if they trap your leg first move your arm out). This will prevent the roll.

    of course you need to then worry about the space you made by moving your leg out because it gives them shrimping room. but you should be able to reposition to block the shrimp as well as the roll. If it gets too hard you can try switching to side mount and then back into full when you regain control. ju-jitsu is often about doing the least bad move available to you, there isnt really a perfect thing to do in every opportunity.
     
  7. damit2hell

    damit2hell Guest

    there are several small things you do that make ur mount infinitely tighter, you can give em the "shoulder of justice" and keep there face pushed into the mat with one of your shoulders, or go high mount with your knees jammed into their armpits, crushing down on them with your weight making sure your arms are free to base out
     
  8. Throatpoker

    Throatpoker Black Belt

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    shift your stance to the s-mount when he attempts a hip escape, you can work an armbar from there.
     
  9. PsyKahTik

    PsyKahTik White Belt

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    Lookling up S mount...never heard of it
     
  10. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Do you finish collar chokes often? How do you finish it while maintaining the position?
     
  11. jasond

    jasond Purple Belt

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    I've only had success against fairly new guys (6 months - 1 year or less experience), but I mostly use the mounted collar choke to set up the armbar (the way Saulo teaches it).

    Tim Credeur broke the mounted collar choke down into fine detail at his last seminar I attended. I haven't really had a chance to play with it much lately though since most of my offense the past month have come from playing a specific game (working to take the back from half guard or mount then working single wing chokes and armbars).

    We rolled after the seminar, though, and Tim hit at least 3 mounted cross collar chokes on me. He may have caught me in a few more than that, but when you're tapping 20 times in 8 minutes to a black belt, you tend to lose count. :icon_twis
     
  12. jasond

    jasond Purple Belt

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    I just realized that I didn't answer your second question earlier. Sorry.

    As far as finishing it while maintaining position, the way he taught us was:

    1. Establish a good 4-fingers-in cross lapel grip with your right hand
    2. Get a deep, thumb-in grip cross lapel grip with your left forearm crossing over your right forearm. Instead of diving straight in, your elbow should be flared outward so that your left palm is facing towards the top of their head instead of facing down towards their neck / trap. This is important to defeat them defending by tucking their chin once you rotate your arm back inside.
    3. Rotate your left hand back towards the inside so as to bring your left elbow back inside near to your right elbow and close to your chest.
    4. Roll your hands towards each other and roll your wrists upwards towards you (your right palm comes towards you and the back of your left hand comes towards you - this is due to the opposing knuckles down / knuckles up grips).
    5. As you do this, close the distance bringing your chest down and placing your head down on the side of your top arm (in this case, your head goes down to your right near your left hand).
    6. If everything was done correctly, they *should* be tapping by now. If not, you can take out the remaining slack by expanding your chest (ensuring that everything is kept tight the entire way through).

    He mentioned that you obviously have the danger of them trying to Upa, but if you're looking for it you can't fight that off and prevent them from getting your foot trapped so that you can base against it. Also, he mentioned that if the choke is done right and they do Upa over into your guard, you should be able to finish it quickly from there anyway.
     
  13. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    Thanks for the tips. I trained with Tim in Houston before I came to Japan. I really wish I would have taken some privates with him so he could go over the fundamentals. He was maybe the 4th or 5th person to teach me the armbar from mount, but he was the only one to give me details on making it work on someone who knew what they were doing.

    Looking forward to seeing how he does on TUF.
     
  14. Throatpoker

    Throatpoker Black Belt

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    Check out these vids:

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