Quickest way for a striker to learn grappling defense

[Catweiser]

Lets say I did muay thai for a few years and wanted to do some MMA down the road-

How long would a guy need to work grappling in before being ready for the MMA ruleset? Assuming 2-3x weekly and a few privates.

Its not like id be trying to tap anyone so the BJJ submissions would be wasted time(except in learning defense) whereas wrestling might help keep things off the ground.

 

[Spazzmaster]

How about you learn to grapple? It's fun!

 

[lechien]

Easy. Just train at a mma club and get tapped during sparring. They will teach you subs defense that way.

 

[Dirty Holt]

Lets say I did muay thai for a few years and wanted to do some MMA down the road-

How long would a guy need to work grappling in before being ready for the MMA ruleset? Assuming 2-3x weekly and a few privates.

Its not like id be trying to tap anyone so the BJJ submissions would be wasted time(except in learning defense) whereas wrestling might help keep things off the ground.

Depends on the level of grappler you are facing.

Guy who is a hobbyist: 6-12 months

Defending against a purple belt or below: 6-12 months

Stopping takedowns of a highschool wrestler: 2-3 years

Defending against a brown/black at 3x a week: You will be well into your 50's

Defending takedowns against a college wrestler or above at 3x a week: You will be well into your 80's, and thats being generous.

 

[Bret Griffin]

Depends on the level of grappler you are facing.

Defending against a brown/black at 3x a week: You will be well into your 50's

Defending takedowns against a college wrestler or above at 3x a week: You will be well into your 80's, and thats being generous.

Damn Holt, favoritism much?

 

[Bret Griffin]

But in reply to the OP you really should train them both at the same time if at all possible because it's not just stopping the takedowns and subs that's important you also have to be able to get back up after they drop you on your ass and not get tko'd/subbed in the process because you gave up position.

 

[Rod1]

Depends on the level of grappler you are facing.

Guy who is a hobbyist: 6-12 months

Defending against a purple belt or below: 6-12 months

Stopping takedowns of a highschool wrestler: 2-3 years

Defending against a brown/black at 3x a week: You will be well into your 50's

Defending takedowns against a college wrestler or above at 3x a week: You will be well into your 80's, and thats being generous.

I would say that it also depends on the intensity of training and who is he training with.

You could train 200 years, but if you are defending takedowns against BJJ blue belts, the moment you get a decent wrestler you are done.

Samewise, getting thrown into the wolves, will make your life miserable but by a month you will have quite a decent defense, assuming you are alive at that point.

 

[Gfreak]

Depends on the level of grappler you are facing.

Guy who is a hobbyist: 6-12 months

Defending against a purple belt or below: 6-12 months

Stopping takedowns of a highschool wrestler: 2-3 years

Defending against a brown/black at 3x a week: You will be well into your 50's

Defending takedowns against a college wrestler or above at 3x a week: You will be well into your 80's, and thats being generous.

I really have to disagree on a lot of those lol.

2-3 years to stop the takedowns of a highschool wrestler? Maybe I just haven't been with any really good highschool wrestlers, but the ones that I have been with really weren't that hard to stop, as long as you knew what you were doing.

Also, at 3x a week, 1 year to stop a purple belt from subbing you? Yea, no sorry. Unless you're much better "physically" than said purple belt. That won't be enough (or the purple bel thimself just plain wasn't that good).

Also bullshit on the college wrestler too. While yes, it'll take a long time that is a huge exaggeration lol.

 

[TsunamiBJJ]

Most of the answers above are giving you realistic answers. You should learn to grapple.

If I were looking to get in to MMA from your position this is what I would do:

1) Learn to Wrestle. You don't have to learn everything from every where, but enough to where you're difficult to take down

2) Learn a few basic MMA applicable guards. One of the best is butterfly guard. Again - don't learn everything there is to know about that guard, but learn how to use it to stand up.

3) Learn submission defense. Learn how to be safe from the top of someone's guard and under side control or bottom guard.

You'll never really be an outstanding grappler training like this, but adding these skills will give you something of a chance.

 

[chaps]

Get on the mats and get tapped my friend. That's how everyone here learned.

 

[crash90]

I really have to disagree on a lot of those lol.

2-3 years to stop the takedowns of a highschool wrestler? Maybe I just haven't been with any really good highschool wrestlers, but the ones that I have been with really weren't that hard to stop, as long as you knew what you were doing.

Also, at 3x a week, 1 year to stop a purple belt from subbing you? Yea, no sorry. Unless you're much better "physically" than said purple belt. That won't be enough (or the purple bel thimself just plain wasn't that good).

Also bullshit on the college wrestler too. While yes, it'll take a long time that is a huge exaggeration lol.

I don't think Holt is out of line on this question. Remember his answer is based on training 2-3 times a week. Any decent high school wrestler spent at least 6-8 months a year on the mat either in season or training for season. We are talking 3-4 days a week offseason and 5-6 onseason. You think that 2-3 times a week for 2 years will make a difference? First, your going to be spreading out your training into how to sub, defend sub, takedown, how to stop takedown, etc. The wrestler has had one thing in mind - how to takedown and stop a takedown. I think the 2-3 years for a person of above average athleticism is spot on.

College wrestler? Completely spot on. Have you done stand up grappling with a college wrestler even from a small program? I have done standup with guys all the way from D1 programs down to NAIA national champions. These guys are on a totally different level. They combine all the athleticisim, hard work, and knowledge into one super hard to handle package. Good luck defending their takedowns without putting in a ton of work.

 

[Gfreak]

I don't think Holt is out of line on this question. Remember his answer is based on training 2-3 times a week. Any decent high school wrestler spent at least 6-8 months a year on the mat either in season or training for season. We are talking 3-4 days a week offseason and 5-6 onseason. You think that 2-3 times a week for 2 years will make a difference? First, your going to be spreading out your training into how to sub, defend sub, takedown, how to stop takedown, etc. The wrestler has had one thing in mind - how to takedown and stop a takedown. I think the 2-3 years for a person of above average athleticism is spot on.

College wrestler? Completely spot on. Have you done stand up grappling with a college wrestler even from a small program? I have done standup with guys all the way from D1 programs down to NAIA national champions. These guys are on a totally different level. They combine all the athleticisim, hard work, and knowledge into one super hard to handle package. Good luck defending their takedowns without putting in a ton of work.

He asked how long to learn grappling Defense, coming from a muay thai background. Which means he would specifically be learning how to defend the take down, and get back to his feet if taken down (and sub defense until he could). So he wouldn't be spreading out his training all that much if that was his focus. I"ve trained with quite a few highschool wrestlers, and they really didn't seem like anything special. This might have a lot do with me being down in Texas, where wrestling isn't anywhere near as big as it is up north.

As for college, yes I have trained with them before. I never said it would be easy for someone to learn to defend their takedowns at all. But the whole impossible by the time you're 80 thing is just not true from my experience.

 

[orangeclay]

If you really want mma in your future then I would think you would start training both stand-up striking and grappling now. It seems a bit odd to have an end goal set-up and yet not want to train all the components that go into meeting that goal.

 

[DoctorTaco]

2 years

 

[killakoy]

As for college, yes I have trained with them before. I never said it would be easy for someone to learn to defend their takedowns at all. But the whole impossible by the time you're 80 thing is just not true from my experience.

I say holt was being kind. At practicing takedown defense for only 3x a week of about ~1 hour at a time... you will not be able to stop a college wrestler's takedowns.

I remember in high school, there was a kid that just placed 2nd at states and one of the alumnus just came back from his 2nd year at Iowa. They were about equal in weight. Well, the kid that took 2nd in states was being taken down at will. Couldn't do anything to stop it...

 

[HIMBOB]

Damn Holt, favoritism much?

Takedowns are eaier than subs.

Almost every MMA fight has takedowns, most don't have submissions.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

I don't think there's anywhere you can go and just say "Train me in BJJ, but only teach me defense." Unless you're someone special who can afford to not go to regular classes and just be taught whatever you think you need.

Also it depends on the level of opposition. But in general you're looking at this in an unrealistic way, and if you're looking at learning grappling as a chore that you have to deal with in order to fight MMA, you're going to take longer to learn it. 2-3 times a week is not a lot. Becoming a competent defensive wrestler will take time. And like it or not, you're going to have to learn the whole thing, not just anti-grappling. You perspective is unrealistic.

 

[ASMBJJ]

Depends on the level of grappler you are facing.

Guy who is a hobbyist: 6-12 months

Defending against a purple belt or below: 6-12 months

Stopping takedowns of a highschool wrestler: 2-3 years

Defending against a brown/black at 3x a week: You will be well into your 50's

Defending takedowns against a college wrestler or above at 3x a week: You will be well into your 80's, and thats being generous.

I agree with some of this but also have some points of disagreement. How do you define a hobbyist? I know some black belts who I would consider hobbyists (i.e. only training two days a week, but have been at it for many years) If it is a white belt hobbyist, then yes, 6 months will probably be enough. But for someone who has been training for ten years, but with inconsistency and not many times per week, 6 months will not be enough.

Also, it will take you more than 1 year to stop subs from a purple (assuming you have no grappling experience.

There really is no set formula for "how long it takes to sub a guy who ______." There are guys who have been training for years and still suck, but then there are prodigies like BJ Penn who are subbing higher belts very fast. My advice would be to just immerse yourself in BJJ and wrestling, learn as much as you can, and when you and your coach feel that you are ready, then sign up for a fight. And also, don't think "Oh I don't care about subbing people, just sub defense." To properly know how to defend a sub, you need to know how it works, which means knowing how to do it. Just go learn with an open mind.

Edit: That last paragraph was directed at TS. I know Holt already knows that stuff

 

[devante]

Easy. Just train at a mma club and get tapped during sparring. They will teach you subs defense that way.

going out and getting tapped left and right will help you learn submission defense and escapes whether on top or bottom; jeremy horn pretty much developed his whole game from getting his *ss kicked grappling initially, his defense got legit then he began to develop his off/counters..


so actually doing it is one way and probably the quickest way to be functionally effective, but to really get good that will take actual grappling classes; doing it just by grappling works..but it has a steep learning curve due to how your learning..

its like just sparring striking and not training it, at some point to breakthrough you have to train to improve and to progress; but the constant sparring will assist you in conditioning awareness comfort and mental toughness that comes from doing it live all the time.

but you will hit a glass ceiling and won't be able to work around that UNTIL you develop/refine and diversify the tech you have and use and can use.

i learned from sparring/grappling exclusively, it has helped me and made me functionally effective; but i have alot of technical holes.. deficiencies that are a direct result of a lack of (consistent) technical training. But i have always been able to hold my own grappling w/various stylist; not great, but hold my own. Then again i make it a point to grapple the better guys..and the guys who compete and to grapple/spar ALOT.. I can hold my own, defend subs/escape subs/reverse guys/def takedowns; but i still get taken down alot, subbed alot, etc etc. But i still do better than most people who don't have a formal grappling b/g.

 

[hell wall]

I would drill takedown defense and standing up from bottom 3 hours a day 5 days a week...in 2 months in this fashion u will be very hard to drag to ground