Proper thumb placement in bare fist?

[Yanphuv]

I've been wondering which is the right placement for your thumb with a bare fist. Is is thumb over index finger, or thumb over index and middle finger. My thumb just over my index finger feels more natural and is faster for me, but I feel I'll hit the side of my thumb if my fist is out of place. See below what my fist looks like.

So should I keep making my fist this way or should I make it something like below. by the way, when I make it the way pictured below my finger knuckles stick out further and my knuckles.

 

[Sinister]

Middle finger, will save you from thumb breaks. Not that you should be hitting things bare-fisted to begin with.

 

[Yanphuv]

Middle finger, will save you from thumb breaks. Not that you should be hitting things bare-fisted to begin with.

When ever I have my thumb over my first and middle finger it feels like I have a weaker wrist, but when it's just over my fist finger my fist and wrist feel much more solid but I'm afriad I'll break my thumb if I hit wrong

 

[Sinister]

Your wrist isn't kept in position by your thumb.

 

[Yanphuv]

Your wrist isn't kept in position by your thumb.

I didn't say it was? I said it makes my wrist FEEL a little weaker.

 

[Sinister]

You implied it is. Your wrist is only weak if it's not held in proper position. I can't tell you how to FEEL, I can only tell you basic physiology.

 

[Watsurgol]

OP, what's your goal here?

Are you asking because you're a boxer and don't know how to punch without a glove on?

Are you taking karate lessons and are too nervous to ask the teacher?

Are you reading self-defense books and trying to figure out how to survive a street fight?

Other?

 

[Yanphuv]

OP, what's your goal here?

Are you asking because you're a boxer and don't know how to punch without a glove on?

Are you taking karate lessons and are too nervous to ask the teacher?

Are you reading self-defense books and trying to figure out how to survive a street fight?

Other?

I do boxing, but we have never learnt how to make a fist without gloves so that's why i'm asking.

 

[Watsurgol]

I do boxing, but we have never learnt how to make a fist without gloves so that's why i'm asking.

Why don't you ask your instructor? Chances are he knows more about bare-knuckle fighting than you think.

 

[Bennosuke]

As dumb as it sounds, the human hand is not made to punch things. There is no real safe position that doesn't led itself to some hand injury. Because of the shape of the hand, the proximal carpal of the pointer finger will be out in front of the middle finger. The meat of the palm on the thumb side (thenar muscles) pushes the index finger forward. The result of this is that when you punch, the index finger flexes back into the thenar compartment, and over time you will damage the ligaments of the thumb. I, and many other knockdown karate guys get cysts in their thenar compartment from this trauma.

Because of this, I tend to have the thumb only over the index finger, I find that it causes less flexion of the thumb so that the thenar compartment is less prominent. However, different people have different hands, so this problem can be more or less of a problem for people.

@Sinister- What do you mean by thumb breaks? What do you think causes this? I know you are very experienced so I would like to hear your thoughts.

 

[shera]

Your wrist isn't kept in position by your thumb.

Oh man! I lol'd at this at my desk.

 

[Yanphuv]

I've only got one straight answer so far. No one else seems to be giving an opinion. By the way, there's a nerve in your wrist that when you have your thumb over your two fingers, it weakens the wrist. Video of this is here : Wing Chun - How To Make a Fist (part 1) - YouTube

Plus, when I have my thumb over my two fingers on my left hand it's fine. But on my right hand my wrist gets really stiff and when I would move it a bit inwards to throw a hook it would really hurt.

 

[KyleInAction]

Middle finger, will save you from thumb breaks. Not that you should be hitting things bare-fisted to begin with.

Your wrist isn't kept in position by your thumb.

You implied it is. Your wrist is only weak if it's not held in proper position. I can't tell you how to FEEL, I can only tell you basic physiology.

Why don't you ask your instructor? Chances are he knows more about bare-knuckle fighting than you think.

As dumb as it sounds, the human hand is not made to punch things. There is no real safe position that doesn't led itself to some hand injury. Because of the shape of the hand, the proximal carpal of the pointer finger will be out in front of the middle finger. The meat of the palm on the thumb side (thenar muscles) pushes the index finger forward. The result of this is that when you punch, the index finger flexes back into the thenar compartment, and over time you will damage the ligaments of the thumb. I, and many other knockdown karate guys get cysts in their thenar compartment from this trauma.

Because of this, I tend to have the thumb only over the index finger, I find that it causes less flexion of the thumb so that the thenar compartment is less prominent. However, different people have different hands, so this problem can be more or less of a problem for people.

@Sinister- What do you mean by thumb breaks? What do you think causes this? I know you are very experienced so I would like to hear your thoughts.

I've only got one straight answer so far.

I count 5 completely legitimate responses.

edit: but here's another one anyway. I make mine with the thumb pressed firmly against my index finger, with the tip of the thumb dug-into the back of the center knuckle on the index finger. In my incredibly limited experience punching things bare-fisted, that prevent my thumb from jamming or otherwise bending in an unpleasant manner (double-jointed, it is).

 

[Jukai]

Here's another opinion: if you don't have your thumb tucked in, someone weaves to avoid your punch and you clip him with your jutting out thumb, you've jammed or broke it and that's not something you want to deal with when you're for some reason in a bare knuckle fist fight.

Go ahead, close one fist and with only 20%/30% power, open your other hand and just clip it on the side of your hand with your thumb jutting out (first picture). Clipping your thumb will hurt with just 20% power. Imagine throwing a cross at someone full power, and clipping that thumb. Ouch.

Avoid that. Just tuck it in (second picture). Regardless if there is a nerve or not, it wont have any sizable effect on the strength of your wrist.

 

[Yanphuv]

Whenever I have my thumb over my two fingers it makes the two finger knuckles stick out more which makes me have to bend my wrist the slightest bit to not hit those. This makes my wrist buckle alot. Any advice?

 

[Sn3d]

Your thumb should reach over you index finger and middle finger to touch your ring finger.

 

[panamaican]

As dumb as it sounds, the human hand is not made to punch things. There is no real safe position that doesn't led itself to some hand injury. Because of the shape of the hand, the proximal carpal of the pointer finger will be out in front of the middle finger. The meat of the palm on the thumb side (thenar muscles) pushes the index finger forward. The result of this is that when you punch, the index finger flexes back into the thenar compartment, and over time you will damage the ligaments of the thumb. I, and many other knockdown karate guys get cysts in their thenar compartment from this trauma.

Because of this, I tend to have the thumb only over the index finger, I find that it causes less flexion of the thumb so that the thenar compartment is less prominent. However, different people have different hands, so this problem can be more or less of a problem for people.

@Sinister- What do you mean by thumb breaks? What do you think causes this? I know you are very experienced so I would like to hear your thoughts.

There is an alternative method of making a fist that protects the thenar muscles (meat of the palm). Instead of completely curling the pointer finger, you leave the last knuckle unbent and rest the extended digit on the flesh of the palm. The thumb placements remains the same.

Try that and your palms will thank you.

I'm trying to find a picture but I've only seen it referenced in one old book.

 

[ufcufcufc***]

As dumb as it sounds, the human hand is not made to punch things. There is no real safe position that doesn't led itself to some hand injury. Because of the shape of the hand, the proximal carpal of the pointer finger will be out in front of the middle finger. The meat of the palm on the thumb side (thenar muscles) pushes the index finger forward. The result of this is that when you punch, the index finger flexes back into the thenar compartment, and over time you will damage the ligaments of the thumb. I, and many other knockdown karate guys get cysts in their thenar compartment from this trauma.

Because of this, I tend to have the thumb only over the index finger, I find that it causes less flexion of the thumb so that the thenar compartment is less prominent. However, different people have different hands, so this problem can be more or less of a problem for people.

@Sinister- What do you mean by thumb breaks? What do you think causes this? I know you are very experienced so I would like to hear your thoughts.

This. There are ppl that condition there knuckles so they are able to punch threw walls. their hands are deformed.