Okinawan Goju Ryu Karate

[Renton]

Hi guys,

I've been looking for a martial art to train in for a while but work and family commitments have slowed me down. One school that might work for me is a Goju Ryu school but I know very little about the style. Is it like Kyokushin? I've read a bit about this and it seems to be the most respected form of karate (is that right?) I've seen clips on YouTube and something on Fight Quest which make the style look hardcore, but how does Goju Ryu stand in relation to Kyokushin?

I must confess that I'm not a complete novice - I earned a black belt in Wado Ryu as a kid and want to avoid learning another weak form of karate. I dabbled in kickboxing (which was a freestyle sparring extension of Wado Ryu really insofar as the gym I went to was run but Wado Ryu folk). Also, I dabbled in Taekwondo but got badly injured though I wasn't too impressed. (It was very child-like and flashy). This all took place before I left school. I then took up bjj for a year as an adult in my 30s, but moved cities and can't find a decent place near me.

I guess what I'm seeking is some sort of reassurance about the style before I go along! I'm in Bristol (UK). I've contacted the local kickboxing club and the instructors are Wado Ryu black belts (can't get rid of them!!).

Also, what is the deal with no head punches in Kyokushin? Is it a training safety thing?

Thanks in advance for your input

Renton

 

[Corgistampede]

Goju Ryu is more similar to Wado Ryu than Kyokushin. Fyi Goju Ryu, Wado Ryu, Shito ryu, and Shotokan are the four styles of karate recognized by the World Karate Federation, and since the WKF founding in 1990 the styles have been blended together by a lot of instructors (particularly those in Europe, Western Asia, and South Africa). If you didn't like your Wado Ryu instructions, I would be willing to bet that this Goju Ryu dojo might not please you too much either. But it's worth still looking into. It sounds like your looking for full contact sparring, talk to the instructor and specifically ask him if what his typical training session is like, if they free spar regularly, and if they do body conditioning stuff.

Also, there is no punching to the head in Kyokushin because of their tournament rules. Supposedly they used to allow punches to the face and some people claim that fighters died/got seriously injured from it. But I don't really buy that because Kyokushin bouts end with devasting high kicks all the time that do just as much damage as any knockout punch. The other reason that I've heard which I think is much more credible is that when they used to allow punches to the face, since it's bare knuckled a lot of fights had to be stopped due to cuts/broken hands.

 

[Renton]

Goju Ryu is more similar to Wado Ryu than Kyokushin. Fyi Goju Ryu, Wado Ryu, Shito ryu, and Shotokan are the four styles of karate recognized by the World Karate Federation, and since the WKF founding in 1990 the styles have been blended together by a lot of instructors (particularly those in Europe, Western Asia, and South Africa). If you didn't like your Wado Ryu instructions, I would be willing to bet that this Goju Ryu dojo might not please you too much either. But it's worth still looking into. It sounds like your looking for full contact sparring, talk to the instructor and specifically ask him if what his typical training session is like, if they free spar regularly, and if they do body conditioning stuff.

Also, there is no punching to the head in Kyokushin because of their tournament rules. Supposedly they used to allow punches to the face and some people claim that fighters died/got seriously injured from it. But I don't really buy that because Kyokushin bouts end with devasting high kicks all the time that do just as much damage as any knockout punch. The other reason that I've heard which I think is much more credible is that when they used to allow punches to the face, since it's bare knuckled a lot of fights had to be stopped due to cuts/broken hands.

Hi! Thanks for the quick reply and heads up. That's really disappointing but good to know. You hit the nail on the head - I'd like to do full contact sparring. The problem with Wado Ryu was the holding back of power in favour of quick flicks and taps for the purpose of point scoring. There was also a big emphasis on form and flare. I had great fun as a kid, but wanted something that was more serious and useful.

Reading the bio of the instructor made me thing that Goju Ryu and Kyokushin were very close, but I'm so new to both styles that I haven't got a clue! http://www.gojukaratebristol.co.uk/sensei.html

Perhaps karate isn't the way to go...

 

[BudoNoah]

The poster above is talking about Japanese Goju-Ryu. Not the same.

Kyokushin got its body conditioning and sparring, in part, from Okinawan Goju-Ryu. The fact that the instructor in the link you provided has a Kyokushin and Muay Thai background would indicate that he likely continues those practices. I know some Okinawan Goju-Ryu people, and they are some dedicated, tough, hard-hitting karateka. There's certainly bad Goju-Ryu out there, as with anything, but this particular dojo doesn't set off red flags for me. He is also affiliated with Gavin Mulholland Sensei, whom I have heard of as being a tough, full-contact fighter in his own right.

Go try it out.

 

[Renton]

The poster above is talking about Japanese Goju-Ryu. Not the same.

Kyokushin got its body conditioning and sparring, in part, from Okinawan Goju-Ryu. The fact that the instructor in the link you provided has a Kyokushin and Muay Thai background would indicate that he likely continues those practices. I know some Okinawan Goju-Ryu people, and they are some dedicated, tough, hard-hitting karateka. There's certainly bad Goju-Ryu out there, as with anything, but this particular dojo doesn't set off red flags for me. He is also affiliated with Gavin Mulholland Sensei, whom I have heard of as being a tough, full-contact fighter in his own right.

Go try it out.

There are different schools of Goju Ryu? Man, I have a lot to learn!! Is there a love which documents the different styles? I'll probably give this place a go on Monday and see what happens. I read a lot about mcdojos on this forum and was worried about getting into something soft and sporty. I like the idea of throws and ground work. Is that standard, or the instructors implementation?

Very much appreciate the input.

 

[Corgistampede]

The poster above is talking about Japanese Goju-Ryu. Not the same.

Kyokushin got its body conditioning and sparring, in part, from Okinawan Goju-Ryu. The fact that the instructor in the link you provided has a Kyokushin and Muay Thai background would indicate that he likely continues those practices. I know some Okinawan Goju-Ryu people, and they are some dedicated, tough, hard-hitting karateka. There's certainly bad Goju-Ryu out there, as with anything, but this particular dojo doesn't set off red flags for me. He is also affiliated with Gavin Mulholland Sensei, whom I have heard of as being a tough, full-contact fighter in his own right.

Go try it out.

The only traditional karate style which is considered "Japanese" is Shotokan. I was complaining about the shit that WKF and EKF instructors pass off as Goju-Ryu. But you do raise a good point because real traditional Goju - Ryu looks like this

[YT]zcjmPA2g26I[/YT]

And TS the dojo you posted seems be very full contact orientated off of the sensi's bio. Talk to the guy, ask him what he focuses on, and try it because you won't know if you will like it if you don't.

 

[Corgistampede]

There are different schools of Goju Ryu? Man, I have a lot to learn!! Is there a love which documents the different styles? I'll probably give this place a go on Monday and see what happens. I read a lot about mcdojos on this forum and was worried about getting into something soft and sporty. I like the idea of throws and ground work. Is that standard, or the instructors implementation?

Very much appreciate the input.

I wouldn't call it different schools, but every style is open to interpretation by different organizations, instructors, and the individual karatekas. The whole mcdojo's thing is a little overblown, because it's pretty easy to avoid them if you stick to instructors associated with reputable organizations/lineage.

 

[Renton]

The only traditional karate style which is considered "Japanese" is Shotokan. I was complaining about the shit that WKF and EKF instructors pass off as Goju-Ryu. But you do raise a good point because real traditional Goju - Ryu looks like this

[YT]zcjmPA2g26I[/YT]

And TS the dojo you posted seems be very full contact orientated off of the sensi's bio. Talk to the guy, ask him what he focuses on, and try it because you won't know if you will like it if you don't.

That's the kind of grandpa you want looking out for you! Never come across this kind of training the UK. Like you say, I should really give it a go. This is going to sound daft, but the instructor of the dojo I'm considering looks strong and athletic. I've lost track of the amount of fat, middle-aged karate masters I've seen or come across. Big wobbly tummies on karate instructors make me nervous!

 

[Renton]

I wouldn't call it different schools, but every style is open to interpretation by different organizations, instructors, and the individual karatekas. The whole mcdojo's thing is a little overblown, because it's pretty easy to avoid them if you stick to instructors associated with reputable organizations/lineage.

Do you train/study karate?

 

[King Shisa]

The only traditional karate style which is considered "Japanese" is Shotokan. I was complaining about the shit that WKF and EKF instructors pass off as Goju-Ryu. But you do raise a good point because real traditional Goju - Ryu looks like this

[YT]zcjmPA2g26I[/YT]

And TS the dojo you posted seems be very full contact orientated off of the sensi's bio. Talk to the guy, ask him what he focuses on, and try it because you won't know if you will like it if you don't.

lol. I disagree with what you're saying. It's more like the training done by particular black belt karateka in many dojo across Okinawa will feature some seemingly ridiculous training like the video of Higaonna sensei. Higaonna's is something he is particularly known for and just showcases how ridiculously conditioned his body is to striking and odds are you probably won't ever be doing the shit he's doing unless you personally made the decision to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLibKL7OzDY

Better showcase of what Okinawan Karate is like.

 

[Jukai]

There are different schools of Goju Ryu? Man, I have a lot to learn!! Is there a love which documents the different styles? I'll probably give this place a go on Monday and see what happens. I read a lot about mcdojos on this forum and was worried about getting into something soft and sporty. I like the idea of throws and ground work. Is that standard, or the instructors implementation?

Very much appreciate the input.

Old-Style Goju, normally called Okinawan Goju (although that is technically incorrect) is the predecessor art to Kyokushin. The creator of Kyokushin,Mas Oyama, was a seventh degree black belt (or something) in Goju. Goju's predecessor arts came from the Naha region of Okinawa, different from Shotokan-esque arts which came from the Shurei region.

HOWEVER, during the failed Olympic unification attempt of Karate, three Shuri arts (Shotokan, Shito, kinda Wado although that also has Tomarei-te influences) and Goju joined together. They decided to use the tournament format that was close to Shotokan's JKA, and so it looks like this.
Because of the training towards the tournament, Goju-Ryu changed dramatically.

The distinction between the older style and new style is usually "Okinawan" or "Japanese" but even that is iffy. See if the dojo is affiliated to the WKF or USNKF, if it is, you know it is the Goju style that looks pretty much identical to Shotokan and is mostly point sparring.

Interestingly enough, both Neil Groves and Gunnar Nelson credit Goju for their standup. Obviously the former learned the older, Goju-Ryu style and the latter learned the new age, point-sparring Goju Ryu style. you can see the difference in how they fight.

 

[Corgistampede]

Do you train/study karate?

Yes, Shotokan.

 

[Renton]

Old-Style Goju, normally called Okinawan Goju (although that is technically incorrect) is the predecessor art to Kyokushin. The creator of Kyokushin,Mas Oyama, was a seventh degree black belt (or something) in Goju. Goju's predecessor arts came from the Naha region of Okinawa, different from Shotokan-esque arts which came from the Shurei region.

HOWEVER, during the failed Olympic unification attempt of Karate, three Shuri arts (Shotokan, Shito, kinda Wado although that also has Tomarei-te influences) and Goju joined together. They decided to use the tournament format that was close to Shotokan's JKA, and so it looks like this.
Because of the training towards the tournament, Goju-Ryu changed dramatically.

The distinction between the older style and new style is usually "Okinawan" or "Japanese" but even that is iffy. See if the dojo is affiliated to the WKF or USNKF, if it is, you know it is the Goju style that looks pretty much identical to Shotokan and is mostly point sparring.

Interestingly enough, both Neil Groves and Gunnar Nelson credit Goju for their standup. Obviously the former learned the older, Goju-Ryu style and the latter learned the new age, point-sparring Goju Ryu style. you can see the difference in how they fight.

Absolutely fascinating stuff - thanks for replying. I bet it'd be a culture shock going to the mother country and using traditional methods/techniques if you are used to sport karate (Which is what we called Wado Ryu). Makes me wonder about the history of kick boxing too and the relative usefulness of Okinawa styles vs sport styles. (In the ring, not in the street)

 

[BudoNoah]

I just noticed that his Goju-Ryu lineage connects him to the Jundokan in Okinawa. I know a few Jundokan and former-Jundokan people, and in my opinion, that's probably the best source of Goju-Ryu available. They seem to pass on a solid understanding of what the Goju-Ryu kata are actually for, on top of training power and toughness. Excellent!

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Absolutely fascinating stuff - thanks for replying. I bet it'd be a culture shock going to the mother country and using traditional methods/techniques if you are used to sport karate (Which is what we called Wado Ryu). Makes me wonder about the history of kick boxing too and the relative usefulness of Okinawa styles vs sport styles. (In the ring, not in the street)

Haha, WOW the history of kickboxing. Don't even get us started on here because the guys on sherdog (myself included) can go on about that for DAYS. There a few threads about it on here though

Also, some places in Bristol:

http://www.gojukaratebristol.co.uk/ I saw you posted this one a bit earlier, but I think it could be worth taking a look to say the least.

http://www.bristolkarate.org/www.bristolkarate.org/Welcome.html it's shotokan, but its worth seeing if you enjoy it.

http://www.bristoldojo.com/kickboxing.html K-1 rules kickboxing (meaning low kicks) might also interest you, I'm going to assume that this gyms kickboxing base is muay thai because it also runs a muay thai class

http://www.bristolmuaythai.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ I know this is different from what you were looking for but if you're interested in full contact hard training and a style that will allow you to potentially compete in both muay thai AND kickboxing, then this is a good style for you.


It's a little tricky to find a GOOD traditional karate dojo that isn't practising softly, which might be the reason so many people show interest kyokushin now. I'm bias in my opinion that muay thai is probably the best stand up art but ultimately I think a martial art should be what you enjoy the most.

I wasn't able to find any kyokushin dojos in Bristol from my quick search. But what exactly are YOU looking for from a new martial art/karate style

 

[Renton]

I just noticed that his Goju-Ryu lineage connects him to the Jundokan in Okinawa. I know a few Jundokan and former-Jundokan people, and in my opinion, that's probably the best source of Goju-Ryu available. They seem to pass on a solid understanding of what the Goju-Ryu kata are actually for, on top of training power and toughness. Excellent!

I have no idea what that means without Google, but it sounds good!

 

[Renton]

Haha, WOW the history of kickboxing. Don't even get us started on here because the guys on sherdog (myself included) can go on about that for DAYS. There a few threads about it on here though

Also, some places in Bristol:

http://www.gojukaratebristol.co.uk/ I saw you posted this one a bit earlier, but I think it could be worth taking a look to say the least.

http://www.bristolkarate.org/www.bristolkarate.org/Welcome.html it's shotokan, but its worth seeing if you enjoy it.

http://www.bristoldojo.com/kickboxing.html K-1 rules kickboxing (meaning low kicks) might also interest you, I'm going to assume that this gyms kickboxing base is muay thai because it also runs a muay thai class

http://www.bristolmuaythai.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ I know this is different from what you were looking for but if you're interested in full contact hard training and a style that will allow you to potentially compete in both muay thai AND kickboxing, then this is a good style for you.


It's a little tricky to find a GOOD traditional karate dojo that isn't practising softly, which might be the reason so many people show interest kyokushin now. I'm bias in my opinion that muay thai is probably the best stand up art but ultimately I think a martial art should be what you enjoy the most.

I wasn't able to find any kyokushin dojos in Bristol from my quick search. But what exactly are YOU looking for from a new martial art/karate style

Thanks for checking Bristol out - that's very kind of you! I've seen the other schools and wasn't sure if they were any good (but I think that partly stems from a lack of information on the websites about the credentials of the instructors). I don't think I know what to look for when it comes to identifying good kickboxing gyms - I'm a bit worried that the instructors are just ex-karate guys trained in a softer sport that got bored of kata etc. (Having said that, my old club when I was a kid is now a kickboxing club with kata, which confuses things). It's not that I think kick boxing is soft, it's that I keep stumbling across Wado Ryu guys running gyms who don't have any real kickboxing tournament experience. Then there are kickboxing gyms near me that are more for kids and have belt rankings, kata, light sparing etc (so, basically soft karate again).

I guess my priorities are:

1. Having fun
2. Getting in shape
3. Learning a street-effective art
4. Engage in tough, realistic training
5. Finding something I can study in the long run (so I guess something with a clear training path that isn't full of padding and fluff to learn).

I found one person that teaches Kyokushin in Bristol, but he does it at the other end of the city for 1 hour a week.

I'd be interested in competing but it's not the main reason I would train.

The only thing that is niggling me about both Kyokushin and Goju Ryu is the apparent lack of face contact. I can't help think that this is a big flaw in these styles. You'd learn to move, strike and look in relation to the torso and lower body. Isn't this a problem if you have to apply it in the street?

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Thanks for checking Bristol out - that's very kind of you! I've seen the other schools and wasn't sure if they were any good (but I think that partly stems from a lack of information on the websites about the credentials of the instructors). I don't think I know what to look for when it comes to identifying good kickboxing gyms - I'm a bit worried that the instructors are just ex-karate guys trained in a softer sport that got bored of kata etc. (Having said that, my old club when I was a kid is now a kickboxing club with kata, which confuses things). It's not that I think kick boxing is soft, it's that I keep stumbling across Wado Ryu guys running gyms who don't have any real kickboxing tournament experience. Then there are kickboxing gyms near me that are more for kids and have belt rankings, kata, light sparing etc (so, basically soft karate again).

Hey it

 

[Renton]

Hey it

 

[AndyMaBobs]

That's really insightful - thanks. I had no idea about the different rule sets but K1 sounds great! I'll do a bit more research on local clubs and see what others have to say. There's quite a lot of choice in Bristol, but the problem is time and work/family commitments. The Goju Ryu club is round the corner from where I work which helps! The Kyokushin is just too far away really, particularly for an hour's workout.

Out of interest, have you seen this clip? Is this Thai fighter any good?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Sg3ZFmFPeo

No problem, I wish I'd had someone to explain stuff like that when I first started looking
Give K-1 a go, failing that I'd look for muay thai because that is the closest thing too it. K-1 tends to have kyokushin influence depending on the coach, the K-1 gym local to me is more muay thai based but its an expansion of a muay thai gym, but K-1 is generally solid, you have to be pretty hardcore to know about K-1.

I've just watched it and no, the muay thai fighter is not good. He stands far too wide and bladed which is just asking to be kicked in the legs, he over commits on his punches which causes him to over extend to be countered (not too bad in kyokushin because of the lack of face punches but SUICIDE in muay thai) and instead of raising his leg to check a leg kick (causing the shins to clash) he instead lunges forwards and bends when he gets hit, he has a nice kick but its clear he's not accustom to the rules of kyokushin and I personally think his stance is awful.
The kyokushin guy is good.

To see a good muay thai fighter heres a decent example:

[YT]fec32bOLvLw[/YT]