Need a good catch wrestling dvd set.

Kframe

Kframe

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Ok, my new coach has a background in a lot of different things and catch wrestling is one of them. I want to supplement my training, with dvd's so I can learn more about the art.

Problem is, I have found 2 sources of dvd's. The issue is, one source somes from Tony Cecchine and the other From scientific wrestling(the complete package) BOTH sides of the catch world are busy claiming each other is a fraud.

So, which side should I get from? I don't care about the politics, I only care about which one has the best instructional quality and authentic moves. I wish to get a full package, not just one or 2 dvds. Whose is the best?
 
Scientific Wrestling puts out DVDs of coaches with proven wrestling backgrounds (Wade Schalles, Mark Schultz, Billy Robinson etc). They also filmed Josh Barnett's 2 DVDs.

Tony is Tony.

Figure it out and make your choice.
 
Thing is, I know next to nothing about the history of catch, nor the politics. From what I can gleam from the internet you have Jake Shannon(who puts out scientific wrestling) and Tony Cecchine. With Jake Shannon saying that Tony is a fraud, and Tony says that Jake Shannon is a fraud.

I have never heard of the people you mentioned. SO from my perspective, how can I tell who is legit and not?
 
Kframe said:
Thing is, I know next to nothing about the history of catch, nor the politics. From what I can gleam from the internet you have Jake Shannon(who puts out scientific wrestling) and Tony Cecchine. With Jake Shannon saying that Tony is a fraud, and Tony says that Jake Shannon is a fraud.

I have never heard of the people you mentioned. SO from my perspective, how can I tell who is legit and not?
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Wade schalls is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. Mark Schultz is too and a BJJ black belt and was known for getting the double wrist lock ( kimura) restricted in wrestling due to wrecking someone with it at the Olympics. Billy Robinson trained Josh Barnett and Sakuraba.

You need to brush up on your wrestling.
 
Kframe said:
Thing is, I know next to nothing about the history of catch, nor the politics. From what I can gleam from the internet you have Jake Shannon(who puts out scientific wrestling) and Tony Cecchine. With Jake Shannon saying that Tony is a fraud, and Tony says that Jake Shannon is a fraud.

I have never heard of the people you mentioned. SO from my perspective, how can I tell who is legit and not?
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First of all, I'm sorry you have to live in Northeast IN (Fort Wayne, perhaps? I'm from Bloomington). I think the Scientific Wrestling folks KJ mentioned are all good, I can't speak about Tony vs. Jake, but you might want to check out Erik Paulson's CSW stuff as well. I don't know the quality of the vids, but he's a very legit instructor.
 
Uchi Mata said:
First of all, I'm sorry you have to live in Northeast IN (Fort Wayne, perhaps? I'm from Bloomington). I think the Scientific Wrestling folks KJ mentioned are all good, I can't speak about Tony vs. Jake, but you might want to check out Erik Paulson's CSW stuff as well. I don't know the quality of the vids, but he's a very legit instructor.
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Paulson is very legit and I believe his stuff is a bit more reasonably priced as well.
 
Yes I do live in Fort Wayne. Not much in the way of anything worth the effort going on. I do in fact need to brush up on wrestling. I have no wrestling experience or background. I found it boring as a child and never watched it or participated in it. Much to my disadvantage.

Ill check out the recommendations, thanks guys.

How is Catch different then BJJ?
 
Kframe said:
Ok, my new coach has a background in a lot of different things and catch wrestling is one of them. I want to supplement my training, with dvd's so I can learn more about the art.

Problem is, I have found 2 sources of dvd's. The issue is, one source somes from Tony Cecchine and the other From scientific wrestling(the complete package) BOTH sides of the catch world are busy claiming each other is a fraud.

So, which side should I get from? I don't care about the politics, I only care about which one has the best instructional quality and authentic moves. I wish to get a full package, not just one or 2 dvds. Whose is the best?
Click to expand...

Billy Robinson's first set is the best one: WAR catch wrestling . About 4 hours of instruction.
His Double Wrist Lock DVD is also pretty good.
His 3rd set, Catch Wrestling Conceptual Syllabus is really short for the price. Like 40 minutes for $120. There are a couple nuggets but for the price you expect it to be as long as the first set.

Wade Schalles sets are really, really good but they aren't catch wrestling, it's just NCAA wrestling techniques.

The Mark Schultz set is good too but that is also mostly NCAA wrestling except for the Schultz headlock which is a choke and a MMA section which is pretty basic.
 
Kframe said:
Ok, my new coach has a background in a lot of different things and catch wrestling is one of them. I want to supplement my training, with dvd's so I can learn more about the art.

Problem is, I have found 2 sources of dvd's. The issue is, one source somes from Tony Cecchine and the other From scientific wrestling(the complete package) BOTH sides of the catch world are busy claiming each other is a fraud.

So, which side should I get from? I don't care about the politics, I only care about which one has the best instructional quality and authentic moves. I wish to get a full package, not just one or 2 dvds. Whose is the best?
Click to expand...

Erik Paulson.
 
erik paulson is your best bet, not just about catch wrestling but about grappling in general. The man has a bjj black belt, judo black belt, knows catch wrestling, knows how to strike, ect ect. But he says that his style is where catch meets BJJ half way, so it might not be a "pure catch" thing.
 
LOL, what exactly is a "Catch" move?

I would just go for any no gi grappling video. If you take the politics and history out, Catch wrestling is just submission wresting.

When people think "catch wrestling video" what exactly are they expecting to see that they wouldn't find in a different sport?
 
Calibur said:
LOL, what exactly is a "Catch" move?

I would just go for any no gi grappling video. If you take the politics and history out, Catch wrestling is just submission wresting.

When people think "catch wrestling video" what exactly are they expecting to see that they wouldn't find in a different sport?
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top centric wrestling based style
 
If we agree Catch is a wrestling based art, Schalles' sets though a focus on pinning are essential for positioning and getting people on their back who resist going there. Outside of using the 'turtle' to go to guard, Schalles' concepts of attacking the defensive wrestler, or countering the offensive wrestler will give you a solid grounding, especially as there isn't the same time limits for working on the ground in the Catch sport that's trying to be brought back, versus the time on the ground allowed in Scholastic or Freestyle wrestling. His stuff on backpoints are only useful for scholastic wrestling, but his stuff on breakdowns, turns, tilts, half-nelson, chickenwing (arm-bar) and cradles are useful across the board.

Robinson's war set goes into this further with the added submission element, and also the throws and takedowns done in the Wigan style he learnt.

Jake Shannon should at most be seen as a Catch version of Budo Jake, with Scientific Wrestling doing some exclusive DVDs like Budo videos do (eg the Jeff Glover, Bill Cooper stuff). Jake doesn't coach in these videos, other than being a demonstration or 'uke' for Robinson's instruction(because Robinson is relatively crippled).

Tony's the only one to claim expertise and mastery, but if you ask Billy Wicks guys like John Huskey or Jon Strickland, they'll say he's full of shit. Wicks and his guys have no busienss connection to Scientific Wrestling either.

If your interest is in catch based Submission Grappling, than as mentioned by others Erik Paulson's CSW stuff is worth checking out since its a hybrid of his Shooto-Catch, BJJ, Judo and Lancashire Catch background. But he's not Scientific Wrestling which is why I didn't bring his name up (I think only his Neckbreaker set is sold at Scientific Wrestling, but that's advanced facebars and neckcranks which should be done by more experienced grapplers who won't spazz out like newbies).
 
So it looks like scientific wrestling is the way for me go then. Thanks for the information, and break down. I am amazed at the amount of politics in it.
 
Calibur said:
LOL, what exactly is a "Catch" move?

I would just go for any no gi grappling video. If you take the politics and history out, Catch wrestling is just submission wresting.

When people think "catch wrestling video" what exactly are they expecting to see that they wouldn't find in a different sport?
Click to expand...
Different perspective. Holds instead of positions. Greater emphasis on riding, leg rides, and turnovers vs turtle/quarters.

Not much different from scholastic wrestling but with submissions integrated.

Bigger emphasis on standing up to escape than BJJ or judo or sambo is a big one.
 
Right, scholastic and freestyle wrestling that we're familiar with came from Catch. FILA were the ones who renamed Catch to 'Freestyle', and went through stripping down the sport to what we have today. What's happened to Judo over the last century (less focus on Newaza, more on Tachiwaza, IJF stripping down the sport) is the same that happened to competitive wrestling, through both FILA and the NCAA.

Both are warning signs of what could well happen to BJJ were it to become an Olympic sport. BJJ benefited from being isolated from the changes that happened to the rest of Judo.

Anyway, kind of off topic, but thought I'd throw in my 10 cents.
 
One dvd instructional that I have that really, really helped me out was "Josh Barnett's Punishing Rides". Barnett basically goes over numerous riding positions and basically shows you how to really, really make life suck for the guy on bottom.

He doesn't so much explain submissions, but instead says something like, well from a single leg ride from the back I can do A, B, C, and D and he goes through the submissions quickly. He shows a huge variety of submissions from each position and it is all very catch wrestling based. Lots of weird toeholds, face cranks, neck cranks etc.

A lot of it is honestly very, very useful for someone who never wrestled. I never learned how to do a spiral ride in BJJ and there is more to back control than throwing in your hooks or getting a body triangle.
 
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