Leg Sweeps and Throws: MuayThai vs Sanda/Sanshou

[ThatCasualFan]

Which one has the best sweeps and throws? Also, i have seen that leg sweeps and throws after clinching is quite common in mt fights, yet, i have not seen this happenning many times in mma promotions like the UFC.

What makes these types of techniques not common amongst ufc fighters?

Some videos so you guys can compare each style:

SANDA


SOME SWEEPS AND THROWS AT COMPETITIONS


MUAYTHAI

 

[Hagelslag2]

What makes these types of techniques not common amongst ufc fighters?

Well, no UFC fighter has actual good Muay Thai, so there's that. Before Mir fought Overeem he did an interview in which he said he thought the MT clinch was just grabbing a dude around the neck. When he actually started training the MT clinch he figured out pretty quickly that that was far from the case and that he really needed that skill to have a change against Overeem. That's a man saying that, who had been in the game for close to a millennium.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Sanda allows a bunch of throws that MT doesn't, so naturally Sanda fighters will generally be better at such throws, and MT fighters will be better at the select sweeps and throws that are emphasized in MT.

MT sweeps are infrequent in MMA because 1. in general the level of MT in MMA is very low, and 2. there are much more takedowns allowed in MMA so it would be a statistical anomaly if MT throws were common in MMA.

Sanda throws are fairly common in MMA considering one of their main attacks is the kick catch to double leg. If you dont count that and only think of Judo style throws, of course it will be less common considering you are using more specific criteria.

 

[Will Samuelson]

Sanda wrestling is primitive. Western fighters already have better wrestling, takedowns and throws than Sanda guys. They also have better clinch than Thai guys because of Judo.

Well this is misleading. I won't say WRONG.
Wrestling and Judo are excellent but Thai & Sanda sweeps/trips/throws are very specific to the momentum of the kicks and striking footwork. It is much more fluid and in fact we saw Cung Le showing that off several times.
I'd also seen Anderson do simple Ankle trips from kick catches and Mighty Mouse transition from Plum to leg hold.
Yes, you can learn this in grappling but you don't drill it over and over like you do in Muay Thai or Sanda.
Which is why the excitement for me is of the Asian market and ONE, where they might bring in some peak level Thai boxers to show the difference.

 

[aerius]

Well, no UFC fighter has actual good Muay Thai, so there's that.

Except Valentina Shevchenko, and she's used sweeps, trips, and dumps on pretty much all her opponents. The leg sweep off the caught kick she used against Nunes and Holm was textbook Muay Thai as is the way she uses direction reversals in the clinch to dump or take down her opponents. There's a bunch of techniques she's used in Muay Thai that she hasn't broken out yet and I don't think I've seen anyone in MMA use some of those moves yet. 5:09 and 7:40 for some of her leg sweep and clinch dump sequences, and there are more scattered throughout the highlight video.



But other than her, yeah, the understanding of Muay Thai in the UFC is pretty bad. Matt Brown and Mighty Mouse are among the few I can think of who can transition to and work from something other than the double collar tie in the clinch, everyone else still goes for the double collar tie as if it's the one ultimate weapon or something. It isn't, but they keep trying for it and getting stalled out, it's almost hilarious at times.

 

[Cocakillbana]

Yeah, Shevchenko is pretty good. It was apparent she knew what she was doing even before much happened in her fight with Holm. Passed the presentation test.

 

[UWanaPlayDaGame]

Except Valentina Shevchenko, and she's used sweeps, trips, and dumps on pretty much all her opponents. The leg sweep off the caught kick she used against Nunes and Holm was textbook Muay Thai as is the way she uses direction reversals in the clinch to dump or take down her opponents. There's a bunch of techniques she's used in Muay Thai that she hasn't broken out yet and I don't think I've seen anyone in MMA use some of those moves yet. 5:09 and 7:40 for some of her leg sweep and clinch dump sequences, and there are more scattered throughout the highlight video.

Valentina is a beast in the clinch. her MT fights are funny she just ragdolls girls like they're children. I think she would be ufc champion if she rematched Nunes in a 5 rounder now.

 

[ThatCasualFan]

Except Valentina Shevchenko, and she's used sweeps, trips, and dumps on pretty much all her opponents. The leg sweep off the caught kick she used against Nunes and Holm was textbook Muay Thai as is the way she uses direction reversals in the clinch to dump or take down her opponents. There's a bunch of techniques she's used in Muay Thai that she hasn't broken out yet and I don't think I've seen anyone in MMA use some of those moves yet. 5:09 and 7:40 for some of her leg sweep and clinch dump sequences, and there are more scattered throughout the highlight video.



But other than her, yeah, the understanding of Muay Thai in the UFC is pretty bad. Matt Brown and Mighty Mouse are among the few I can think of who can transition to and work from something other than the double collar tie in the clinch, everyone else still goes for the double collar tie as if it's the one ultimate weapon or something. It isn't, but they keep trying for it and getting stalled out, it's almost hilarious at times.

Hm.. i watched that fight but did not pay attention to that. Heres a leg sweep she did against Holm.

 

[Hagelslag2]

Except Valentina Shevchenko

You are absolutely right, completely overlooked her.

 

[heavenly kaghan]

Sanda wrestling is primitive. Western fighters already have better wrestling, takedowns and throws than Sanda guys. They also have better clinch than Thai guys because of Judo.

There are lots of Sanda wrestling moves that are not in freestyle. It isn't primitive, its just a different style designed for a specific rule set. Sanda wrestling is designed to quickly take someone down while you remain standing; that's the only way you score a clean takedown and the opponent only has to be on one knee for the throw to score. There are lots of fast throws (many are counters) designed only to throw opponents off balance and nothing else. In MMA wrestling, a takedown is only clean when you land with a superior position after going to the ground with them. I have entered BJJ tournaments with a Sanda mentality before, tripped them and walked away, only to have it not score. I had a match with a collegiate wrestler, I tripped him twice on his knee, but it didn't score. The game simply has a different focus.

 

[SuperLuigi]

There are lots of Sanda wrestling moves that are not in freestyle. It isn't primitive, its just a different style designed for a specific rule set. Sanda wrestling is designed to quickly take someone down while you remain standing; that's the only way you score a clean takedown and the opponent only has to be on one knee for the throw to score. There are lots of fast throws (many are counters) designed only to throw opponents off balance and nothing else. In MMA wrestling, a takedown is only clean when you land with a superior position after going to the ground with them. I have entered BJJ tournaments with a Sanda mentality before, tripped them and walked away, only to have it not score. I had a match with a collegiate wrestler, I tripped him twice on his knee, but it didn't score. The game simply has a different focus.

I always find your posts insightful dude! Have you been keeping up on the Chinese KB scene? A guy in Kunlun scored 3 KOs in one night. Btw I'm pretty sure that Tat guy is troll account.

 

[Kanka]

When one troll gets banned, 2 trolls resurrect. How weird?