Left hook help

[YellowBomber]

Hey guys i just started boxing and have read about throwing your left hook with palm facing the ground which supposedly is safer for your wrist and also you can throw a longer ranged hook this way.

However i have tried it and it hurts a bit when i land it on my smaller 2 knuckles, it also feel like my shoulders might dislocate if i throw it too hard. I have resorted to throwing it light but with speed to prevent any serious injuries. Was hoping for some advice from you old timers on how to fix this or perhaps some in depth left hook instructional video?

By the way i can throw it palm facing me totally fine.
Thanks in advance!

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Just practice it palm facing you on the heavy bag and you can do palm facing the ground in sparring when you need to go longer range. I dont think the heavy bag is a good device to practice the palm down hook on if you're using power. Maybe just do those lightly- definitely don't keep doing long hooks on the heavybag. If anything hurts your joints in training, then don't keep doing it, that's not the right way to train it- that goes for everything.


You could also practice the palm down hook on other lighter bags (double-end, etc.) just to get used to the distance difference. Practice both types.

 

[YellowBomber]

Just practice it palm facing you on the heavy bag and you can do palm facing the ground in sparring when you need to go longer range. I dont think the heavy bag is a good device to practice the palm down hook on if you're using power. Maybe just do those lightly- definitely don't keep doing long hooks on the heavybag. If anything hurts your joints in training, then don't keep doing it, that's not the right way to train it- that goes for everything.


You could also practice the palm down hook on other lighter bags (double-end, etc.) just to get used to the distance difference. Practice both types.

Hey reyes thanks for the advice i think i'll stop trying it on the heavy bag for now. Will the aqua bag be a good alternative to practice it on?

Another thing is I can't really find a satisfactory explanation of how the range is longer for the palm down hook. Is it supposed to be thrown with a wider angle at the elbows? Because from the videos i've watched from searching through the forum like russ amber and freddie roach's explanation they all ask for the hook to be thrown with a 90 degree angle at the elbow with the elbow following through the hook. I could've misunderstood them as well, hope the more experienced guys can clarify

 

[PivotPunch]

You always connect with your index finger and middle finger knuckle whether you throw vertical or horizontal. I don't think it's safe for the wrist to me it's much MUCh harder on the wrists and I can't hit a bag full power with it for a long time.

But it's a good punch and you should be able to throw it both ways. Palm down hooks are especially useful at a very long range but you can throw it at any range just like the palm facing you hook.

It's easier to throw a long palm down hong without winding up because by turning your hand that way your elbow lifts up automaticaly so most of the time that hook will be shorter (not range wise) and quicker

 

[ssullivan80]

Hey guys i just started boxing and have read about throwing your left hook with palm facing the ground which supposedly is safer for your wrist and also you can throw a longer ranged hook this way.

However i have tried it and it hurts a bit when i land it on my smaller 2 knuckles, it also feel like my shoulders might dislocate if i throw it too hard. I have resorted to throwing it light but with speed to prevent any serious injuries. Was hoping for some advice from you old timers on how to fix this or perhaps some in depth left hook instructional video?

By the way i can throw it palm facing me totally fine.
Thanks in advance!

Regardless of whether your throwing it palm up or down, if it's putting that much strain on your shoulder (absent prior injuries) it's probably your technique that's the issue. Most likely, this is due to rolling your shoulder forward (strain on rotator cuff) during the punch and/or rolling your back when you throw it. Try this: from your boxing stance, set up like your loading up your left hook then hold your arm straight out to the side, level with your shoulders with the thumb up and bend the arm at the elbow 90degrees, then turn your palm down. If your elbow is lifting when you turn your palm down, then you are rolling your shoulder forward and that's probably what's putting the strain on your shoulder. You've got to pull your shoulders back and keep your back as flat as you can when you throw that lead hook. Focus less on the hand positioning (thumb up vs palm down) and more on keeping your shoulders pulled back and on a level plane as your throwing your hook (dipping the rear shoulder throwing the hook makes it tougher to keep from rolling the shoulder forward).

pull your shoulders back, keeping your back flat (imagine pinching a quarter in between your shoulder blades) and try the same drill, if your pulling those shoulders back and keeping your back flat then your elbow (arm bent at 90degrees) will stay in same place, thumb up or palm down and that's the position you want your shoulders to be in when you throw and land the lead hook.

ANYTIME YOUR ELBOW GET'S ABOVE YOUR HAND ON YOUR HOOKS, YOUR PUTTING MORE STRAIN ON YOUR SHOULDER.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

Hey reyes thanks for the advice i think i'll stop trying it on the heavy bag for now. Will the aqua bag be a good alternative to practice it on?

The aqua bag looks soft but you can hurt your hand on it pretty easily if you're not careful (I've done it), and even though it deforms it still puts up a lot of resistance during impact (notice that the bigger ones tend to not move hardly at all). Whichever bag you use, (even a regular heavybag) just be careful to practice it in a measured way and intensity level that doesn't hurt yourself for whichever technique you are doing.

Another thing is I can't really find a satisfactory explanation of how the range is longer for the palm down hook. Is it supposed to be thrown with a wider angle at the elbows? Because from the videos i've watched from searching through the forum like russ amber and freddie roach's explanation they all ask for the hook to be thrown with a 90 degree angle at the elbow with the elbow following through the hook. I could've misunderstood them as well, hope the more experienced guys can clarify

There are long hooks and shorter hooks. The basic hook is 90 degrees but you can lengthen it or shorten it somewhat. Of course if they teach you the hook they're going to teach the normal textbook one and not some tweaked variation to learn from. You should also mostly practice the textbook way most of the time, imo, and it should translate just fine to the little variations you might do in sparring.

 

[YellowBomber]

Regardless of whether your throwing it palm up or down, if it's putting that much strain on your shoulder (absent prior injuries) it's probably your technique that's the issue. Most likely, this is due to rolling your shoulder forward (strain on rotator cuff) during the punch and/or rolling your back when you throw it. Try this: from your boxing stance, set up like your loading up your left hook then hold your arm straight out to the side, level with your shoulders with the thumb up and bend the arm at the elbow 90degrees, then turn your palm down. If your elbow is lifting when you turn your palm down, then you are rolling your shoulder forward and that's probably what's putting the strain on your shoulder. You've got to pull your shoulders back and keep your back as flat as you can when you throw that lead hook. Focus less on the hand positioning (thumb up vs palm down) and more on keeping your shoulders pulled back and on a level plane as your throwing your hook (dipping the rear shoulder throwing the hook makes it tougher to keep from rolling the shoulder forward).

pull your shoulders back, keeping your back flat (imagine pinching a quarter in between your shoulder blades) and try the same drill, if your pulling those shoulders back and keeping your back flat then your elbow (arm bent at 90degrees) will stay in same place, thumb up or palm down and that's the position you want your shoulders to be in when you throw and land the lead hook.

ANYTIME YOUR ELBOW GET'S ABOVE YOUR HAND ON YOUR HOOKS, YOUR PUTTING MORE STRAIN ON YOUR SHOULDER.

Always thought that shoulders should be "hunched" in a fighting posture turns out that was wrong. I find that there is a natural tendency for me to slouch my back even when im going about my daily routine and this bad posture is showing when i throw punches. 24 years of bad posture surely isnt helping haha.

Heading to the gym later today to try this out. I've been reading the thread about posture and positioning and i find that a lot of what you have said is also discussed there. Should the pinching a quarter between your shoulder blades concept be maintained at all times? Also Is there an exercise that helps with fixing the rolling of shoulders forward?

Will update you guys later thanks!

 

[PivotPunch]

Regardless of whether your throwing it palm up or down, if it's putting that much strain on your shoulder (absent prior injuries) it's probably your technique that's the issue. Most likely, this is due to rolling your shoulder forward (strain on rotator cuff) during the punch and/or rolling your back when you throw it. Try this: from your boxing stance, set up like your loading up your left hook then hold your arm straight out to the side, level with your shoulders with the thumb up and bend the arm at the elbow 90degrees, then turn your palm down. If your elbow is lifting when you turn your palm down, then you are rolling your shoulder forward and that's probably what's putting the strain on your shoulder. You've got to pull your shoulders back and keep your back as flat as you can when you throw that lead hook. Focus less on the hand positioning (thumb up vs palm down) and more on keeping your shoulders pulled back and on a level plane as your throwing your hook (dipping the rear shoulder throwing the hook makes it tougher to keep from rolling the shoulder forward).

pull your shoulders back, keeping your back flat (imagine pinching a quarter in between your shoulder blades) and try the same drill, if your pulling those shoulders back and keeping your back flat then your elbow (arm bent at 90degrees) will stay in same place, thumb up or palm down and that's the position you want your shoulders to be in when you throw and land the lead hook.

ANYTIME YOUR ELBOW GET'S ABOVE YOUR HAND ON YOUR HOOKS, YOUR PUTTING MORE STRAIN ON YOUR SHOULDER.

I don't agree that you should artificially push your shulders back. That's an unnatural movement and I can't think of any high level boxers who punch that way. Even Sinisters guys who fight with very correct posture don't appear to press their shoulde rblades together. it's like doing a row and trying to push your shoulders forward.
It robs you of power and range.
Boxing is something that will reinforce bad posture depending your your stance with Sinisters guys less so than with so meone who fights like Golovkin. But all pushing the shoulder back does to me is rob me of several inches of reach and it limits my power. I have tried it.

Wlad has a great left hook and is like Golovkin on the side of bad posture overall at least in his boxing stance when he walks he seems to have good posture. And at around 2:30 when they show replays you can see his shoulder blades are far from pressed together. He also doesn't have any shoulder issues that I know of.

Neither is Golovkin who yes does also have bad posture mechnically speaking when fighting but look at how far his shoulder is forward here. And he doesn't have any shoulder issues either.

There is a reason your shoulder blades can move and that your shoulder isn't a fixed socket. it's just not natural to artifically pull your shoulder back when punching and not worth it.

I am of the opinion that you should compensate for the forward posture of boxing outside the ring by doing stuff like pull ups, and rows. Compensate for it outside the ring.

@YellowBomber If I was you I'd try rotator cuff exercises and pull ups. Maybe even benching/pushups and overhead press and stuff like that.

 

[YellowBomber]

Ok, so just got back from the gym and tried out @ssullivan80 's suggestion i did not really squeeze my shoulder blades together very tightly but just enough for my shoulders and head to form a line and this seemed to help a lot. Compared to before where the alignment of my head and shoulders i would describe as more of a curve which i have read is really bad posture. The bad news is that this is when i am isolating the left hook and throwing it 1 hook at a time. After trying to add a couple of punches for a combination i notice that my bad posture comes back and it is a constant struggle to throw punches in bunches while maintaining that straight line alignment of shoulders

As for @PivotPunch 's suggestion i agree if you bring your shoulders all the way back the alignment of head and shoulders will form a curve the opposite of my bad posture which is equally bad i think hahaha

This is an image of JMM throwing the same punch and sinister has said before that he has very good posture. His back looks a lot straighter than that image of GGG's you linked. This is what i'm hoping to achieve eventually not sure what is the best way to go about doing it though. Not very sure if my understanding on this topic is right though so don't take my word for it!
.

 

[PivotPunch]

@YellowBomber

Maybe it also depends on your anatomy. But I had a shoulder injury and I can hit bags the way i do without my shoulder bothering me.

On stance and posture there are 100 different philosophies in fighting so I don't say I'm right but I just never see any good punchers actively retracting their shoulders and in the case of Golovkin and others their shoulder are very far forward even.

Yeah JMM hasn't even got good posture in a non boxing sense and he brings his shoulder forward as well when punching

His back isn't straight and his head is put forward and down. Pretty much the most stereotypical boxer posutre there is. I think the matter of posture is a complex thing and has also to with balance, your body being firm and an inegrity and what Sinister likes to point out level shoulders when punching.


Not even talking about the rounded posture most boxers fight out of but the shoulder blades going forward is a natural motion and pulling them back artifically isn't natural.
When you do pushups try pulling your shoulders back squeezing your shoulder blades together and look in a mirror what you will see is that your shoulder are pushed back and your back rounds and if you you now push forward how you would do pushups naturally your back is much flatter and straighter because obviously your shoulder have to push against the force coming from infront. With straight punch especially it's the same and your shoulders need to push against the impact.

Keeping your shoudlers in a neutral position is one thing but pulling them actively back like many do on a bench press where you have the bench to press your shoulders against clearly limits my power and range at least when I do it

 

[YellowBomber]

@PivotPunch yep im not gonna pull them back further than the level position. Also agree that there are many philosophies on posture i wouldn't even know about most of them. Just gonna try and maintain that level shoulder position instead of my usual slouching one for now while i dive deeper into the archives of sherdog hahaha.

Also the rotator cuff exercises you suggested would probably be good to implement into my workout. I have been doing more pushups lately and swim freestyle regularly before picking up boxing which i feel has helped me a lot in preventing shoulder injuries.

By the way do you have any regular go to channels/instructional videos would like to expand my boxing knowledge more. This video really taught me how to pivot the lead hook which has added ridiculous power to it but stuff like this is hard to come by (0:25). I need more.

 

[ssullivan80]

@YellowBomber


Yeah JMM hasn't even got good posture in a non boxing sense and he brings his shoulder forward as well when punching

Keeping your shoudlers in a neutral position is one thing but pulling them actively back like many do on a bench press where you have the bench to press your shoulders against clearly limits my power and range at least when I do it

I'm not saying don't bring your shoulders forward, but there's a difference between rotating the shoulders and rolling the shoulder forward. What your describing here with JMM is rotating his shoulders, he's turning his shoulders through his core and his back is awful flat from what I am seeing. Rolling the shoulders is different and is what I am describing (Brandon Rios). Think of the motion your shoulder makes when arm wrestling, that's "rolling" the shoulder forward given arm wrestling doesn't allow you the same core engagement, also why arm wrestling often causes shoulder, elbow and rotator cuff injuries.

As for your statement regarding the bench press, pulling the shoulders back is what allows you to press heavier weight with less risk of injury. Same concept applies in the lead hook, your using the larger muscles in your back to keep the "load" or "impact" from putting all the stress on the smaller stabilizing muscles and joints. The equivalent on a bench press would be flaring your elbows out, which puts more strain on the shoulders vs keeping them tighter and closer into your body spreads the weight more evenly across the larger muscles in your upper back.

As for how this applies when throwing a lead hook, yes you do want to keep your shoulders and upper body relaxed and in a natural position throughout the motion of "swinging" your hook. It's at just moment your making impact you want to pull your shoulders back and flatten them out, which will actually make your lead hook much more solid vs whippy..... per se.

 

[ssullivan80]

I don't agree that you should artificially push your shulders back. That's an unnatural movement and I can't think of any high level boxers who punch that way. Even Sinisters guys who fight with very correct posture don't appear to press their shoulde rblades together. it's like doing a row and trying to push your shoulders forward.
It robs you of power and range.
Boxing is something that will reinforce bad posture depending your your stance with Sinisters guys less so than with so meone who fights like Golovkin. But all pushing the shoulder back does to me is rob me of several inches of reach and it limits my power. I have tried it.

Wlad has a great left hook and is like Golovkin on the side of bad posture overall at least in his boxing stance when he walks he seems to have good posture. And at around 2:30 when they show replays you can see his shoulder blades are far from pressed together. He also doesn't have any shoulder issues that I know of.

Neither is Golovkin who yes does also have bad posture mechnically speaking when fighting but look at how far his shoulder is forward here. And he doesn't have any shoulder issues either.
.

Per statements above:

"it's like doing a row and trying to push your shoulders forward."

Exactly, and for the same reason you pull your shoulders back when rowing is why you should do the same on a lead hook. A hook is not a punch your "pushing", a well thrown hook is a punch your pulling through the target.

As for Wlad, his left hook is hardly one of his better punches, sure it'll put a guy on his ass, but so will his jab. He's a big powerful fighter that touches a guy with any shot can do real damage. Nonetheless he's certainly not a guy I'd use to describe a good technical lead hook (right cross, different story) . DeLahoya, Trinidad, Donaire, Herol Graham, Danny Garcia, etc....... better examples of guys with venom in their lead hook.

And as for GGG, he's got excellent posture IMO. Wouldn't be able to generate the kind of power he does without it. In fact, what his trainer Able Sanchez emphasizes more than anything else is "keeping the shoulders on a level plane"......... and GGG does keep his back flat and his shoulders on a level plane through his shots exceptionally well (see the KO of Macklin, self explanatory). Brendan Ingle was another trainer who constantly enforced and worked to ingrain these traits into his fighters, who were well known for being very powerful punchers that weren't HW's (particularly with hooks n uppercuts).

Here ya go: IMO, Trinidad had one of the best examples of a perfect lead hook I can think of. Pay close attention to his posture.

 

[a guy]

In this thread: apparently Golovkin and Marquez have bad posture.

The things I read in this forum sometimes...

 

[PivotPunch]

I'm not saying don't bring your shoulders forward, but there's a difference between rotating the shoulders and rolling the shoulder forward. What your describing here with JMM is rotating his shoulders, he's turning his shoulders through his core and his back is awful flat from what I am seeing. Rolling the shoulders is different and is what I am describing (Brandon Rios). Think of the motion your shoulder makes when arm wrestling, that's "rolling" the shoulder forward given arm wrestling doesn't allow you the same core engagement, also why arm wrestling often causes shoulder, elbow and rotator cuff injuries.

As for your statement regarding the bench press, pulling the shoulders back is what allows you to press heavier weight with less risk of injury. Same concept applies in the lead hook, your using the larger muscles in your back to keep the "load" or "impact" from putting all the stress on the smaller stabilizing muscles and joints. The equivalent on a bench press would be flaring your elbows out, which puts more strain on the shoulders vs keeping them tighter and closer into your body spreads the weight more evenly across the larger muscles in your upper back.

As for how this applies when throwing a lead hook, yes you do want to keep your shoulders and upper body relaxed and in a natural position throughout the motion of "swinging" your hook. It's at just moment your making impact you want to pull your shoulders back and flatten them out, which will actually make your lead hook much more solid vs whippy..... per se.

The bench is different becaue your shozulder lay pressed against the bench that is not the case with a punch it's like doing a pushup with your shoudler blades retracted just do it while looking in a mirror and you won't see that it's not supposed to be done that way.

I know what you mean but that's still not the case you can clearly see the muscles and shoudler blades on the back in the pics and the video I posted. The shoulder blades are clearly not retracted.

Per statements above:

"it's like doing a row and trying to push your shoulders forward."

Exactly, and for the same reason you pull your shoulders back when rowing is why you should do the same on a lead hook. A hook is not a punch your "pushing", a well thrown hook is a punch your pulling through the target.

As for Wlad, his left hook is hardly one of his better punches, sure it'll put a guy on his ass, but so will his jab. He's a big powerful fighter that touches a guy with any shot can do real damage. Nonetheless he's certainly not a guy I'd use to describe a good technical lead hook (right cross, different story) . DeLahoya, Trinidad, Donaire, Herol Graham, Danny Garcia, etc....... better examples of guys with venom in their lead hook.

And as for GGG, he's got excellent posture IMO. Wouldn't be able to generate the kind of power he does without it. In fact, what his trainer Able Sanchez emphasizes more than anything else is "keeping the shoulders on a level plane"......... and GGG does keep his back flat and his shoulders on a level plane through his shots exceptionally well (see the KO of Macklin, self explanatory). Brendan Ingle was another trainer who constantly enforced and worked to ingrain these traits into his fighters, who were well known for being very powerful punchers that weren't HW's (particularly with hooks n uppercuts).

Here ya go: IMO, Trinidad had one of the best examples of a perfect lead hook I can think of. Pay close attention to his posture.

Wlad's best punch his his left hook at least his best power punch virtually everytime he throws it he knocks his opponents out or down he's just hesitant to let his hands got. He knocked out Ray Austin with only his left hand, he knocked down Povetkin with the left hook, the Chambers ko, the Pulev ko his best kos come from that punch. It's without a doubt his best power punch and in his younger days it was probably his best punch overall before he developed the jab.

Yes keeping the shoulders on a level field. i said that. But in what world does Golovkin have a flat back? He has the upper back posture of a 80 year old when he's in his fighting stance.

Even Sinister agrees with me that Wlad and Golovkin have bad posture as in upper back posture. He thinks that Golovkin compensates for it by always throwing his weight forward or something like that I forgot his exact words

In this thread: apparently Golovkin and Marquez have bad posture.

The things I read in this forum sometimes...

I said mechanically from a non boxing standpoint and they absolutely have. Where are the straight backs anyone talks about wtf how can you claim they have.

They have good posture in the boxing world where different aspects of posture matter and they do them well like keeping the shoulders on a level plane which I said but if you walk around like Marquez or Golovkin fight you will have scoliosis in your early 20s

 

[a guy]

The bench is different becaue your shozulder lay pressed against the bench that is not the case with a punch it's like doing a pushup with your shoudler blades retracted just do it while looking in a mirror and you won't see that it's not supposed to be done that way.

I know what you mean but that's still not the case you can clearly see the muscles and shoudler blades on the back in the pics and the video I posted. The shoulder blades are clearly not retracted.



Wlad's best punch his his left hook at least his best power punch virtually everytime he throws it he knocks his opponents out or down he's just hesitant to let his hands got. He knocked out Ray Austin with only his left hand, he knocked down Povetkin with the left hook, the Chambers ko, the Pulev ko his best kos come from that punch. It's without a doubt his best power punch and in his younger days it was probably his best punch overall before he developed the jab.

Yes keeping the shoulders on a level field. i said that. But in what world does Golovkin have a flat back? He has the upper back posture of a 80 year old when he's in his fighting stance.

Even Sinister agrees with me that Wlad and Golovkin have bad posture as in upper back posture. He thinks that Golovkin compensates for it by always throwing his weight forward or something like that I forgot his exact words



I said mechanically from a non boxing standpoint and they absolutely have. Where are the straight backs anyone talks about wtf how can you claim they have.

They have good posture in the boxing world where different aspects of posture matter and they do them well like keeping the shoulders on a level plane which I said but if you walk around like Marquez or Golovkin fight you will have scoliosis in your early 20s

Their backs are straight. Of course you wouldn't walk around with your chin tucked...

Yea, GGG's shoulders come a little too far forward sometimes. One aspect of his posture is sometimes flawed. He has good posture and so does Marquez. You're way overselling how bad their posture is, and also arguing against retracting the shoulders by saying it doesn't help to pull them back past neutral in response to Sully giving a cue when the OP already said it helped a lot. Cues aren't meant to be taken literally.

 

[YellowBomber]

@ssullivan80 Wow what a left hook he's got. I tried to get a good look at his posture while watching the video at 0.5 speed and noticed that the angle between his upper arm and body is always slightly less than 90 degrees. I think the problem i have been having is because i try to throw my hooks with my shoulder at a 90 degree angle which results in the rolling of shoulders. Hope you can clarify this for me

Your explanation for squeezing the shoulder blades make a lot of sense now it is i think similar to the way using your hips to move is better than using your back because of the larger muscle groups. Have yet to try squeezing my shoulder blades to the maximum will do so next time i hit the gym.

Btw anyone know if Sinister ever got around to doing that left hook tutorial video can't seem to find anything on it and lots of old videos are gone now.

 

[ssullivan80]

@ssullivan80 Wow what a left hook he's got. I tried to get a good look at his posture while watching the video at 0.5 speed and noticed that the angle between his upper arm and body is always slightly less than 90 degrees. I think the problem i have been having is because i try to throw my hooks with my shoulder at a 90 degree angle which results in the rolling of shoulders. Hope you can clarify this for me

Your explanation for squeezing the shoulder blades make a lot of sense now it is i think similar to the way using your hips to move is better than using your back because of the larger muscle groups. Have yet to try squeezing my shoulder blades to the maximum will do so next time i hit the gym.

Btw anyone know if Sinister ever got around to doing that left hook tutorial video can't seem to find anything on it and lots of old videos are gone now.

With the elbow just focus on not letting the elbow get higher than the target or point of impact, but ideally you want your elbow traveling on the same plane as the hook THROUGH THE TARGET (vs flaring elbow during the swing). The trick is not to keep the elbow/arm in close to your body as you swing the lead hook and raise it as your fist travels through the target (as if your elbow where going to hit the target after your fist went through it.)

Here ya go, if you can pay attention to what Graham is trying to explain and hear beyond the heavy accent this video should be helpful.

 

[ssullivan80]

Wlad's best punch his his left hook at least his best power punch virtually everytime he throws it he knocks his opponents out or down he's just hesitant to let his hands got. He knocked out Ray Austin with only his left hand, he knocked down Povetkin with the left hook, the Chambers ko, the Pulev ko his best kos come from that punch. It's without a doubt his best power punch and in his younger days it was probably his best punch overall before he developed the jab.

Yes keeping the shoulders on a level field. i said that. But in what world does Golovkin have a flat back? He has the upper back posture of a 80 year old when he's in his fighting stance.

Even Sinister agrees with me that Wlad and Golovkin have bad posture as in upper back posture. He thinks that Golovkin compensates for it by always throwing his weight forward or something like that I forgot his exact words



I said mechanically from a non boxing standpoint and they absolutely have. Where are the straight backs anyone talks about wtf how can you claim they have.

They have good posture in the boxing world where different aspects of posture matter and they do them well like keeping the shoulders on a level plane which I said but if you walk around like Marquez or Golovkin fight you will have scoliosis in your early 20s

I don't know if a single boxing pundit would agree that Wlad's best power punch is his left hook. Again, I never said he couldn't KO someone with his left hook. He's a 6'6, 250pd, strong and athletic HW! He can KO his opponent with any shot. But I would bet the house that the punch his opponents go into the ring with a gameplan to avoid is his right cross (as far as a power punch is concerned, because it's his jab that dictates fights). To quote Emmanuel Steward "His right cross is the hardest in history". Agree with that statement or not, his right cross is responsible for the overwhelming majority of his KO's unlike the other fighters I mentioned. (i.e: Trinidad) who far more often than not, finished fights with the hook.

YOU CAN STILL KEEP YOUR BACK FLAT AND LEAN AT THE WAIST!

As for GGG and JMM not having a "flat back", I think you are interpreting that by saying there backs aren't flat because they are leaning at the waist. You can have a flat back and still be leaning forward. I.E: proper form for a dead lift, yes you lean at the waist but you still keep your back flat vs rolling your shoulders forward and "hunching" over. Same concept here i'm describing with the lead hook. I don't know the context of Sinisters remarks, so i'll not reference them. However, I think you may be confusing poor position with poor posture. Both GGG and JMM have a tendency to get to far forward over their front foot (usually what get's jmm knocked down) and i'm assuming that's what Sinister is referring to. GGG compensates by "shifting", he carries or drags his hip back underneath him when he get's to far forward or too heavy on the opposite hip. If you watch Herol Graham (the guy in the vid just posted) he uses that same technique (shifting) only he doesn't get as far out of position as GGG (leaning forward). Same is true of many of the Ingle trained fighters out of Sheffield.

 

[PivotPunch]

I don't know if a single boxing pundit would agree that Wlad's best power punch is his left hook. Again, I never said he couldn't KO someone with his left hook. He's a 6'6, 250pd, strong and athletic HW! He can KO his opponent with any shot. But I would bet the house that the punch his opponents go into the ring with a gameplan to avoid is his right cross (as far as a power punch is concerned, because it's his jab that dictates fights). To quote Emmanuel Steward "His right cross is the hardest in history". Agree with that statement or not, his right cross is responsible for the overwhelming majority of his KO's unlike the other fighters I mentioned. (i.e: Trinidad) who far more often than not, finished fights with the hook.

YOU CAN STILL KEEP YOUR BACK FLAT AND LEAN AT THE WAIST!

As for GGG and JMM not having a "flat back", I think you are interpreting that by saying there backs aren't flat because they are leaning at the waist. You can have a flat back and still be leaning forward. I.E: proper form for a dead lift, yes you lean at the waist but you still keep your back flat vs rolling your shoulders forward and "hunching" over. Same concept here i'm describing with the lead hook. I don't know the context of Sinisters remarks, so i'll not reference them. However, I think you may be confusing poor position with poor posture. Both GGG and JMM have a tendency to get to far forward over their front foot (usually what get's jmm knocked down) and i'm assuming that's what Sinister is referring to. GGG compensates by "shifting", he carries or drags his hip back underneath him when he get's to far forward or too heavy on the opposite hip. If you watch Herol Graham (the guy in the vid just posted) he uses that same technique (shifting) only he doesn't get as far out of position as GGG (leaning forward). Same is true of many of the Ingle trained fighters out of Sheffield.

I am not confusing it with leaning at the waist. JMMs lower back is flat his neck is completely forward and GGG has a HORRIBLY rounded back. How can you even deny that. If you stand like JMM does in a boxing ring in real life then you will have major neck issues down the line. if you stand like GGG does in fights in real life you will develope a hunchback.

There are tons of fighters with Wlad's size or even bigger ones with not that much power. Like Wlad's brother. Wlad is a physical beast AND he has god given power on top of that. Freddie Roach says Wlad has more raw power than Tyson. he is a tremendous puncher and overall offensive fighter.

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/e...x-probably-thee-hardest-puncher-ever.1181930/

Not that I advocate Naudi but this is ood posture. This is not how 99.999% of all boxers stand during a fight regardless of any forward posture at the hips

This is Golovkin during a punch. You want to tell me his posture looks like Naudi's here?

Are there boxers with worse posture? Sure. But that's in a boxing context where just about everyone is internally rotated upper body wise and hunched forward not good posture in an everyday context. And compared to Sinisters's guys it's bad posture.

I don't advocate actively rolling your shoulder forward but I advocate keeping it relaxed and not actively pulling it backwards -> in a neutral position and it will come forward abit naturally based on the nature of the movement.

The hook is not like a row if it is oyu have long arms, your opponent is much much to close (angle < 90°) depending on the distance and the style of hook it hits very frontal sometimes more sometimes less.

Another great left hooks. The shoulder is too high and too far forward for frazier to be pulling his shoulders back. And in the second pic his left arms is almost wrapped around himself which also only happens if the shoulder goes forward naturally. ANother pic with Tua in the same end position, another great left hooker

Kudryashov argubly the hardest puncher p4p at the moment but surely top 5. His shoulders goes all the way like frazier's and Tua's. Also unlike Golovkin and Marquez he really has upright posture even when fighting ina wqay similar to Sinisters guys. THIS is good posture at least as good as its going to get in a boxing match. And even that isn't as good of a posture as of the pic of Naudi I posted