Learning how to defend myself.

[louis345]

Hi,

I'm a 35 year old male and have not taken any self defense classes in my life. My wife is having twins and I realized I could not properly defend them if there was ever a alteration where violence was necessary. I looked around my area and could not separate the good boxing gyms from the bad. And what I mean by bad, is just a gym for cardio not meant for anything serious. What I am looking for is a great gym that can help me prepare myself in-case I ever have to defend my family. How would anyone in situation go about their selection.

Thanks.

 

[j123]

Get one of these

 

[j123]

Mad props for wanting to protect your kids. There's a big difference between having kids and being a parent. Cheers for being a parent.

Like everybody else, I have my own opinions about self-defense. I've been teaching self-defense for over 30 years. I've been a chemical weapon (pepper, teargas, etc.) instructor as well and I train heavily with firearms. My philosophy goes like this, I want to be the one that tells the story. I don't care about pretty technique or systems or anything else. The bad guy loses and the good guy goes home is all that matters.

You said that you're looking at boxing gyms. A good boxing gym will teach you how to box. That's a great first step. You'll be able to more effectively inflict damage on an opponent. Self-defense though is much more. For self-defense you must train your mind as well. For that reason I would recommend a school that is more self-defense oriented.

A self-defense oriented school will not only teach you how to use your body but will train your mind as well. You will learn to inflict damage in ways that a sport fighting system will never teach you. You will lean to think about self-defense situations in ways that a sport system will not.

The most important thing to keep in mind is that there is by far more garbage being taught than there is effective self-defense technique. Sorry to be negative but it's true. Much of what is taught as self-defense yields little more than a false sense of security. If you train there, constantly evaluate what you're being taught. Never take it at face value. Use your own smarts and bail out if your gut tells you to.

One of the best places to start is a concealed carry class. Even if you have no intention of ever owning a gun. They teach you a lot about when self-defense is justified and how to think in terms of tactical advantage. Really, do this. It will pay big dividends.

As for your actual question, how to tell a good place to train from a bad one, ask questions. Lots of questions. What are you going to teach me? What's your background? Any of your students ever had to use what you teach? How'd it go?

I rambled a bit but I hope that helps. Got specific questions, message me.

I'm in Canada so we're a bit restrictive on the firearms side, but really I'm all for it. Martial arts for some reason are all gung ho for bladed and blunt edged weapons, but for some odd reason have firearms as taboo. In their good old days, bladed weapons was their version of firearms, so really why the taboo on firearms? Things should adapt to the times.

100% on awareness and being keen, I feel alot of so called self defense schools don't teach this or at least don't prioritize this, while keeping the offensive techniques as the main thing. I do get its a business, and the striking, grappling, disarms is the meat and potatoes. Hell, when I teach a striking / MT class and a trial guy walks in, as sad as it is for the school, I know he's not coming back for a day 2 because I'm heavily focused on the basics which is footwork, stance, and 1,2. So its understandable if a guy just gives a lecture on being aware, keen, and avoiding bad spots (drunk, limited lighted place, big group) it won't sell much.

I've only come across one place where the instructor straight up said the disclaimer that what he taught wasn't magic and regardless you're still gonna get clipped against 2+ attackers, and that it's reality, not Hollywood.

Self-defense schools is a huge market scam for women imo. If I were to get a dollar for the number of bullshit I've seen online and in person, I'd be on Forbes list of richest folks in the world.

Saw one turd teach a group of non-athletic, uncoordinated housewives to kick a knife out of a charging attacker as the priority. lol.

 

[theranch]

As j123 has said self defense schools are great in theory but personally i would NEVER trust some "instructor" who tries to sell to you the whole "it's too deadly for the ring" and "it's about my killer mentality" shit when they come from a posh background and have never been in a fight in their fucking life. The scariest guys i have ever met and the ones who win most confrontations are low level pro boxers who know the real dirty tricks (headbutts collar grabs etc.) plus can actually punch a bit too. Boxing will get you in shape improve confidence and give you real experiences of being under pressure with another person trying to hit you. Knife gun and group defense are mostly bullshit unless you have a gun yourself so don't waste time (and probably money) on a snakeoil self defense salesman when boxing does the job for cheaper.

 

[fluffball]

If you need to defend children from a violent attack, boxing is not what you're looking for. Boxing is great for 1v1s in a bar or playground. If someone is trying to kill babies (do you live in South Sudan??) you need a gun and some proper firearm training. At the very least keep a baseball bat by your bed, and with a bat and zero training you can take 99% of martial artists.

 

[CFGroup]

Jeez where do you live?

You got a lot of baby murders in your town?

Ease your mind and Google violent crime rate drops by half since 1990!

Go train to get in shape, but understand your life isn't a TV show or Fox News.

Kids these days!
https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

 

[Hotora86]

7 STEPS FOR SELF-DEFENSE:

0. LIVE AND BE SAFE - this is "step zero" because it's all about your mindset. Your goal in life shouldn't be "to kick ass" or to be the "local badass" or even "to be respected". It should be to live a happy life, to return to your family or significant other in the evening and to stay in good health. Violence can jeopardize those goals so it's best to avoid it.

Thus we come to #1:

1. AVOIDANCE - don't go into dark alleys, seedy bars and places generally known for being dangerous. Simple. You don't want any trouble now, do you?

If avoidance failed and you're in trouble - go to #2:

2. DEESCALATION - in situations of potential conflict stay calm, don't jump to conclusions, don't provoke or aggravate anyone, don't overreact, don't talk back. Apologize if required and leave if possible. Don't stick around out of curiosity either, even if the conflict is unrelated to you - fights tend to spread like fire.

If deescalation failed and someone is in your face - go to #3:

3. GIVE HIM WHAT HE WANTS - if he wants your favorite spot at the bar, let him have it, you can sit elsewhere. If he wants you to apologize, please do, it doesn't cost you a dime. If he wants you to leave, leave. If he wants your wallet, let him have it (especially if he's armed!). Fighting will always cost you more - more trouble, more health, more money (related to the potential loss of health) and more time in jail if you accidentally kill him (which tends to happen way more often than people think).

If you can't give him what he wants and he is only there to fight you - go to step #4:

4. RUN - yes, run the fuck away. Run to your buddies, to your car, to a nearby police station, run to any place where you will be safer than you are now. In most cases the aggressor won't be keen on following you.

If you can't run or have nowhere to run - go to #5:

5. MAKE SOME NOISE - shout for help as loud as you can, you can try shouting "HELP, FIRE" instead of "HELP, POLICE" since people generally react to the 1st and avoid the 2nd. Many assailants are discouraged by the presence of witnesses and will avoid being caught in the act.

If even that failed then go to step #6:

6. STICK TO WHAT YOU KNOW - if you're already fighting don't try anything you've seen but never done. Never did any kicking arts? Don't kick. Never did any grappling arts? Don't grapple. Stick to whatever it is you've learned and trust your reflexes. In a situation of extreme stress your body will naturally fall on what it knows, no sense trying any fancy shit.

If all has failed and you have been beat up or mugged then go to final point #7:

7. LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES - where did it all go wrong? How to avoid the same shit in the future? Really think about that and prepare some solutions. Prevent the same situation from happening. Report to the authorities if necessary - that's what they are for.

Source: personal experience and this excellent post:
http://www.wimsblog.com/2013/04/self-defense-tips-for-men/

 

[Hotora86]

Very well said.

As for step 3... I start all self-defense classes with what I call the heel-toe, heel-toe technique. The faster you do it the better it works. Breaks the ice and sets the tone for the class.

Thank You. I edited the post and running is now step 4 but still a very valid step indeed. A large number of steps in quick succession even.

Similarly as you, when ppl ask me "what should I train for self-defense" I usually answer "running".

 

[Hotora86]

If you need to defend children from a violent attack, boxing is not what you're looking for. Boxing is great for 1v1s in a bar or playground. If someone is trying to kill babies (do you live in South Sudan??) you need a gun and some proper firearm training. At the very least keep a baseball bat by your bed, and with a bat and zero training you can take 99% of martial artists.

Fluffball dropping harsh pearls of wisdom as always, love it.

Also TS, check out Geoff Thompson's "the Fence" concept:
http://www.themartialview.com/geoff-thompsons-fence/

 

[MaxMMA]

Hi,

I'm a 35 year old male and have not taken any self defense classes in my life. My wife is having twins and I realized I could not properly defend them if there was ever a alteration where violence was necessary. I looked around my area and could not separate the good boxing gyms from the bad. And what I mean by bad, is just a gym for cardio not meant for anything serious. What I am looking for is a great gym that can help me prepare myself in-case I ever have to defend my family. How would anyone in situation go about their selection.

Thanks.

Don't let anyone on here try to talk you out of training if self defense is your goal. Everyone always says just get a gun, or they say that regularly training martial arts is a waste of time because you will probably never need it, or that you should just turn tail and run when trouble arises.

Being knowledgeable about unarmed confrontation has proven to be very useful to me, and is a skill that I have used often. You can't always shoot or run away from a situation, yet sometimes you have to put your hands on people.

Boxing is a great place to start, and developing proficient boxing skills will give you a nice weapon to have if you can't or shouldn't shoot, but still need to do some damage to someone. Not to mention boxing training is really fun!

Grappling. If self defense is your goal you need to get some kind of jiujitsu and/or wresting training as well. Some people might not want to stand in front of you getting pieced up and decide to rush you. Also not every unarmed situation calls for smashing your fist into someone's skull. Breaking up fights, restraining women/teens/drunks, both wrestling and jiujitsu will give you the skills to handle these kind of things.

 

[theranch]

I get where you're coming from. My point is that self-defense training needs to center on tactical advantage as well as fighting. Tactical advantage in the street is much different than in the ring. Also, when it comes time to fight in the street I have a completely different target set. That set is generally all of the targets that are off limits in the ring.

I couldn't agree more about the snake oil. Problem is, there is a lot more snake oil out there than anything else. And, like j123 pointed out. If you're not selling snake oil you probably won't have any students. Sad.

You seem like one of the more legitmate self defence practitioners i have come across and i completely agree with your philosophies when it comes to awarenes and avoidance (the best martial art for self defence is track and field) but i disagree with the whole 'Target the bits that are illegal thing' being the key to a fight. I come from a place where guns are very rare the knife is king and fights are extremely common. No targeting system or prerehearsed combo will save you the key to surving a fight is learning how to fight! Once you know how to fight thats when you can eorry about your fight strategy and what areas to target. If you are relying on an eye poke nut kick or throat punch as your get out of jail free card but you have never sparred hard and been punched in the face before then chances are you'll panic or miss or balls it up in any number of ways. Ring sports teaches you how to fight then you can worry about fighting dirty.

 

[bobthebuilder]

Hi,

I'm a 35 year old male and have not taken any self defense classes in my life. My wife is having twins and I realized I could not properly defend them if there was ever a alteration where violence was necessary. I looked around my area and could not separate the good boxing gyms from the bad. And what I mean by bad, is just a gym for cardio not meant for anything serious. What I am looking for is a great gym that can help me prepare myself in-case I ever have to defend my family. How would anyone in situation go about their selection.

Thanks.

Avoid putting your family in dangerous situations, and think about how to de-escalate those situations, fighting is a last resort if your wife or children are with you. As for gym selection, you can ask whether they have amateurs or pros training at their gym.

 

[rmongler]

Less deadly techniques are more deadly then deadly techniques cause you can actually train them.

 

[CFGroup]

As a buddy of mine used to say, "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."

S

As a buddy of mine used to say, "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."

Seriously though. I train self-defense and I train it constantly. I never want to end up in a situation where I lose because I wasn't prepared. Most victims thought that they wouldn't be the day before it happened.

I wear a bee mask and Tyvec suit cause I don't want to be a victim if I fall into a honey bee hive!

LOL!

Farming students with fear is just sad!

At least tell them the truth that little of that works because you have to experience actual violent encounters to recognize them in time to use those deadly moves.

 

[a guy]

Less deadly techniques are more deadly then deadly techniques cause you can actually train them.

I say this often, but the only things stopping techniques used in "sport" arts from being deadly are the ref and the safety equipment. If I use my right cross in the street and your head bounces off the street instead of the mat, your chance of death skyrockets. If I keep hitting you and no ref pulls me off, you die. If I put you in an RNC and nobody makes me let go, you die.

 

[a guy]

Absolutely. The problem is though, for people who are not athletic, not dedicated to training, old, handicapped in some way, etc. They need their best shot at fending off violence as well. Yeah, that opens up a huge can of worms that can be debated ad nauseam. We'll never settle it here.

Still, your point is entirely true for those who are capable.

And that's a big part of the problem, isn't it? Simply being athletic, young and healthy are MAJOR deterrents to violence. A big part of not being a victim is simply not looking like a victim.

In my personal opinion, most of us on this forum go WAY overboard for what's actually needed for self defense in terms of fighting ability. I believe that 1 year of boxing, wrestling and weightlifting are enough to nearly guarantee that you'll never be attacked unless you provoke it, and will probably win if they aren't armed. If they are, you better be armed yourself, give them what they want, or destroy them before they get a chance to draw.

As for other aspects like awareness and deescalation, IMO most of that comes down to basic social skills. I know a lot of people who get into martial arts, and specifically those looking for self defense, who benefit way more from simply socializing more than from the actual training. The people who get attacked are generally awkward and have poor social skills, again making them look like easy victims. Very rarely does someone who's confident and friendly get attacked unless they provoke it.

So what I'm saying is that I believe training for self defense is largely illogical. You're far, far more likely to sustain far worse injuries practicing martial arts than you are to ever be seriously injured in a violent encounter. Similarly, one of the fastest ways to increase your risk of getting shot is to buy your own gun. We live in the safest time period in human history. Getting in shape, learning to make friends wherever you go, and avoiding dangerous areas are the main things you can do to protect yourself and make it 99.99% certain that you'll never need to fight.

 

[rmongler]

Similarly, one of the fastest ways to increase your risk of getting shot is to buy your own gun.

Generally on point with most of you post but this is an example of how statistics can fool you without a deeper understanding of context; id est, that the sorts of people most likely to want to get firearms for self defense are likely to already be in a high risk area in the first place.

It's basically like saying that, people who wear helmets are more likely to get head injuries, which is 100% factually correct.

 

[a guy]

Generally on point with most of you post but this is an example of how statistics can fool you without a deeper understanding of context; id est, that the sorts of people most likely to want to get firearms for self defense are likely to already be in a high risk area in the first place.

It's basically like saying that, people who wear helmets are more likely to get head injuries, which is 100% factually correct.

What I meant by that is you're more likely to shoot yourself or someone on accident with your own gun than you are to ever need to shoot an attacker in self defense Similarly, I believe owning a gun significantly increases the risk of suicide because people are much more likely to kill themselves if it's easier to do it. So in a weird way, for many people owning a gun will actually make you and your family less safe.

 

[a guy]

Again, you made a lot of valid points in your post. The one about exuding confidence is very true. And, yes violent crime is down. The problem is that it does happen and when it does it happens to 100% of the victim.

I'm alive today because of my self-defense training. It's actually saved me twice. I know several other people who can say the same. I can give you a long list of individuals who didn't come out so well. Keep in mind I'm old so have a lot of history to draw upon.

When I talk about awareness I'm talking about common sense awareness of your surroundings. Basically just not being stupid. That's not far from what you described. I know two ladies who were very violently attacked in parking lots. Neither of them had a clue about their surroundings and they both had parked in places that put them at high risk, meaning in a dark space near a heavily wooded area. Both paid a high price. A little training that brought the need for awareness and common sense to the forefront of their minds may have saved them. We'll never know for sure but it's logical.

Typical self-defense classes, yeah, they're can easily put you in more trouble than you would have been in. Common sense training akin to defensive drive for example, I still believe can pay dividends.

Respect

I'm with you. I think you make a lot of valid points.

I don't mean to argue that self-defense is never necessary and shouldn't be trained. I just mean to say that the actual fighting techniques themselves are of significantly less importance than many of us martial artists like to believe. As you said, not being stupid. Recognize what makes you look like a victim/target (being small, weak or old, having bad posture, poor social skills, being a woman), recognize what situations make you easier to victimize (being alone, being in a deserted area) and do your best to avoid those things. If you find yourself in a situation where you're likely to be victimized AND look like a victim, keep your damn eyes open, let someone know where you are and have an exit plan. Then, in the unlikely chance that something does happen to you, ideally you'd have some martial arts training to be able to fight them off--but, IMO, just a year or so of boxing and wrestling are enough for most people. Sub the wrestling for BJJ and the boxing for MT, or whatever other effective striking/grappling combo, doesn't really matter--though I prefer boxing and wrestling for the focus on gross motor techniques, countless repetitions of basic moves and fundamentals, and athletic development.

 

[rmongler]

What I meant by that is you're more likely to shoot yourself or someone on accident with your own gun than you are to ever need to shoot an attacker in self defense Similarly, I believe owning a gun significantly increases the risk of suicide because people are much more likely to kill themselves if it's easier to do it. So in a weird way, for many people owning a gun will actually make you and your family less safe.

That's true but (setting aside the disingenuity of conflating homicide and suicide statistics) it's also true that something like motor vehicles kill over 4 times that number per year but we accept it anyways because, what, they're; useful anyways? it's fun anyways? It's my right anyways? All men of good will and virtue agree we must cast the unworthy screaming into oblivion for the health and glory of civilization as god intended?

The solution of course is to make firearm ownership mandatory and have handling and target shooting a regular part of elementary education country wide.