Knowing when to tap?

[gangrene]

ok i just started training a couple of months ago so i'm still unfamiliar with some of the submissions.

usually when i get caught in a submission, i would wait until the pain kicks in until i tap and i'd be fine. well today i got caught in a kimura and i think i didn't tap soon enough because my shoulder is really sore right now, it's not broken or anything but its mobility is limited. the guy actually stopped to ask if i was ok and wanted to tap, i told him to keep going. it felt awkard but i didn't feel any pain or anything.

do you base your taps differently for different submissions? how much does your tolerance of pain factor in? what are the submissions where you really shouldn't take any time to tap due to risk of injury.

 

[Guards]

Any leg-lock should be pretty much insta-tap. You really don't feel 'pain' on knee bars until something goes really wrong(usually you just feel pressure or minor discomfort, and then REAL pain kicks you in the nuts), and with ankle-locks, they're really, really easy to tear up. You might think 'Oh, this ankle lock isn't too bad. Hurts a bit, I can roll...' and then the guy puts a little bit more pressure on and you're out of training for a month.

Other than that, I also say, if your club trains them, alot of Trachea chokes are pretty quick tappers, just to be safe and prevent any damage to a vital part of your everyday life(breathing/swallowing can become hell). Everything else is personal preference and based on experience. You usually want to tap as soon as you feel pain rather than trying to push your 'pain tolerance'. A drunk fighter could have his shoulder removed from his socket, and not be in 'too much' pain... Until the alchohol wears off and he has to go to the hospital.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

any slight pain tap immedately

 

[EPT]

There are some submissions that although they'll cause a lot of pain they're probably not going to injure you, but if you're unsure it's best to tap.

As for submissions that you should definately be tapping to I'd include knee bars and arm bars, once you're arm goes straight you've got almost no chance of escaping, bith of these don't really hurt that much until it is too late.

 

[Gsoares2***]

You should know when your caught.. When your stuck fighting with all your strength and not moving anywhere your stuck and should tap..
Because if your strength fails and all that force comes to a snapping end there is a good chance your going to get injured.
Chokes are the only submission i fight till the end.

 

[AaronLuis]

As a general rule, tap quick for anything below the belt because knees and ankles take forever to heal and sometimes (depending on the hold) damage mayb be permanent.Especialy knee bars and heel hooks, first there will be nothing and then BOOM pain pain pain. straight ankle locks will give a little bit of pain before something bad happens.

for arms feel free to wriggle a little bit if u actually think your escape will work.if u got a 85kg guy on side control and he is got a kimura, chances are he can put full force before u can escape.dont forget its only traning so dont roll with the intention to kill each other.im sure ur partner wont roll with the intention to break a limb

chokes is one area of submissions where you can play around since its not that bad. struggle till ur right out of air and see stars then tap, but dont fight till u go to sleep because u will look like a fool when the instructor kicks ur ass for being too proud to tap. remember, its training, not a comp so roll bout 80% but remember to tap

 

[AaronLuis]

oh yeah calf crushes and bicep crushes may hurt a lot, but think about tapping for thoes because you will probably wake up in the morning with a huge mother of a bruise on ur arm and may not be able to move it for a while

 

[hfam95**]

Certain submissions should be tapped fast. Although heel hooks are strongly not allowed, you get the brand new white belt that trains by watching UFC or pride. If they try that shit then I tap out. Yeah they get a ego boast, but if we roll again I put the hurt on them for doing stupid shit.

Tap when you get into a submission situation and you have no idea on how to get out or are trapped. It is far better to tap and ask how to get out than to get hurt and be out for several weeks to months

 

[Resident A-hole]

I am very careful when caught in a kimura over anything else, & tap fast. The shoulder is real easy to mess up, and the pain can linger for months. If a guy has a kimura locked in & you cant forward roll out of it, he basically has free reign to put your arm wherever he wants. There is no reason to wait for acute pain in that situation, you are caught, tap.

If its a loose armbar, americana, or a choke, feel free to try & wiggle out. I just don't want a torn rotator cuff from training.

 

[gangrene]

thx for the advice guys
really appreciate it

 

[NC Grappling1]

There are some submissions that although they'll cause a lot of pain they're probably not going to injure you, but if you're unsure it's best to tap.

As for submissions that you should definately be tapping to I'd include knee bars and arm bars, once you're arm goes straight you've got almost no chance of escaping, bith of these don't really hurt that much until it is too late.

Good advice, that's the way I view it also.

 

[RobT]

For a beginner I think it's definately better to tap earlier rather than risk tapping late. Just do as someone said; as soon as you think you're caught, tap, and then ask your partner what was happening, were you in danger, how could you escape etc...

Obviously, you can also ask your partner to go easy on applying submissions. Explain you're new and you're not too sure about what is going to cause damage and exactly when you need to tap.

 

[dutchmasterj3]

I tap after I have been submitted. Here's a good beginner tip though: buy glucosamine. It will help repair your joints and make them more flexible.

 

[Zankou]

Tap when the sub is locked, not when you feel it. If the guy has the sub, give it to him -- you've already lost at that point, you should've never gotten there, and to struggle on the verge of injury is retarded.

Some subs are never truly locked, like the guillotine or other loose chokes, so you can struggle more. In general I'd rather struggle against a choke then a joint lock, because with a choke you know you have a few seconds, with a joint lock, you don't know.

 

[John O'Brien]

When rolling, always tap. Tap tap tap. If he breathes faster than you, tap. If he passes your guard, tap. What I really mean is, don't let your ego get in your way of solid training. You progress when you get used to the idea of tapping. Do it, do it often. Don't be afraid to tap.

 

[colinm]

i try to always tap before i feel any pain at all. imo, the wear and tear of having your joints tweaked to the point of pain does a number on your body if you train a lot - and im doing jits everyday. like, when im on my back in an armbar and someone breaks my grip, i'll tap. the only thing that would get me out at that point is some meatheaded wild stength move that i pulled out my ass, and what's the point of doing that? you don't learn anything and you risk injury that will keep you out for a while. you got caught, just tap for christs sake.

i'll fight a triangle for a little bit, but in the back of my head i always remember that you look like retard if you get put to sleep on the mat.

i guess what im trying to say with all this longwinded garbage is that the risks outweight the benefits.

 

[chokingvictim]

Certain things (like weak chokes where I know the guy doesn't have it in right, like a poorly executed guillotine) I'll give myself more time to get out of it. I mean unless you're in his full guard, it's difficult to totally get choked out if you pull down on the arm.
Same goes for achilles locks. If I just feel a little pain, I'll still work on sitting up and pulling the guy to me to relieve the pain, but when you're first starting out it's probably best to just tap until you get a feel for how well the other guy as it locked in.

As far as any joint locks like arm bars, just tap. There is absolutely no reason to see how well you can squirm out when you're just rolling around for practice. If you struggle, the other guy might start to apply more pressure and you may not get a chance to tap before it's too late. Just err on the side of caution.

i try to always tap before i feel any pain at all. imo, the wear and tear of having your joints tweaked to the point of pain does a number on your body if you train a lot

Very true. A long time ago when my assistant instructor (an aikido black belt among other things) used to demonstrate a lot of wrist locks, he would throw us around by the wrist. I swear I went months with so much pain, and even though you tap, just taking it to the point of where it starts to hurt over and over really does a number on your joints (wrists especially). There were days I couldn't pick up my bag in the morning to go to school, or I'd have trouble just lifting things because my wrists hurt so much.
Granted this guy was a total asshole, and there are no wrist locks in bjj competition (as far as I know) but you get the point. Don't let those joints wear down, it's no fun.

 

[Zankou]

Granted this guy was a total asshole, and there are no wrist locks in bjj competition (as far as I know) but you get the point. Don't let those joints wear down, it's no fun.

Man there's totally wrist locks in bjj. I think guys involved in Aikido or JJJ often tend to perpetuate the myth that MMA and BJJ don't allow wrist locks. They're allowed, they're just hard to get in an MMA environment (less so in BJJ, where you will see them used commonly for breaking posture or grips instead of outright subs).

 

[Gsoares2***]

Most tournaments they dont allow the wrist locks in the lower belt levels.
I dont like wrists locks in practice because alot of people dont know how to defend them and dont know when they are caught in them untill they hurt.. Which results in more injurys.
They are a fast lock that is hard to tap to.. and doesnt take much to break

Also the injurys that come from wrists locks are baaadd.. Often requiring surgery to fix.. Which is no fun. Its not like breaking or arm or a leg.. there are so many little bones connecting the wrist/hand.. it can be very painfull and very expensive.

 

[Zankou]

Ugh, you've totally turned me off to wrist locks ... not that I've ever used them. I hate injuries, particularly long-lasting ones.