Judo within BJJ Harder???

[ctm1708]

Please forgive my ignorance. I am a month into my BJJ training and I am really enjoying it so far. I am almost 42-years old and wishing I had started when I was younger.

Now to my question I train where the head instructor is a BJJ black belt and a blackbelt in Judo. I have (as of today) only attended the fundamentals classes. Here is my problem when the ground techniques are taught I can generally get the hang of doing it during drilling against a non (or minimal) resisting partner. However, everyone class starts with a judo throw or trip. These are so foreign to me they are very difficult for me to do even against a non-resisting partner. I don't have a significant grappling background, I wrestled one season when I was 14 so almost 30 years ago. I understand I am only a month into this, just wondering if others have had more difficulty learning the Judo throws versus the BJJ ground work.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[DiegoDiegerson]

My experience - which is very limited, I've been doing judo for a bit over a year and BJJ for a bit under - is that the learning curves for standing vs ground are quite different. I can't account for other people's experience.

Even when I had only been doing judo for a few months and hadn't started doing BJJ yet, I felt far more comfortable on the ground than standing. I feel like I've picked up the groundwork easier than anything standing.

This is not to say that groundwork is easier, but rather that for me it has been easier to go from completely terrible to merely crappy on the ground, and it will probably be easier to get from crappy to mediocre.

I'd liken it to playing guitar vs playing bass guitar. Actually being good at both is probably about equivalent in terms of difficulty - but getting to a point where you are competently able to do the minimum is easier for bass guitar (and yeah ... I play bass).

Again, this is only my experience.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

I think it's because up to a certain point the techniques of judo can't really be done step by step or in slow motion, in comparison to an armbar or a back take. Takes a certain more amount of natural timing, balance, and athleticism for beginners.

You just need to drill it more but keep up the good work and don't get discouraged, nothing you can really do but drill

 

[Rod1]

You cant really half-ass drill throws, you can half-ass drill ground techniques.

A good judo coach will have to breakdown techniques into different drills and then have you put it together.

 

[lechien]

I understand I am only a month into this, just wondering if others have had more difficulty learning the Judo throws versus the BJJ ground work.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Which throw have you learned so far in one month?

 

[Chotoken]

I started with judo then went to JJ. Not exactly BJJ, but it's very close. I think the throws are much harder to learn than the ground work. It's fairly natural to try to control someone on the ground. Some of the Judo throws are quite unnatural movements. Plus the timing has to be spot on. I think you will get it in time. Don't worry too much about it. Work your drill, improve your technique, and most importantly have fun.

 

[iKOdMyself]

My experience - which is very limited, I've been doing judo for a bit over a year and BJJ for a bit under - is that the learning curves for standing vs ground are quite different........

I second that. I've never trained BJJ, but I've been doing judo for a little over a year now. Groundwork is much easier to understand and execute. I feel much more confident even with my back flat on the ground than I do standing and not having the right grip. In newaza you have the chance to correct your mistakes most of the time. Plus as a novice you tend to use a lot of strenght and it's a lot easier to muscle something on the floor. When throwing there's a very small margin for error. In order for the technique to work you have to get is at least 90% right. This takes time, practice and a lot of falls. :icon_chee Try to break down the throw step by step. How you off balance your opponent, how you enter for the throw - foot positioning, etc; how you apply force, your body position and motion and so on. Be patient, TS.

 

[CreepingTom]

Please forgive my ignorance. I am a month into my BJJ training and I am really enjoying it so far. I am almost 42-years old and wishing I had started when I was younger.

Now to my question I train where the head instructor is a BJJ black belt and a blackbelt in Judo. I have (as of today) only attended the fundamentals classes. Here is my problem when the ground techniques are taught I can generally get the hang of doing it during drilling against a non (or minimal) resisting partner. However, everyone class starts with a judo throw or trip. These are so foreign to me they are very difficult for me to do even against a non-resisting partner. I don't have a significant grappling background, I wrestled one season when I was 14 so almost 30 years ago. I understand I am only a month into this, just wondering if others have had more difficulty learning the Judo throws versus the BJJ ground work.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Are you from the Bay Area?

 

[Jo Thaibox]

Echoing what everyone is saying here. Learning curves are different. Judo throws are more physically demanding with little margin for error. Specially against a resisting opponent. Without the right set up, balance breaking and fitting, you're not gonna get a throw. Practice, practice, practice, treat standup and groundwork as two different beasts.

 

[ShindoNinja]

I think Judo has a steeper learning curve. Technique must be pretty clean for it to work properly. Also when sparring the windows of opportunity to actually throw someone when they are off balance are way smaller than in BJJ when you can impose your game on someone slowly like an anaconda.

At least in Judo sparring, the other guy is trying to throw you so he may be off balance by attempting an attack. Now try to try a BJJ player that is only playing defense standing! It's super hard. Just bc I have a judo back ground all my BJJ training partners expect me to throw them easily. Judo isn't easy!

 

[magick]

Now to my question I train where the head instructor is a BJJ black belt and a blackbelt in Judo. I have (as of today) only attended the fundamentals classes. Here is my problem when the ground techniques are taught I can generally get the hang of doing it during drilling against a non (or minimal) resisting partner. However, everyone class starts with a judo throw or trip. These are so foreign to me they are very difficult for me to do even against a non-resisting partner. I don't have a significant grappling background, I wrestled one season when I was 14 so almost 30 years ago. I understand I am only a month into this, just wondering if others have had more difficulty learning the Judo throws versus the BJJ ground work.

Throws require you to understand balance and how to utilize force effectively. They're not just about tugging at someone randomly and getting into position.

As such, throws are just more complicated than groundwork.

Don't expect to build a proper sense of balance and whatnot only a month in. It takes years just to become used to getting a flow and knowing how to utilize it to your advantage, unless you're training 6x a week or something.

Instead of trying to throw people, instead learn how the other fellow's body reacts when you move a certain way while you have a grip, etc. A large part of judo is getting your opponent to move exactly the way you want them to, and you can only build this sense when you focus and practice it a lot.

TL-DR- Yes, there's absolutely nothing with your experience. Yes, in my limited experience throws are much harder to learn than groundwork.

 

[QingTian]

I have a judo back ground all my BJJ training partners expect me to throw them easily. Judo isn't easy!

No, it really isn't. And it's a lot easier for people to learn to defend than it is for your to throw. Anyone can stiff arm or drop their weight. Believe it or not, I don't find it much easier to throw an athletic beginner versus a black belt. Defense is easy. I only worry when the other guy has strong offense.

It will take years before you develop a reliable throw in sparring. The whole while you might wonder if you are getting anywhere at all, but you do improve step by step. At some point it'll come together.

You'll need to do a lot more cooperative throwing to improve. Much more than BJJ. It's about developing the feeling and coordination.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Judo is much harder to learn. Take the most complex BJJ move you want, it's probably not more complex than a correctly executed uchi mata.

 

[ctm1708]

Are you from the Bay Area?

No I am from Texas.

Thanks for the comments guys, its good to know its not unusual what I am going through.

 

[Rivet L]

As everyone above has noted, the learning curves are different.

It's a lot harder to figure out what details to look for when someone is demonstrating a judo throw. Mobility limitation issues will also play a huge part in whether you can execute a throw (ex: if you have a hard time squating with a straight back, it'll be very difficult to execute most front throws). And there's also the fact that Judo is a lot harder to teach.

 

[jujijimmy]

this is why my kids all do judo because it takes so long to get good and the younger you are the better.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

Throws are hard as hell man. Just keep at it though, don't be discouraged.

 

[richardb]

I've been doing Judo for a bit over 3 years and BJJ for 1 year, and yes throws are really tough to learn. It's hard to break them down like ground techniques into small movements or sequences as they rely so much on speed and timing and strength to pull off. You have to drill them over and over. Actually I don't go too hard for takedowns in BJJ except against the other guys who came from Judo as it tends to piss some people off a bit. But anyway, I like a top grip and I've pulled off Uchimata and Harai Goshi a few times, but rely more on foot sweeps. I think foot sweeps are a bit easier to learn, so maybe start with the basic four if someone there is able to help you? Osoto Gari, Kosoto Gari, Ouchi Gari, Kouchi Gari.

 

[number9dream]

You cant really half-ass drill throws, you can half-ass drill ground techniques.

A good judo coach will have to breakdown techniques into different drills and then have you put it together.

Very good way to put it...

Some throws are ok (osoto gari for instance) and come reasonably naturally to me... But like, seio nage or however you spell it, i found myself wayyy over thinking the whole process and just getting no fluidity at all.

Pretty sure all you can do about it is drill more.

 

[darkgojira]

I think it's because up to a certain point the techniques of judo can't really be done step by step or in slow motion, in comparison to an armbar or a back take. Takes a certain more amount of natural timing, balance, and athleticism for beginners.

You just need to drill it more but keep up the good work and don't get discouraged, nothing you can really do but drill

This gets thrown out a lot, but i think it has more to do with how people are taught. If you do everything correctly you should be able to perform throws fairly easily. Applying them live during randori is another thing.