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Eye pokes and other interesting stuff, actually
The main ideas:
1) Many people think that eye pokes are prevented just by the design of the gloves (Pride example), but Pride valued fighters’ effort and grit, and judged fights based on how hard a fighter tried to finish the fight (not on a points system).
2) Pride had rules like fines for eye pokes and a system of yellow and green cards. A fighter caught with a foul like an eye poke would immediately lose 10-20% of their purse, and if the opponent couldn’t continue, the fighter committing the foul would be disqualified (DQ’d).
3) UFC fighters are told to keep their hands closed, but eye pokes still happen. Sometimes refs don’t enforce the rules properly, giving multiple warnings, but never following through with punishments.
Source:
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Transcript:
"Yeah. Yeah. So, um a lot of the a lot of the idea that people that have that have like never actually been taped up and and put those gloves on is everybody thinks it's the gloves and they look at Pride as the the uh example of like this is how you prevent eye pokes. to have a a glove that has a slight curve to it. And there are a couple different considerations that we need to look at other than just the difference in gloves when it came to to pride, right? Um they they really really appreciated the fighter spirit, right? They they were pushing that and it's like you went out there and you fought your ass off. It didn't matter win or lose if you if you fought gritty and you fought hard and you you went to went in there to finish the fight and that's how fights were judged as well on how much you tried to finish the fight, not some point system that was adapted from boxing. Um, you got the opportunity to come back and everybody wanted the opportunity to come back because, you know, Yakuza money they're paying cash like guys are smuggling, you know, uh, tens of thousands of dollars, maybe more than that, uh, you know, back into the US.
Um, so that's one thing, right? Like fighting hard. Another thing that often gets overlooked is like those guys were sauced out of their minds like to the point where the Japanese were testing them to see what drugs they were on so they could put their fighters on the same drugs. Um, probably greased. Yeah. Right. So, so it's like uh they they were uh uh from what I know, I don't know too much about, you know, uh performance enhancers, but I I'm pretty certain that steroids make you a little bit more aggressive. Um but then I think the biggest thing that often gets overlooked, right, is the rule set. Uh they had they had cards, right? I think it was a green card and a yellow card. um which were if the ref gave you a card, it was an immediate 10 or 20% deduction from your purse. So you were immediately fining someone. Eye gouges and eye pokes are the same thing. So if it happened, they were immediately fined 10 to 20% of their purse. And if the fighter that was poked was unable to continue, the fighter who committed the foul lost. They were DQed a lot. We get we get talked to to in the back by the refs every time and it's it's always, hey, keep your hands closed. Keep your hands none of this. None of this. And then you'll go in the fight and your opponent goes like this. And again, it's another warning. And a lot of times the referees in the back say, "Hey, this is your first warning." But then they they give two, three, four warnings again inside the octagon. And then a poke happens and then immediately whose fault is it? Who who gets the pressure? Is the the fighter that just got their eyeball poke poked in, right? The pressure goes to the that person to continue the fight. not not the pressure doesn't go on to the the the other guy like they they're not they're not necessarily going to lose unless it's one of those situations where it goes to the cards now and this and that, right? It's either going to be a no contest or they're going to go to the judges scorecard and they're going to see how it hit fans out. I would like somebody you guys are uh you know more into the data of this stuff than I am and I don't know if there's any an easy way to track this but how many times is a fighter that how many times the fighter that has been poked in the eye won the fight I don't recall it being very often right it it sucks it it is not a good thing to be in a fist fight and get your eye poked uh I believe that we need to treat them like a foul And we all know how to keep our hands closed. We do. And and a lot of the the that cultural aspect of it, right, is that like the the pressure when you get here is to stay here. Like it's it's it's harder to stay in the UFC than it is to get to the UFC. Uh so it's win at all costs. And when you get into that that that flurry, right, and I don't want to get hit, I don't want to get clinched. I don't want to get taken down. you start to get tentative and you and you push people away and that's that's when a lot of them happen. There are occasionally the ones that like somebody's swinging and reaching for someone and their hand opens up. There's the uh uh Leon against uh Bol when it was like his thumb. Like that one is a serious accident, right? We use uh uh instant replay for a lot of this stuff. If the fight gets stopped because of an eye poke and the ref looks at the the the replay and it is a strike being thrown with open fingers, it should be, in my opinion, an immediate point and there should be a fine.
How would you handle inactivity then? Because Pride also gave out cards and fines like you said for inactivity. Um, you know, I mean, uh, I don't know. I don't know how to be inactive. uh you know uh I I think that we could we could do something like that as well. I think I think that I poke honestly is a is a serious problem and I think we need to address it very seriously. um if if too many fighters which I honestly I don't think too many fighters are are being inactive um I if if they wanted to you know potentially do something like that like yeah inactivity or passivity or stalling whatever you want to call it um maybe come up with something for that as well but uh like the like I said the eye poke thing is like you know a fighter can be inactive and just not want to get uh uh hit or or take damage Usually that's not a winning strategy. Open your hand and up once or twice. It seems to be a a pretty good winning strategy at this point. So I I honestly I think the the the fouls need to be punished accordingly.
Just to build off that, Phil Davis came out earlier this week and said, you know, if a if a fight ends because of an eye poke, that should be a DQ. Someone should lose, someone should win. Because if you have a sport with two people or even a race with two people and one guy falls out, well, the other guy's the winner. Would you go as far as doing that? You mentioned that the pride situation. Uh, yeah, I would. I would. And and honestly, if that was if that was the case, if you knew that you were going to get disqualified for a poke, I I guarantee that you're going to see a uh a dramatic drop in the amount of pokes that you see there. There are accidents do happen. It does happen. Like I have I have been uh uh close to poking people in the eye in grappling situations. And when I fought Donald the first time, he hurt me to the body in the very first exchange of that fight. And I remember exactly where we were in the octagon. He had me against a cage in his corner and I tried to shove him away cuz I wanted some [ __ ] space. And I felt my finger go into his eye a little bit. And like he hit me really really hard right after that. But like had I had I uh had the ref stop the fight for it. Hey man, like I'm I'm a big boy. I'm a grown man. like uh it it was my [ __ ] That's why it happened. I was hurt. I didn't want to be in that situation, you know? And if we're going to have rules, we should we should follow them. So, like uh yeah, I I honestly I I do believe that I if uh if we're going to start actually treating the foul like a foul, then it should be something that that causes a disqualification."
The main ideas:
1) Many people think that eye pokes are prevented just by the design of the gloves (Pride example), but Pride valued fighters’ effort and grit, and judged fights based on how hard a fighter tried to finish the fight (not on a points system).
2) Pride had rules like fines for eye pokes and a system of yellow and green cards. A fighter caught with a foul like an eye poke would immediately lose 10-20% of their purse, and if the opponent couldn’t continue, the fighter committing the foul would be disqualified (DQ’d).
3) UFC fighters are told to keep their hands closed, but eye pokes still happen. Sometimes refs don’t enforce the rules properly, giving multiple warnings, but never following through with punishments.
Source:
----------------------------
Transcript:
"Yeah. Yeah. So, um a lot of the a lot of the idea that people that have that have like never actually been taped up and and put those gloves on is everybody thinks it's the gloves and they look at Pride as the the uh example of like this is how you prevent eye pokes. to have a a glove that has a slight curve to it. And there are a couple different considerations that we need to look at other than just the difference in gloves when it came to to pride, right? Um they they really really appreciated the fighter spirit, right? They they were pushing that and it's like you went out there and you fought your ass off. It didn't matter win or lose if you if you fought gritty and you fought hard and you you went to went in there to finish the fight and that's how fights were judged as well on how much you tried to finish the fight, not some point system that was adapted from boxing. Um, you got the opportunity to come back and everybody wanted the opportunity to come back because, you know, Yakuza money they're paying cash like guys are smuggling, you know, uh, tens of thousands of dollars, maybe more than that, uh, you know, back into the US.
Um, so that's one thing, right? Like fighting hard. Another thing that often gets overlooked is like those guys were sauced out of their minds like to the point where the Japanese were testing them to see what drugs they were on so they could put their fighters on the same drugs. Um, probably greased. Yeah. Right. So, so it's like uh they they were uh uh from what I know, I don't know too much about, you know, uh performance enhancers, but I I'm pretty certain that steroids make you a little bit more aggressive. Um but then I think the biggest thing that often gets overlooked, right, is the rule set. Uh they had they had cards, right? I think it was a green card and a yellow card. um which were if the ref gave you a card, it was an immediate 10 or 20% deduction from your purse. So you were immediately fining someone. Eye gouges and eye pokes are the same thing. So if it happened, they were immediately fined 10 to 20% of their purse. And if the fighter that was poked was unable to continue, the fighter who committed the foul lost. They were DQed a lot. We get we get talked to to in the back by the refs every time and it's it's always, hey, keep your hands closed. Keep your hands none of this. None of this. And then you'll go in the fight and your opponent goes like this. And again, it's another warning. And a lot of times the referees in the back say, "Hey, this is your first warning." But then they they give two, three, four warnings again inside the octagon. And then a poke happens and then immediately whose fault is it? Who who gets the pressure? Is the the fighter that just got their eyeball poke poked in, right? The pressure goes to the that person to continue the fight. not not the pressure doesn't go on to the the the other guy like they they're not they're not necessarily going to lose unless it's one of those situations where it goes to the cards now and this and that, right? It's either going to be a no contest or they're going to go to the judges scorecard and they're going to see how it hit fans out. I would like somebody you guys are uh you know more into the data of this stuff than I am and I don't know if there's any an easy way to track this but how many times is a fighter that how many times the fighter that has been poked in the eye won the fight I don't recall it being very often right it it sucks it it is not a good thing to be in a fist fight and get your eye poked uh I believe that we need to treat them like a foul And we all know how to keep our hands closed. We do. And and a lot of the the that cultural aspect of it, right, is that like the the pressure when you get here is to stay here. Like it's it's it's harder to stay in the UFC than it is to get to the UFC. Uh so it's win at all costs. And when you get into that that that flurry, right, and I don't want to get hit, I don't want to get clinched. I don't want to get taken down. you start to get tentative and you and you push people away and that's that's when a lot of them happen. There are occasionally the ones that like somebody's swinging and reaching for someone and their hand opens up. There's the uh uh Leon against uh Bol when it was like his thumb. Like that one is a serious accident, right? We use uh uh instant replay for a lot of this stuff. If the fight gets stopped because of an eye poke and the ref looks at the the the replay and it is a strike being thrown with open fingers, it should be, in my opinion, an immediate point and there should be a fine.
How would you handle inactivity then? Because Pride also gave out cards and fines like you said for inactivity. Um, you know, I mean, uh, I don't know. I don't know how to be inactive. uh you know uh I I think that we could we could do something like that as well. I think I think that I poke honestly is a is a serious problem and I think we need to address it very seriously. um if if too many fighters which I honestly I don't think too many fighters are are being inactive um I if if they wanted to you know potentially do something like that like yeah inactivity or passivity or stalling whatever you want to call it um maybe come up with something for that as well but uh like the like I said the eye poke thing is like you know a fighter can be inactive and just not want to get uh uh hit or or take damage Usually that's not a winning strategy. Open your hand and up once or twice. It seems to be a a pretty good winning strategy at this point. So I I honestly I think the the the fouls need to be punished accordingly.
Just to build off that, Phil Davis came out earlier this week and said, you know, if a if a fight ends because of an eye poke, that should be a DQ. Someone should lose, someone should win. Because if you have a sport with two people or even a race with two people and one guy falls out, well, the other guy's the winner. Would you go as far as doing that? You mentioned that the pride situation. Uh, yeah, I would. I would. And and honestly, if that was if that was the case, if you knew that you were going to get disqualified for a poke, I I guarantee that you're going to see a uh a dramatic drop in the amount of pokes that you see there. There are accidents do happen. It does happen. Like I have I have been uh uh close to poking people in the eye in grappling situations. And when I fought Donald the first time, he hurt me to the body in the very first exchange of that fight. And I remember exactly where we were in the octagon. He had me against a cage in his corner and I tried to shove him away cuz I wanted some [ __ ] space. And I felt my finger go into his eye a little bit. And like he hit me really really hard right after that. But like had I had I uh had the ref stop the fight for it. Hey man, like I'm I'm a big boy. I'm a grown man. like uh it it was my [ __ ] That's why it happened. I was hurt. I didn't want to be in that situation, you know? And if we're going to have rules, we should we should follow them. So, like uh yeah, I I honestly I I do believe that I if uh if we're going to start actually treating the foul like a foul, then it should be something that that causes a disqualification."
