Rumored Jack Dempsey vs Jack Johnson?

[WolverReem]

It says they had a secret exhibition of some sort and Dempsey KOd Johnson. Is this true?

https://www.boxingnewsonline.net/did-jack-johnson-fight-jack-dempsey/#:~:text=The fight was only for,written by one Ray Pearson

 

[StonedLemur]

I never heard of this, but would love to see footage of it.

 

[mozfonky]

It says they had a secret exhibition of some sort and Dempsey KOd Johnson. Is this true?

https://www.boxingnewsonline.net/did-jack-johnson-fight-jack-dempsey/#:~:text=The fight was only for,written by one Ray Pearson

I doubt it, but I've heard the story ever since I was 13 and started reading boxing mags. never been confirmed. It wouldn't prove much at that time if it did happen, Johnson was old and Dempsey was in his prime. However, I could definitely see how, with the racial climate, the demand to see Johnson beaten again would be a good sell.

Dempsey never spoke on it, and neither did Johnson as far as I know. Even if Johnson did, he had the habit of making shit up so I'd dismiss it. Dempsey was a fairly straight shooter, if he said it happened, it probably did. Don't see why he'd keep the secret all the way to his death in the early 80's.

 

[WolverReem]

I doubt it, but I've heard the story ever since I was 13 and started reading boxing mags. never been confirmed. It wouldn't prove much at that time if it did happen, Johnson was old and Dempsey was in his prime. However, I could definitely see how, with the racial climate, the demand to see Johnson beaten again would be a good sell.

Dempsey never spoke on it, and neither did Johnson as far as I know. Even if Johnson did, he had the habit of making shit up so I'd dismiss it. Dempsey was a fairly straight shooter, if he said it happened, it probably did. Don't see why he'd keep the secret all the way to his death in the early 80's.

According to the article Dempsey light confirmed it to a reporter, but said "not now" when asked if he could report it which he interpreted as not while he was alive. Possibly due to taxes since it was in Canada but secret exhibitions around this time weren't uncommon. Also that he tried to clean up his dirty image from boxing in his later years as a respectable sportsman so didn't want the story out since his manager at the time was a conman. Either way it sounds like a good fight by the pbp wish they had an official fight in their primes

 

[mozfonky]

According to the article Dempsey light confirmed it to a reporter, but said "not now" when asked if he could report it which he interpreted as not while he was alive. Possibly due to taxes since it was in Canada but secret exhibitions around this time weren't uncommon. Also that he tried to clean up his dirty image from boxing in his later years as a respectable sportsman so didn't want the story out since his manager at the time was a conman. Either way it sounds like a good fight by the pbp wish they had an official fight in their primes

Hmm...

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Old news. It probably went down but for reasons explained in the article it was just never directly confirmed. Either way Johnson was old, inactive, and the only fights he would have had recently would've been prison exhibitions. On the contrary Dempsey would've been in his prime. That'd make it largely a meaningless bout given the circumstances.

 

[mozfonky]

I dunno fellas, there would be no way to keep a fight like that as quiet as it is, no way. I'd have to put this up there with Creed-Balboa 3 until more proof comes available.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I dunno fellas, there would be no way to keep a fight like that as quiet as it is, no way. I'd have to put this up there with Creed-Balboa 3 until more proof comes available.

Well, the whole reason we even know about its existence is because it leaked out to the media. One of the news outlets then did an article on it. Dempsey himself more or less confirmed it to the boxing historian named in the article, Eskin, he just did so implicitly. Direct confirmation would've been nice but secret fights for private audiences, which this allegedly was, were pretty common back in the 20s & 30s.

 

[mozfonky]

Well, the whole reason we even know about its existence is because it leaked out to the media. One of the news outlets then did an article on it. Dempsey himself more or less confirmed it to the boxing historian named in the article, Eskin, he just did so implicitly. Direct confirmation would've been nice but secret fights for private audiences, which this allegedly was, were pretty common back in the 20s & 30s.

Well, I like hard proof. Just like how I'm discussing the rumored Atlas-Camacho scuffle in another thread. I won't say it didn't happen, won't say it did. However, both were so popular and both inspired so much deep emotion that I couldn't imagine any observers being quiet about it. So, sure, it could have happened.

Bruce Lee just had a book put out on his real life scuffles, no doubt that will not satisfy his doubters and maybe it shouldn't but it is interesting. I know Bruce was bad but you know, even with the greatest fistfighters, someone will say they weren't that good. Why does that matter? Well, even the hardest proof possible, the footage and the records don't settle or prove anything to the hardheaded. There will always be people who say Ali, or Duran or Robinson weren't that good, always. So, even with proof, some people aren't satisfied, but I'd like it personally.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Well, I like hard proof. Just like how I'm discussing the rumored Atlas-Camacho scuffle in another thread. I won't say it didn't happen, won't say it did. However, both were so popular and both inspired so much deep emotion that I couldn't imagine any observers being quiet about it. So, sure, it could have happened.

Bruce Lee just had a book put out on his real life scuffles, no doubt that will not satisfy his doubters and maybe it shouldn't but it is interesting. I know Bruce was bad but you know, even with the greatest fistfighters, someone will say they weren't that good. Why does that matter? Well, even the hardest proof possible, the footage and the records don't settle or prove anything to the hardheaded. There will always be people who say Ali, or Duran or Robinson weren't that good, always. So, even with proof, some people aren't satisfied, but I'd like it personally.

So do I. That's why I can't say for certain whether it happened or not. I believe that it probably did though when looking at what we do know. Like you said earlier, Dempsey was a fairly straight shooter. Yeah, there are always people out there that will knock even the most proven sports icons. I've heard some of them call Jordan & Gretzky overrated ffs. Brady as well. There's no point in even debating it with them. Hot takes are a dime-a-dozen on the web and everybody seems to have a strong opinion even when they're completely ignorant about a subject. The latter is what irritates me.

 

[mozfonky]

So do I. That's why I can't say for certain whether it happened or not. I believe that it probably did though when looking at what we do know. Like you said earlier, Dempsey was a fairly straight shooter. Yeah, there are always people out there that will knock even the most proven sports icons. I've heard some of them call Jordan & Gretzky overrated ffs. Brady as well. There's no point in even debating it with them. Hot takes are a dime-a-dozen on the web and everybody seems to have a strong opinion even when they're completely ignorant about a subject. The latter is what irritates me.

It's not just anybody who has those takes, Paul Pender and Mayweather have said Ray Robinson was overrated. People always have some sort of axe to grind. Mayweather also said Ali was overrated. Those opinions shouldn't hold more weight because of the competitive nature of fighters but they do.

As far as proof and tall tales, Johnson insisted he threw the willard fight and Willard claimed to his dying day that Jack's gloves were loaded and even one of Jack's people later said that Dempsey's gloves had plaster of paris. Maybe, maybe not. But there isn't really good proof of either. Jack Johnson was probably kayoed by Willard, being out of shape and what, 37?, He would seem the type to claim he threw the fight. Foreman still claims things about Zaire when he's in the right mood and then turns around to say Ali won outright. Some things, will forever be debated. Human's have bias' and they are also incompetent, OJ's murder investigation or Jfk's assasination are two heavily scrutinized by "experts" and bungled or disputed this same group.

We just don't know everything, Sonny Liston was either murdered or he wasn't but the debate will last forever.

 

[Lee_]

Many would be surprised to know that I secretly fought Mike Tyson. They would be even more impressed by the fact that I knocked the crap out of him. I swear, it happened, but it was secret.

Kind of hard to know this sort of thing. Johnson was the last black champ for like 30 years until Joe Louis. He claimed he threw fights under pressure.

Johnson would have a skill advantage, but Dempsey was a harder puncher. Dempsey had a hard time against skilled guys (Tunney X2), so I got Johnson overall.