Israel is taking Jon Jones' formula

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

Much taller / bigger than opponents (by 4 inches on average), deadly striking game (though Jon prioritized oblique kicks, elbows, jabs, and knees, and Izzy is more about counter hooks and high/low kicks) with huge reach advantage, and ridiculous strength in the clinch and grappling exchanges.

They're obviously different fighters. But this is one formula that's very hard to beat, especially given that lots of these opponents don't have 1 punch touch of death KO power (except Peirrera, but he's still coming up in the ranks).

Destroy an opponent from range -> if they try to come in and go for TD, overwhelm them with strength. I'm not going so far as to say that Israel roids, although some people will believe that just based on the breast grown.

I'm just saying, objectively, this formula will be very hard to beat going forward. The best chance to beat it is with explosive, multi-punch combinations like Thiago Santos. That kind of explosive power messes up their technique. Or with Israel, perhaps a wrestling specialist like Khamzat. I hear Khamzat is ridiculously strong, but he's still a bit undersized for Israel.

But 1 and 2 punch and kick combos will NOT get the job done, Israel is 2 steps ahead on those and 3 inches out of range. I don't see anyone challenging him at this weight class for the foreseeable future (until he loses a step or two through old age).

 

[RockyLockridge]

the way to beat isreal and jones to a lesser extent, you have to be willing to eat shots on the way in.

Then when you're in you need to be able to do damage.

 

[JustOnce]

I know Jones has some of his demons, without which there wouldn't really be Daniel Cormier that he became. Withouht Jones's troubles, there wouldn't have been titles for Cormier at LHW or HWs. It wouldn't be a stretch by any means without Jones's troubles OUTSIDE the cage, Cormier's legacy wouldn't be one tenth what it became.

Jones is the most talented fighter I've ever seen, and bar none the greatest LHW of all time, arguably the greatest fighter of all time pound for pound.

Izzy, I'm not even sure if he's top 5 greatest middleweight of all time. Would he have beaten Weidman/Mousasi/Rockhold/Jacare/Romero when he was a bit younger/Trtor/Hendo/Sonnen/Maia/Android Silva in his prime?

It's kinda funny to me how Izzy is talking shit to Jones. Head to head, Jones would literally wipe the floor with Izzy, and I think he and his camp knows this.

I mean they are long and rangy and they use it well to their advantage for sure, and they are very good, but if there are levels to greatness, they are not on the same level of greatness.

Jones was a special, special fighter, and I don't even like the guy much.

 

[ThatGuy7698]

I thought by formula we were talking about something else...

 

[Satan's Daddy.]

Both of them are experts at leaning back on the dance floor as well.

 

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

I know Jones has some of his demons, without which there wouldn't really be Daniel Cormier that he became. Withouht Jones's troubles, there wouldn't have been titles for Cormier at LHW or HWs. It wouldn't be a stretch by any means without Jones's troubles OUTSIDE the cage, Cormier's legacy wouldn't be one tenth what it became.

Jones is the most talented fighter I've ever seen, and bar none the greatest LHW of all time, arguably the greatest fighter of all time pound for pound.

Izzy, I'm not even sure if he's top 5 greatest middleweight of all time. Would he have beaten Weidman/Mousasi/Rockhold/Jacare/Romero when he was a bit younger/Trtor/Hendo/Sonnen/Maia/Android Silva in his prime?

It's kinda funny to me how Izzy is talking shit to Jones. Head to head, Jones would literally wipe the floor with Izzy, and I think he and his camp knows this.

I mean they are long and rangy and they use it well to their advantage for sure, and they are very good, but if there are levels to greatness, they are not on the same level of greatness.

Jones was a special, special fighter, and I don't even like the guy much.

Right. I'm just highlighting one particular aspect of Jones' dominance. Usually with a tall lanky guy like that, if you manage to get up close to him, you'd be able to ragdoll him. Kind of like how Neal Magny gets ragdolled by good wrestlers from time to time.

But Jones was just ridiculously strong in the clinch. It was unfair. I'm seeing a similar thing with Israel here.

 

[Luthien]

Both of them are experts at leaning back on the dance floor as well.

 

[JustOnce]

Right. I'm just highlighting one particular aspect of Jones' dominance. Usually with a tall lanky guy like that, if you manage to get up close to him, you'd be able to ragdoll him. Kind of like how Neal Magny gets ragdolled by good wrestlers from time to time.

But Jones was just ridiculously strong in the clinch. It was unfair. I'm seeing a similar thing with Israel here.

Comparing Jone's clinch to Israel's clinch would be like....yeah....I mean he didn't look that bad but he got outwrestled by Rob who almost landed half his TDs...I mean he did look kinda good but yeah.....

Jones outwrestled Cormier on the other hand and every human being he fought in his prime....

Comparing Israel's clinch to Jone's would be like comparing Ngannou's TDs to GSP's just because he outwrestled Gane in his last fight..almost on that level of absurdness...

I mean I can see where you are coming from, but they are entirely different fighters, and their clinchs are not even remotely on a same level, if not the universe...

 

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

Comparing Jone's clinch to Israel's clinch would be like....yeah....I mean he didn't look that bad but he got outwrestled by Rob who almost landed half his TDs...I mean he did look kinda good but yeah.....

Jones outwrestled Cormier on the other hand and every human being he fought in his prime....

Comparing Israel's clinch to Jone's would be like comparing Ngannou's TDs to GSP's just because he outwrestled Gane in his last fight..almost on that level of absurdness...

I mean I can see where you are coming from, but they are entirely different fighters, and their clinchs are not even remotely on a same level, if not the universe...

In terms of technique, yes. But the point is they're not supposed to be that strong. Israel might get taken down, but good luck keeping him down. That would not happy if he were not absurdly strong.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Much taller / bigger than opponents (by 4 inches on average), deadly striking game (though Jon prioritized oblique kicks, elbows, jabs, and knees, and Izzy is more about counter hooks and high/low kicks) with huge reach advantage, and ridiculous strength in the clinch and grappling exchanges.

They're obviously different fighters. But this is one formula that's very hard to beat, especially given that lots of these opponents don't have 1 punch touch of death KO power (except Peirrera, but he's still coming up in the ranks).

Destroy an opponent from range -> if they try to come in and go for TD, overwhelm them with strength. I'm not going so far as to say that Israel roids, although some people will believe that just based on the breast grown.

I'm just saying, objectively, this formula will be very hard to beat going forward. The best chance to beat it is with explosive, multi-punch combinations like Thiago Silva. That kind of explosive power messes up their technique. Or with Israel, perhaps a wrestling specialist like Khamzat. I hear Khamzat is ridiculously strong, but he's still a bit undersized for Israel.

But 1 and 2 punch and kick combos will NOT get the job done, Israel is 2 steps ahead on those and 3 inches out of range. I don't see anyone challenging him at this weight class for the foreseeable future (until he loses a step or two through old age).

Hes taller and bigger so i cant win....wahh wahhj..

He has better footwork and won't stand still so i can k.o.him....wahh wahh wahhj..

Hes black and outspoken ...wah wahh wahhj


Cry harder...

Theres been plenty of fighters who have beat people larger them physically...the BEAUTY of martial Arts is there is ALWAYS AN ANSWER to the problem your opponent poses...

Its not Izzy's fault his opposition cant get the job done...its THEIRS..

 

[theTKDguy]

like thiago silva?

 

[ArtardFiesta]

Israel is a huge MW. amazing striker. khamzat due to his wrestling has the best the shot.

israel vs strickland will be the worst fight of all time

 

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

like thiago silva?

Good catch, I meant Thiago Santos.

 

[VaselineSweep]

Apples and Oranges

 

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

Hes taller and bigger so i cant win....wahh wahhj..

He has better footwork and won't stand still so i can k.o.him....wahh wahh wahhj..

Hes black and outspoken ...wah wahh wahhj


Cry harder...

Theres been plenty of fighters who have beat people larger them physically...the BEAUTY of martial Arts is there is ALWAYS AN ANSWER to the problem your opponent poses...

Its not Izzy's fault his opposition cant get the job done...its THEIRS..

I'm not whining, I'm analyzing. There's a difference.

And of course smaller fighters have beat larger ones, because the small guys who are strong and compact should be able to outmuscle the tall lanky guys due to their lower center of gravity and TD skills.

The tall lanky guys aren't SUPPOSED to be THAT strong, as strong as Izzy. It's a unique trait. Name me one other fighter in the UFC who is tall and lanky and yet strong as Izzy in grappling exchanges.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

I'm not whining, I'm analyzing. There's a difference.

And of course smaller fighters have beat larger ones, because the small guys who are strong and compact should be able to outmuscle the tall lanky guys due to their lower center of gravity and TD skills.

The tall lanky guys aren't SUPPOSED to be THAT strong, as strong as Izzy. It's a unique trait. Name me one other fighter in the UFC who is tall and lanky and yet strong as Izzy in grappling exchanges.

Its not strength hes using though...

Its leverage and his commitment to not accepting the position once taken down..

Like Chuck Liddell...Chuck has talked about this, he just decides im getting up and theres no other option and thats what he does even if hes gunna get taking right back down or hit ...the goal is to get up... izzy is doing the same thing..

Chuck wasnt stronger then everyone he faced..he just didnt accept the takedown

Whats happening here right now in MW is theres no brown nosed forward pressing wrestlers like there was in the past...and thats benefiting Izzy's style...

A prime Chael Sonnen would beat Izzy ...because Izzy isnt gunna throw a triangle in round 5 like Silva did....Chael would 50-45 izzy...

The problem is ...at MW currently theres no Chael equal in this era..

So untill that changes or a very well rounded guy with power or grappling comes along .. Izzy is gunna be in a good spot as champion at 185..


Edit : The only person i can think of who has the type of pressure game im talking about is Vettori but he lacks the wrestle chael had and although in his second fight with izzy he found the clinch and the cage alot with Izzy...thats a blueprint that could be editted to beat izzy... If Marvin had wrestled more once he got close to Izzy instead of going for bombs and then diving back in for a clinch...he could of maybe got something going but Vettori is no wreslter

 

[SouthpawSouthernFist]

Its not strength hes using though...

Its leverage and his commitment to not accepting the position once taken down..

Like Chuck Liddell...Chuck has talked about this, he just decides im getting up and theres no other option and thats what he does even if hes gunna get taking right back down or hit ...the goal is to get up... izzy is doing the same thing..

Chuck wasnt stronger then everyone he faced..he just didnt accept the takedown

Whats happening here right now in MW is theres no brown nosed forward pressing wrestlers like there was in the past...and thats benefiting Izzy's style...

A prime Chael Sonnen would beat Izzy ...because Izzy isnt gunna throw a triangle in round 5 like Silva did....Chael would 50-45 izzy...

The problem is ...at MW currently theres no Chael equal in this era..

So untill that changes or a very well rounded guy with power or grappling comes along .. Izzy is gunna be in a good spot as champion at 185..


Edit : The only person i can think of who has the type of pressure game im talking about is Vettori but he lacks the wrestle chael had and although in his second fight with izzy he found the clinch and the cage alot with Izzy...thats a blueprint that could be editted to beat izzy... If Marvin had wrestled more once he got close to Izzy instead of going for bombs and then diving back in for a clinch...he could of maybe got something going but Vettori is no wreslter

I'm not so sure about this.. Jan has very good grappling, and is a heavy dude, and could only keep Israel down once Izzy got tired.

It's not simply a case of a weak division with no good wrestlers.

 

[RockyLockridge]

Would he have beaten Weidman/Mousasi/Rockhold/Jacare/Romero when he was a bit younger/Trtor/Hendo/Sonnen/Maia/Android Silva in his prime?

Personally I think he beats all those people, Except maybe rockhold, mousasi and silva being the only ones to give him lots of trouble.

Anyways, He's beating everyone he can. and that's what makes me think he's as good as those people. He's not selective over his match ups or anything. he won the interim title AND unified the title against fighters that were younger than him. then defended it 5 times. The costa defense is nothing to scoff at. Costa was undefeated in MMA, had wins against former MW title challengers and wins against former UFC champions, Costa is also younger than izzy and in his prime. The vettori defense was also very good, and I'm pretty convinced that vettori beats Whittaker and Cannonier also. Vettori, like costa is also younger than izzy and in his prime. that is 5 title fight wins against younger fighters in their prime (Whittaker x2, Costa (undefeated), Vettori, Gastelum)


All your argument boils down to, is the MW division weak right now? then ask yourself how strong was it when anderson was defending? and you'll get a clear idea. and you can't just stop and look at the names anderson silva fought you have to look at the names those people beat to earn a title shot against him

Comparing Jone's clinch to Israel's clinch would be like....yeah....I mean he didn't look that bad but he got outwrestled by Rob who almost landed half his TDs...I mean he did look kinda good but yeah.....

remember, EVERYONE izzy fights has better grappling credentials to them. Costa is a blackbelt in BJJ, Marvin is a brown belt, I thought whittaker was a wrestler at the equivalent of national level in austrailia? Yoel is obviously an Olympic level wrestler, Kelvin won division in Arizona..

I think in one way he is VERY easy to compare to even GSP, How does someone with zero grappling credentials officially have great ability to nullify grappling?

 

[Moosetony]

Much taller / bigger than opponents (by 4 inches on average), deadly striking game (though Jon prioritized oblique kicks, elbows, jabs, and knees, and Izzy is more about counter hooks and high/low kicks) with huge reach advantage, and ridiculous strength in the clinch and grappling exchanges.

They're obviously different fighters. But this is one formula that's very hard to beat, especially given that lots of these opponents don't have 1 punch touch of death KO power (except Peirrera, but he's still coming up in the ranks).

Destroy an opponent from range -> if they try to come in and go for TD, overwhelm them with strength. I'm not going so far as to say that Israel roids, although some people will believe that just based on the breast grown.

I'm just saying, objectively, this formula will be very hard to beat going forward. The best chance to beat it is with explosive, multi-punch combinations like Thiago Santos. That kind of explosive power messes up their technique. Or with Israel, perhaps a wrestling specialist like Khamzat. I hear Khamzat is ridiculously strong, but he's still a bit undersized for Israel.

But 1 and 2 punch and kick combos will NOT get the job done, Israel is 2 steps ahead on those and 3 inches out of range. I don't see anyone challenging him at this weight class for the foreseeable future (until he loses a step or two through old age).

He is a cheater. Dude held his fist open the whole damn fight. Piss poor shirty herb Dean didn't even warn him. No wonder he is the worse ref of all time. Also very bias towards you know

 

[Kha'bless]

Jones line of defence:

1. PEDS
2. Being cartoonishly bigger than his opponents
3. Dirty fighting (cranking arms, oblique kicks)
4. Sanctioned eye pokes
5. Living off the 'gotta kill the Champ and render him a vegetable to win the belt' narrative otherwise he wins by default
6. Judges will ALWAYS make sure he wins when all else fails