1. Walt Harris' daughter is missing around Auburn, Alabama. Please read this thread for more information.

International ISIS Repatriation: Europe has resisted taking back their citizens. Now, it doesn't have a choice.

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Arkain2K, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,057
    Likes Received:
    18,347
    As ISIS Fighters Fill Prisons in Syria, Their Home Nations Look Away
    By Charlie Savage | July 18, 2018

    [​IMG]
    Syrian Democratic Forces have converted this former school in Ainissa, Syria, into a makeshift prison for holding suspected Islamic State fighters. American funds helped pay for the towering concrete perimeter walls installed last month.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/...tion=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
    Stoic1, uppercutbus and ElKarlo like this.
  2. WTF2008

    WTF2008 Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    3,356
    Gotta leave a like just for "woke level 12" lol. I actually did lol, didn't just phone tap it.
     
    uppercutbus and JudoThrowFiasco like this.
  3. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,057
    Likes Received:
    18,347


     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  4. ryan3434

    ryan3434 Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,949
    Likes Received:
    1,211
    You think the family didn't have a say in these guys leaving to fight for the is is? They are likely more upset he didn't die a marters death.
     
    Fight To Win likes this.
  5. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,057
    Likes Received:
    18,347
    Australian Government silent on Australian prisoners in Syria
    By Tessa Fox | OCTOBER 7, 2019​

    https://amp.news.com.au/world/break...a/news-story/8839f339cab9bae7cc463643f7b5fe5a
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  6. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2005
    Messages:
    13,347
    Likes Received:
    15,236
    Location:
    USA!USA!USA!
    Suddenly very relevant, eh?
     
  7. Paradigm

    Paradigm Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    17,679
    Likes Received:
    9,207
    Location:
    LA
    <TheDonald>
     
  8. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,057
    Likes Received:
    18,347
    They Left to Join ISIS. Now Europe Is Leaving Their Citizens to Die in Iraq.
    By Pilar Cebrián | September 15, 2019

    [​IMG]

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/09/1...ope-is-leaving-their-citizens-to-die-in-iraq/
     
  9. sweede

    sweede Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Location:
    Sweden

    And no one shed any tears.


     
  10. Teehee

    Teehee Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    237
    This is the retardation of not having a death penalty

    Instead of wasting time and money just shoot them in the head

    No need for retardation anymore
     
  11. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,057
    Likes Received:
    18,347
    It has always been relevant, even though Europe pretends it doesn't exists.
     
  12. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,057
    Likes Received:
    18,347
    Months after the fall of ISIS, Europe has done little to take back its fighters
    By Michael Birnbaum | June 20, 2019​

    [​IMG]

    BRUSSELS — European leaders have hammered the United States for nearly two decades about the injustice of Guantanamo Bay, where prisoners are held indefinitely at a detention camp outside the normal U.S. justice system.

    But faced with what to do about European nationals who went to fight for the Islamic State and ended up in Syrian detention camps, the continent’s leaders are proving reluctant to bring their citizens to trial at home.

    Three months after the collapse of the Islamic State, about 2,000 foreign fighters are imprisoned in Syria and Iraq, and about 800 of them are believed to be European, according to U.S. officials. Those figures don’t include the thousands of wives and children with foreign citizenship.

    European leaders have made little movement to repatriate their citizens, even as U.S. and Kurdish authorities beg them to take back their people. Some security officials warn that inaction could enable future attacks, and human rights advocates deplore the conditions in overcapacity camps.

    “It’s obvious that there is a humanitarian crisis unfolding in the camps in northeast Syria and the prisons in Iraq that are holding thousands of foreigners,” said Letta Tayler, a global terrorism researcher at Human Rights Watch. “Western Europe’s response has been to look the other way. It just goes against everything that Western Europe says it stands for.”

    European leaders have taken a hard look at what their domestic populations want — and blinked. Popular opinion is overwhelmingly against bringing back the European fighters. The anger sharpened after terrorist attacks in Paris in 2015 and Brussels in 2016, in which some of the perpetrators had visited the caliphate.

    “Ordinary Belgians want them to be taken care of over there,” said Koen Metsu, a Belgian lawmaker who has worked on security issues. The Europeans who joined the Islamic State “knew up front what they were about to do,” he said.

    Even bringing back the children of the fighters is unpopular. France and the Netherlands have taken back orphans in recent days, because those children are free from the leaden political baggage of having parents who might also want to return alongside them. Belgium last week announced plans to do the same. Britain, meanwhile, has sought to strip suspected Islamic State sympathizers of their citizenship.

    Some fighters and sympathizers have been convicted in absentia — unable to appear at their European trials because they were in Syria. But authorities have little appetite to bring people home to serve their sentences.

    European countries have also begun to outsource prosecutions to Iraqi courts. Justice is swift, the burden of proof light, access to lawyers minimal and the punishment consistent: death by hanging, according to human rights groups who have witnessed the proceedings. In recent weeks, 11 French citizens, among others, have been sentenced to death. France, which opposes the death penalty, signaled it will not stand in the way of the trials, saying it respects Iraqi sovereignty.

    Advocates of shifting prosecutions to Iraqi courts, including Metsu, acknowledge that some fighters may have fought in Syria only, not Iraq, raising questions whether Iraqis truly have jurisdiction. But they say justice is better served close to where crimes were committed and where witnesses and evidence are nearby.

    The question of whether to reclaim fighters and their families is less pressing for the United States, because only a few dozen U.S. citizens are known to have traveled to join the Islamic State, according to counterterrorism analysts. But America has started to bring its people home. This month, six children and two women were flown back from the al-Hol camp to be resettled in the United States, according to Syrian Kurdish authorities. Three men and a woman are awaiting U.S. trial. Three others agreed to plea deals. And one Virginia man is appealing a sentence of 20 years for providing material support to a designated terrorist organization.

    U.S. officials, having made greater progress than their European counterparts, have sought to claim the moral high ground and to impress that the current situation is not sustainable.

    “It is not a solution to leave these people in camps in northeast Syria. This is a burden on the people of northeast Syria,” James Jeffrey, the U.S. special representative for Syria engagement, told reporters last week. “It is absolutely imperative that countries take action as necessary to deal with their own citizens.”

    The challenge bloomed as a U.S.-led coalition took over the final pockets of Islamic State territory in Syria and Iraq. That sent a wave of refugees and ex-fighters into the already fragile camps in Kurdish-controlled northeast Syria. Many of the men are in improvised prisons. Women and children are not under the same tight control, but those suspected of Islamic State sympathies are not allowed to move freely.

    At al-Hol, more than 73,000 people are packed into facilities built to house about half that. The camp population includes 3,200 foreign women and 7,900 foreign children, alongside more than 60,000 Syrians and Iraqis, according to Kurdish authorities. There are just three mobile clinics at the camp, and shortages of medicine are acute.

    The Kurdish forces who operate the jammed camps have few resources. Some of them complain they are being forced to lavish more money on their defeated enemies than on their own war-frayed population.

    Meanwhile, President Trump has said he wants to withdraw U.S. forces from the region. A pullout could threaten the viability of the camps, because the U.S. military has been a crucial source of support for the Kurds.

    Trump tweeted his frustration at the end of April: “European countries are not helping at all, even though this was very much done for their benefit. They are refusing to take back prisoners from their specific countries. Not good!”

    The inaction by European politicians also comes over the objections of some of their own security officials. Many who work to keep Europeans safe — but who don’t have to win their votes — would prefer to keep terrorism suspects and convicts close by, where they can be watched, instead of running the risk they could vanish abroad and plot future violence.

    “There is a disconnect between the political world that is very concerned about the political risks that are associated with the repatriation of terrorists, and the various services that are dealing with counterterrorism daily,” said Thomas Renard, a terrorism expert at the Brussels-based Egmont Institute. “Having these individuals here, prosecuting them here, is not only feasible but also probably less problematic.”

    “Purely from a security point of view, we should not make the mistakes of the past. We should not create a new Guantanamo Bay,” said one senior European security official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive assessments that do not line up with those of national leaders.

    Many of Europe’s objections to Guantanamo, the U.S. detention facility in Cuba, had to do with torture. But other factors that led the United States to detain people there — a lack of confidence in civilian courts to handle terrorism trials and a fear of the political backlash of bringing terror detainees onto U.S. soil — echo in the European decisions, the official said.

    European sentences for terrorism-related charges tend to be lighter than in the United States — the lightest offenses are punishable with two- to five-year sentences. Prisons can be hotbeds of radicalization. And European politicians warn that mustering the battlefield evidence necessary for convictions on serious charges can be difficult. Some countries, such as Sweden, never criminalized travel to Syria, making it difficult for law enforcement to charge people for basic association with the Islamic State.

    “It’s political suicide to try to bring them back, because the public doesn’t want them back,” said Magnus Ranstorp, a counterterrorism expert at the Swedish Defense University. “They’ve committed atrocities, but you cannot convict them. And if you can convict them, it won’t be for that long unless you can prove murder. It’s a ripe mess.”

    Swedish leaders are advocating a different approach.

    “We said we will not repatriate terrorists to Sweden,” said Swedish Home Affairs Minister Mikael Damberg in an interview. Damberg has pushed for an international tribunal near Syria to prosecute Islamic State crimes. He said that would provide a way to process the detainees without bringing them to Europe.

    “Not doing anything in the region, close to evidence and witnesses, is also complicated, and risks not actually prosecuting and condemning them,” he said.

    Skeptics of the effort, including the U.S. government, say setting up a tribunal could take years, by which time evidence would be lost and memories faded. They also say it would force an even bigger burden on Iraq, which is already struggling to rebuild after Islamic State occupation. The Iraqi government is in talks to take back about 30,000 of its own citizens who traveled to Syria to live under Islamic State rule.

    Some families of terrorism victims say they would prefer that justice be served closer to home.

    “We want those trials to happen in France,” said Georges Salines, whose daughter, Lola, died in the 2015 Paris terrorist attacks. “We really want for those people to be heard by judges. We want to know how they got radicalized.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/after-caliphate-collapsed-europe-has-done-little-to-take-back-those-who-joined-isis/2019/06/20/4bab9cc2-8bc4-11e9-b6f4-033356502dce_story.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  13. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,057
    Likes Received:
    18,347
    U.S. military takes custody of British ISIS terrorists known as the 'Beatles'
    By Kayla Brantley | 9 October 2019

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...h-ISIS-terrorists-known-Beatles.html#comments
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
    uppercutbus likes this.
  14. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,057
    Likes Received:
    18,347
    Turkey's Syria advance leaves Europe with foreign fighter dilemma
    John Irish and Joseph Nasr

    [​IMG]
    Turkey-backed Syrian rebel fighters are seen in action in the village of Yabisa, near the Turkish-Syrian border, Syria, October 13, 2019

    https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1WS0IF
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
    uppercutbus likes this.
  15. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,057
    Likes Received:
    18,347
    Nope. That would go against the civilized European ideals.

    Didn't you read the article directly above your own post?
     
  16. TripleAz

    TripleAz Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    272
    So they fear Europeans errrrr Isis supporters will be upset? Lmfao UKucks
     
    uppercutbus and Cunningham like this.
  17. MicroBrew

    MicroBrew Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    32,690
    Likes Received:
    23,656
    Charge them with war-crimes. Throw them in prison for life.
     
  18. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,057
    Likes Received:
    18,347
    That's what we have been trying to get Europe to do for the last three years, and what Europe is trying to outsource to Iraq now.

    European countries have resigned to the fact that their progressive European laws wouldn't be able to do anything to these European jihadists though (the British posters in this thread are of the opinion that not only they gonna go free, but they might score a nice payday from the British government instead for their pain suffering in the Middle East). So no matter what anyone says, Europe had been effectively pretending that these guys don't exists and flatly refuses to do anything about it, while American tax-payers continue shelling out millions to house and feed them in Syrian Kurds' jails, which was built with American funding in the first place.

    It's rather amusing that the same virtuous countries that berates Guantanamo Bay are the very same countries who secretly wishing and hoping that the U.S will take their ISIS fighters there. Now that it's clear that neither we nor the Kurds are going to take care of these European jihadists forever, and there's a real chance that they might escape and go back to Europe when Turkey moves in, these countries are finally getting off their asses and enter into real negotiation with the Iraqis to prosecute them there instead.

    The only two things they're haggling over now are the millions of euros in court fees for this subcontracted justice system, plus convincing the Iraqi government to forego the death penalty. I'm not sure the Iraqis would be keen to be housing and feeding these European jihadists for life though, so we'll see what's the price tag they'll demand for that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  19. Arkain2K

    Arkain2K Si vis pacem, para bellum

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,057
    Likes Received:
    18,347
    Turkey says it will send back Islamic State prisoners even if citizenships revoked

    [​IMG]
    Turkish Interior Minister Suleyman Soylu

    ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkey will send captured Islamic State members back to their countries even if their citizenships have been revoked, Interior Minister Suleyman Soylu said on Monday, criticizing the approach of European countries on the issue.

    Turkey launched an offensive into northeastern Syria against the Kurdish YPG militia last month following a decision by U.S. President Donald Trump to withdraw troops from the region. The move prompted widespread concern over the fate of Islamic State prisoners in the region.

    The YPG is the main element of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which has been a leading U.S. ally in beating back Islamic State in the region, and has kept thousands of jihadists in jails across northeastern Syria. The United States and Turkey’s Western allies have said Ankara’s offensive could hinder the fight against Islamic State and aid its resurgence.

    Turkey, which views the YPG as a terrorist group linked with insurgent Kurdish militants on its own soil, has rejected those concerns and vowed to combat Islamic State with its allies. It has repeatedly called on European countries to take back their citizens fighting for the jihadists.

    Speaking to reporters, Soylu said Turkey would send back any captured Islamic State fighters to their countries even if their citizenships are revoked.

    “We will send back those in our hands, but the world has come up with a new method now: revoking their citizenships,” Soylu said. “They are saying they should be tried where they have been caught. This is a new form of international law, I guess.”

    “It is not possible to accept this. We will send back Daesh (Islamic State) members in our hands to their own countries whether they revoke their citizenships or not,” he said.

    Soylu had warned at the weekend that Turkey would send back Islamic State members captured by Turkey to their home countries and complained of European inaction on the matter.

    The United States said last month that it had killed Islamic State’s leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi in northwestern Syria, where Turkey and Russia have troops. While Baghdadi’s death was hailed by world leaders, including Turkey, the group has vowed revenge against the United States.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rs-even-if-citizenships-revoked-idUSKBN1XE0T7
     
  20. JDragon

    JDragon DOX News Anchor Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2010
    Messages:
    13,954
    Likes Received:
    17,517
    Location:
    Germany

    Well, I hate to say it, but of course Turkey is right here. Unless these terrorists have dual citizenship, you cannot simply take their citizenship and act like it's not your problem. Imagine Mexico doing that to all Mexican criminals convicted in the US: "Sorry, you cannot deport, not our citizen."

    The problem is our justice systems are not equipped to deal with these people. There is a reason Guantanamo came into existence (even though I think it should not exist). There is a reason the world was content to let IS prisoners rot in Kurdish camps.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.