Is it ever time to give up on a technique?

[1PBCE1]

There are a few techniques I've spent so much mat time, privates, study etc... trying to improve on and yet I simply cannot hit them when sparring/competing. Yet there are others that I see once and magically 'get' and they become bread and butter very quickly. There is not a trend on any of these techniques either sadly.

Is there a time to simply say, that technique is just not for you, and forget about it?

 

[Thai Otoshi]

That's how I'm currently feeling about tai otoshi.

I've repped that shit to death for literally years, but I just can't hit it in randori... ever. If you see me doing tai otoshi nagekomi, you'd think I was a tai o stud, but live, it leaves more to be desired.

In randori, I seem to have a natural aptitude towards the various reaps (k/o soto, k/o uchi), different seoi nage variations, and uchi mata (against BJJers). I've decided some time ago that it just wasn't worth the effort to spend and inordinately large amount of time working on tai o, which sucks, because I think a proper tai otoshi is one of the most brutal and prettiest throws in judo.

 

[QingTian]

That's how I'm currently feeling about tai otoshi.

I've repped that shit to death for literally years, but I just can't hit it in randori... ever. If you see me doing tai otoshi nagekomi, you'd think I was a tai o stud, but live, it leaves more to be desired.

In randori, I seem to have a natural aptitude towards the various reaps (k/o soto, k/o uchi), different seoi nage variations, and uchi mata (against BJJers). I've decided some time ago that it just wasn't worth the effort to spend and inordinately large amount of time working on tai o, which sucks, because I think a proper tai otoshi is one of the most brutal and prettiest throws in judo.

I didn't "get" tai otoshi for years and years, but once I took it up again I used it like it was like my tokuiwaza. I never had to uchikomi for it and in fact don't quite know how (that is not to say I believe uchikomi won't help for it).

The ultimate and unfortunate reason is that tai otoshi is a throw you cannot force, especially compared to lever throws like leg reaps. That means you have to understand kuzushi, momentum, and manipulating uke very well.

I didn't do tai otoshi until after black belt, and IMO anyone who has a good tai otoshi should be one too. Heck, maybe nidan too.

 

[RJ Green]

That's how I'm currently feeling about tai otoshi.

I've repped that shit to death for literally years, but I just can't hit it in randori... ever. If you see me doing tai otoshi nagekomi, you'd think I was a tai o stud, but live, it leaves more to be desired.

In randori, I seem to have a natural aptitude towards the various reaps (k/o soto, k/o uchi), different seoi nage variations, and uchi mata (against BJJers). I've decided some time ago that it just wasn't worth the effort to spend and inordinately large amount of time working on tai o, which sucks, because I think a proper tai otoshi is one of the most brutal and prettiest throws in judo.

i used to focus too much on the backstep ippy. once i started thinking of it as more of a stomp it worked well enough that people asked me to stop.

i also had to bastardize to a same-side grip. i can only hit morote style on people my size or bigger, which is fucking nobody

 

[Thai Otoshi]

The ultimate and unfortunate reason is that tai otoshi is a throw you cannot force, especially compared to lever throws like leg reaps. That means you have to understand kuzushi, momentum, and manipulating uke very well.

This is definitely the reason why I can't hit it... yet.

I'll try what you said, though. I'll work my other throws for a while, and get a better handle on kuzushi and manipulating uke and such, and revisit it after a few years.

i used to focus too much on the backstep ippy. once i started thinking of it as more of a stomp it worked well enough that people asked me to stop.

i also had to bastardize to a same-side grip. i can only hit morote style on people my size or bigger, which is fucking nobody

I don't know what my problem is, but the backstep isn't it. I dunno. Kuzushi, more likely.

 

[Was Exiled]

the average BJJer who came into this thread and saw all the judo terms (me)

 

[Gabicho]

I think competition wise, it's not so much about giving up on certain techniques, but actually, specializing in only a few of them.
For competition, mastering 3-4 technqiues > Knowing 100 and sucking at all of them.

For sparring/randori, pretty much anythin goes and that's when you should try all the wanky stuff that you will never hit in competition - except for those things that may actually injure yourself or your partner because you can't execute them properly and safely (say, kani-basami if you are 900 lbs).

 

[A Muse of Fire]

I have the same problem with Tai otoshi and most every judo throw lols. I spend most of my time grappling time at judo though.

However there really isn't one single technique that one HAS to be good at.

 

[QingTian]

This is definitely the reason why I can't hit it... yet.

I'll try what you said, though. I'll work my other throws for a while, and get a better handle on kuzushi and manipulating uke and such, and revisit it after a few years.

I don't know what my problem is, but the backstep isn't it. I dunno. Kuzushi, more likely.

That is one way to do it but it should depend on your resources. If you have good teachers it might be worthwhile to do things the hard but right way at the start. I basically self taught my Judo so that is why I took the roundabout way. In fact, were I to run a club I might make everyone do tai otoshi at the start.

 

[These Two Hands]

In another, previous martial art I trained in before coming to BJJ there were two principles that were insisted heavily upon by my instructor which I have kind of brought with me into my own BJJ training mentality; first was to always drill/train/work bilaterally which doesn't really have any bearing on this, but the second was to always work your weaknesses. So if there's a move I'm struggling with I will tend to spend more time on that until I can get it brought up to speed. My BJJ coach agreed these were good principles to incorporate so I do.

 

[RJ Green]

In fact, were I to run a club I might make everyone do tai otoshi at the start.

 

[lechien]

I gave up on the flower sweep long time ago.

 

[HtomSirveaux]

I spent a good 2, 2 and a half years drilling de la Riva and sit up guard and to this day it gets me pushed back down and cross knee passed every fucking time. It's infuriating

 

[lechien]

Have you tried shin to shin from sit up guard?
Also adding reverse de la Riva to counter the knee slice as well?

 

[HtomSirveaux]

Have you tried shin to shin from sit up guard?
Also adding reverse de la Riva to counter the knee slice as well?

No to either of those. My instructor doesn't teach that stuff. My usual response is to feed the lapel and knee bump them in the butt to come up on a single leg. Not super successful with it, occasionally it at least creates a scramble, my wrestling is improving but still not great. and the better guys are good at sitting their weight back in a way that makes bumping them ineffective

I could look into that stuff but honestly, as per the thread subject, it's something I should probably just abandon. I have better luck with feet on the hips stuff, I've hit tripod sweep on blue thru brown, got a black on his butt but I couldn't come up for the points.... I just spent so much time working dlr I still automatically go to it a lot without thinking lol

 

[Russky]

In fact, were I to run a club I might make everyone do tai otoshi at the start.

This is our club. We teach little kids osoto gari and tai otoshi. Then we teach ouchi gari and de ashi as set ups for tai-otoshi, and kouchi/ouchi/osoto as secondary attack. Tai-otoshi is the best way to learn ukemi.

Despite lots of nagekomi I still struggling with tai otoshi in randori. Every technique require set ups and it is difficult to get it training in isolation.

If some technique does not work for me I'd start working on set ups or put it aside for some time. I had problems hitting armbars from the guard on anyone who is not a complete beginner. Then one day coach showed how to control elbow with judo grip. Another day he showed how to attack from angle and break posture. Suddenly, everything clicked together and started to work.

 

[TheHereticJay]

Been about a year now. Still sticking with the lugnut. It'll work for me eventually, I just know it.

I've kind of given up on finishing guillotines though. Sweep with them or just as a threat, cool. Finish? Not gonna happen unless you're a day one nooblet.

 

[JustTheTip]

I've been reading a book titled "How We Learn". It delves into techniques of learning and backs it up with science.According to the book, instead of practicing a specific technique over and over, its better to vary multiple techniques. In addition, i've found that often my ability to do a technique comes down to my BELIEF i can be good at it.Tell yourself over and over that you are the best in the world at a technique and watch videos of people that are the best at it. Most of my "bread and butter" techniques now were techniques that I abandoned in the past due to thinking they weren't good for me.

 

[JustTheTip]

In another, previous martial art I trained in before coming to BJJ there were two principles that were insisted heavily upon by my instructor which I have kind of brought with me into my own BJJ training mentality; first was to always drill/train/work bilaterally ...

I disagree with this.

 

[These Two Hands]

I disagree with this.

Can you elaborate? I'm always keen to learn something new, so hearing your opinion and why could be an opportunity to do so. The logic behind working bilaterally was firstly to be competent from either angle, but also supposedly something to do with learning something on both sides activating the brains learning patterns better or something like that.