Is DWCS better than most UFC cards?

[BenjaminDuffy]

I think DWCS is good for my Tuesday nights, bad for the UFC, and probably neutral for the sport overall.

GOOD: It's a fast, fun watch, like if TUF was 85% fights and 15% bullshit instead of the other way around.

BAD: The crazy finishes are partly for the reasons Dana and Dan and Laura want you to believe—they're here to impress the boss, came to bang, it's the hardest job interview in the world, etc. etc. However, the finishes are also in part because the overall talent level is low and the matchmaking is poor. There are lots of fighters who simply don't have the skill or experience to defend themselves. The lower the level of a promotion, the higher the finish rate generally is.

The show prioritizes spectacular finishes over actual displays of top-level skill, which is how Brendan Loughnane ends up in PFL (making more money in the last five years than all but about three UFC featherweights) while [insert names of barely skilled light heavyweight goofballs] get signed over and over, only to wash out 1-3 with their only win coming against another Contender Series goofball.

And that's fine, but if all I cared about was finishes, I could watch WorldStar. 99% of the fights there end in a knockout.

 

[xhaydenx]

Did you watch the HW fight?

Bro, the UFC will have fat, unathletic slobs like Don Tayle Mayes stinking up the place on their normal cards.

The HW fight was bad on this last ep, but there's been plenty of good ones that are more entertaining than the average normal UFC HW fight.

 

[xhaydenx]

I think DWCS is good for my Tuesday nights, bad for the UFC, and probably neutral for the sport overall.

GOOD: It's a fast, fun watch, like if TUF was 85% fights and 15% bullshit instead of the other way around.

BAD: The crazy finishes are partly for the reasons Dana and Dan and Laura want you to believe—they're here to impress the boss, came to bang, it's the hardest job interview in the world, etc. etc. However, the finishes are also in part because the overall talent level is low and the matchmaking is poor. There are lots of fighters who simply don't have the skill or experience to defend themselves. The lower the level of a promotion, the higher the finish rate generally is.

The show prioritizes spectacular finishes over actual displays of top-level skill, which is how Brendan Loughnane ends up in PFL (making more money in the last five years than all but about three UFC featherweights) while [insert names of barely skilled light heavyweight goofballs] get signed over and over, only to wash out 1-3 with their only win coming against another Contender Series goofball.

And that's fine, but if all I cared about was finishes, I could watch WorldStar. 99% of the fights there end in a knockout.

How is your "bad" point bad for the UFC? Wouldn't the more exciting fights and finishes be good for them in pleasing and bringing in new fans?

You bring up Loughnane. He's great and all, but a fighter like him is never going to bring in much money for the UFC compared to people who are less skilled than him but more exciting.

 

[CroCopsLHK]

If you have an espn+ account just watch it

It is often more entertaining than a 5 fight main card

 

[John makfresshi]

Not watching DWCS if you're a fight fan is absurd, best show on Tuesday night for 10 weeks straight. Not all barn burners but nearly a 70% finish rate over 10 weeks this season! We'll welcome you into the PBP next season with open arms, give it a chance.
View attachment 1116699

You convinced me! See you next week

 

[Khaosan]

It really is a great show, I wouldn’t compare the two though.

 

[MidgardSerpent]

You convinced me! See you next week

More like next year, last episode of this season was yesterday.



Also, I disagree with the notion that the DWCS series fighters are bad, plenty of alumni have done well for themselves in the UFC, and we got some exciting and new talent this season, and with most of them being on the younger side they'll have plenty of time to improve. It's a great feeder program and delivers tons of entertainment.

 

[John makfresshi]

More like next year, last episode of this season was yesterday.

That’s hilarious I had no clue lol

 

[MidgardSerpent]

That’s hilarious I had no clue lol

You missed out man, last episode had a fight that had early Justin Gaethe level of violence and momentum swings between Kahiki vs Mulumba. I don't know how succesful Kahiki will be in the UFC but he's going to get some crackin' ko's or get ko'd himself probably.

The penultimate episode had Vologdin vs Martinetti, in contention for the best fight of the year imo.

 

[John makfresshi]

You missed out man, last episode had a fight that had early Justin Gaethe level of violence and momentum swings between Kahiki vs Mulumba. I don't know how succesful Kahiki will be in the UFC but he's going to get some crackin' ko's or get ko'd himself probably.

The penultimate episode had Vologdin vs Martinetti, in contention for the best fight of the year imo.

Fine I’ll rewatch the last season! See you next season in the PbP

 

[EndlessCritic]

while [insert names of barely skilled light heavyweight goofballs] get signed over and over, only to wash out 1-3 with their only win coming against another Contender Series goofball.

Five of the fifteen current ranked LHWs in the UFC came from contender series. Are you trolling?

And that doesn't include Stirling who is currently unranked, and will probably be ranked next year.

 

[Neck&Neck]

It’s better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick
Plus as a bonus you get to watch Gianni teach you how to make proper parlay bets
It’s always a good time

 

[BenjaminDuffy]

How is your "bad" point bad for the UFC? Wouldn't the more exciting fights and finishes be good for them in pleasing and bringing in new fans?

You would think so, but the DWCS era lines up pretty closely with the ESPN era, and that is ending because ESPN hasn't been happy with what they're getting from the UFC, not the other way around. Viewership is down.

 

[AL-Tappo McSnappo]

 

[BenjaminDuffy]

Five of the fifteen current ranked LHWs in the UFC came from contender series. Are you trolling?

And that doesn't include Stirling who is currently unranked, and will probably be ranked next year.

Not trolling at all! Light heavyweight was on my mind because Vidal was so lousy in this week's episode closer, and I probably should have said "heavyweight" or "women's bantamweight," but even at LHW I stand by my point.

Since the middle of 2017 when DWCS debuted, the UFC has cut or declined to re-sign Ryan Bader, Lyoto Machida, Corey Anderson, Rob Wilkinson, Yoel Romero, Antonio Carlos Jr., and Impa Kasanganay, just off the top of my head. All of them were either ranked by the UFC at the time of their release, have been ranked globally at 205 since then, or both, as was the case with ones like Bader and Anderson.

Yes, a disproportionate number of ranked fighters in the UFC's own rankings are going to come from the Contender Series, but the UFC can only rank what they've got, so if they release guys like Anderson because they can literally sign 10 guys from DWCS for the same amount of money, there's a good chance a couple of them will end up being ranked. Between the sheer volume of signing 50-70 fighters a year through the Contender Series, some of them actually turning out to be good, and forced turnover in the rankings above them as contenders are let go, the math almost guarantees it.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Since the middle of 2017 when DWCS debuted, the UFC has cut or declined to re-sign Ryan Bader, Lyoto Machida, Corey Anderson, Rob Wilkinson, Yoel Romero, Antonio Carlos Jr., and Impa Kasanganay, just off the top of my head. All of them were either ranked by the UFC at the time of their release, have been ranked globally at 205 since then, or both, as was the case with ones like Bader and Anderson.

Uhh... Impa Kasanganay came from the contender series, and was cut after going 2-2 in the UFC. Either this is a very impressive troll job, or more likely, it's a perfect example of your ignorance to the fact that many top fighters have come from the contender series. (Your ignorance/trolling is particularly impressive considering Kasanganay fought not once, but twice on the contender series before the UFC signed him.)

Wilkinson was cut after going 0-2 in the UFC, getting finished twice.

Shoeface was cut after losing 3 straight fights in bad performances.

None of those cuts were particularly out of the ordinary.

Anderson / Bader / Machida / Yoel were not "cut". Bellator simply outbid the UFC for those fighters. This is the free market at work. The UFC literally had to pay hundreds of millions in a class action lawsuit due to having an alleged monopoly on top fighters. In order to abide by US anti-trust law, the UFC literally needs to allow top fighters to go to other promotions. Personally, I strongly believe the UFC should have held on to Anderson, and it was a mistake to let him go.

Your example of Vidal is all the more interesting. Vidal fought earlier this season on the contender series, and won his fight in relatively unimpressive fashion. For his unimpressive win, Dana decided that he did not deserve a shot in the UFC, but instead would give him another chance on the contender series. Vidal lost in his second contender series appearance, thus proving Dana's original decision correct to not sign him. What's the problem?

 

[Xuh]

starving people desperate to impress Massa White > people on minimum wage 'fighting' just not to lose their job

 

[Fact Checker]

Nice try Daner, we’re not watching that low budget amateur hour being repackaged and sold as a premium product.

Most the fluff from the Pretender Series is used to spam the roster with cheap fighters and avoid paying actual talent the big bucks.

 

[TriangleMonkey]

Gives Dana a chance to clear out some expensive contracts in lieu of a new constant batch of entry-level pay contracts

Its a profit machine now that they are getting paid by networks and only need to provide a fight card with a name or two on it

 

[EndlessCritic]

Gives Dana a chance to clear out some expensive contracts in lieu of a new constant batch of entry-level pay contracts

This is absurd. The vast majority of fighters cut from the UFC are on cheap contracts.

The last batch of fighters cut a month ago were: Paul Craig, Melissa Martinez, Westin Wilson, Preston Parsons, Austin Hubbard, Maheshate Hayisaer and Maryna Moroz.

Martinez / Wilson / Parsons /Hubbard / Maheshate were not on expensive contracts. (Interestingly, of those fighters, only 1 came from the contender series.)

Moroz and Craig were on more expensive contracts, but absolutely deserved to be cut, and absolutely deserved to be replaced by younger fighters.