Is a "flash knockdown" a concussion?

[proudamericanda]

Got a physical for work coming up this week. I got a flash knockdown while sparring last week, is that considered a concussion? I remember getting up and I was fine once I was up but I don't remember the punch that dropped me. I wasn't put on my back,. just basically sat down on my butt (I have the tape) then got right back up.

 

[Varth]

Probably not but it's not bad to check it up every once in a while. Sometimes you have a concussion and you don't even know it.

 

[mrpopenfresh]

Probably. I'm no doctor and don't claim to event know what I'm talking about not even a little, but a light concussion is not that hard to get.

 

[FuriousFist]

Yes, a flash knockdown is a concussion. Here's a post I wrote on this a couple of months ago:

I know a little about this.

There is no difference between getting your bell rung, seeing stars, light dimmers, or a concussion: they are all one and the same. If you experience any alteration in mental status as a result of a blow to the head - nausea, dizziness, hearing changes, flashes of light, headaches - even for a couple of seconds or so, you have sustained a concussion. You do not have to get knocked out to have a concussion, but all knockdowns and knockouts are concussions.

The best thing you can do is STOP TRAINING RIGHT AWAY and take a break from getting hit in the head for a bit. Get checked out by a medical professional before you return to training. I am not trying to scare you, but getting another concussion when you have not recovered from the first one can disable or even kill you.

And even after you've recovered, concussions add up. The more of them you get, the longer the symptoms stay with you, and the longer it takes for you to recover from them. If you're particularly unlucky, you may never recover if you sustain enough concussions.

I know that combat athletes are trained to push through pain and injury, but a concussion is not something you want to push through. I am speaking from personal experience.

If in doubt, sit it out.

Jeff Joslin has an excellent blog post on concussions from a combat sport athlete's perspective.

The current medical thinking on concussions is summarized in the Zurich consensus statement on concussions in sport. The SCAT2 and Pocket SCAT2 in the appendix of the document provide professionals and non-professionals respectively with tools to determine if an athlete has sustained a concussion.

You can find clear and reliable information on concussions at the University of Buffalo Concussion Clinic Web site. One of the doctors at the clinic has a pretty informative paper on what happens when you get a concussion.

I'm a little on the fence about this, but it may also be helpful for contact sport athletes to get baseline neuropsychological tests like ImPACT or Vital Signs done before they're concussed, to help manage their concussions once they get them and determine readiness to return to play.

 

[Promtheus]

it is some sort of brain injury, and is likely a concussion, but it is impossible to determine without medical workup. you should visit a physician for further answers on this one rather than looking for wisdom on an internet forum.

 

[Promtheus]

-i mean tell him about it rather than visit him. sorry, got distracted in my orignial post

 

[FuriousFist]

-i mean tell him about it rather than visit him. sorry, got distracted in my orignial post

Well, ideally, you visit him then tell him. :icon_lol:

 

[apizur**]

yes. stage 3 is defined by unconciousness, they don't state a time period.

you had a stage 3 concussion. train accordingly.

what you do need to look up now is something called "2nd impact syndrome" which can be found in any amatuer boxing bout booklet. or anywhere on google. then decide what you want to do.

EDIT: furious fist is dead on

 

[ahheadlock]

what symptoms should you be looking for to decide whether or not to sit it out. I mean i walk away from every single sparring session with a headache, and being a bit cooked the next day is probably pretty normal from the physical exertion. eg. Friday night i took a nice straight right flush on the chin and dropped to a knee. Afterwards i didn't have any serious symptoms except the headache and being tired (and not being able to sleep but i suspect that is unrelated). Is that worth taking some time off? i've exercised since without any serious ill effects. I guess what i'm trying to ascertain - is where to find the middle ground between safety and training. If I took time off every time i took a big punch, i'd probably never train lol.

 

[proudamericanda]

it is some sort of brain injury, and is likely a concussion, but it is impossible to determine without medical workup. you should visit a physician for further answers on this one rather than looking for wisdom on an internet forum.

simmer down bro, I'm going to a physician for a physical. But I've been thinking about this shit all day and wanted to get some sort of input. It is possible to go to a physician AND do some internet research at the same time you know.

 

[Zyzz**]

Yes, a flash knockdown is a concussion. Here's a post I wrote on this a couple of months ago:

if that article is legit I'm getting concussions often lulz. Lights pop and flash regularly.

 

[FuriousFist]

what symptoms should you be looking for to decide whether or not to sit it out. I mean i walk away from every single sparring session with a headache, and being a bit cooked the next day is probably pretty normal from the physical exertion. eg. Friday night i took a nice straight right flush on the chin and dropped to a knee. Afterwards i didn't have any serious symptoms except the headache and being tired (and not being able to sleep but i suspect that is unrelated). Is that worth taking some time off? i've exercised since without any serious ill effects. I guess what i'm trying to ascertain - is where to find the middle ground between safety and training. If I took time off every time i took a big punch, i'd probably never train lol.

All I can tell you is from what I have learned from my doctors and my own research: a concussion is a blow to the head (direct, as in a punch, or indirect, as in whiplash) where your mental status is temporarily changed and that usually resolves itself spontaneously. So if you ask me, every time you get dropped, you have a concussion. And every time you go back to training without giving it a chance to heal, you make it worse.

Post-workout headache and feeling fried? Dunno; it could be many things.

BUT!

You should really talk to a doctor about this, preferably one who deals with boxers or concussed people. I find most GPs don't know enough about these things. If I were a doctor, which I am not, I still wouldn't be able to tell you one way or another seeing how I can't physically examine you over the Internet.

Whatever you do, you need to remember that it's better to be a bit conservative now rather than end up when you're 50 like any number of punch drunk combat athletes. It might suck to miss some training now, but I bet you it will suck more later when you're drooling and barely able to think and speak for the rest of your life like Muhammad Ali.

tl;dr: SEE A DOCTOR

 

[FuriousFist]

simmer down bro, I'm going to a physician for a physical. But I've been thinking about this shit all day and wanted to get some sort of input. It is possible to go to a physician AND do some internet research at the same time you know.

I'm with you on doing your own research. You need to be able to evaluate critically what the doctor is telling you, and there's no better way to do this than to edumacate yourself.

Quite frankly, we are still in the very early stages of understanding how the brain works, never mind what happens when you get a concussion and how you heal from one. Advances in the field happen very quickly. Most GPs and some doctors who specialize in the brain / brain rehab still are stuck with knowledge from 10 or 15 years ago which is ancient history.

Check out the Zurich and Buffalo information. I think it's the best info available of what's out there. There's a lot of concussion research going on at University of Pittsburgh too. I think that the CDC also has a section of their Web site dedicated to (sport) concussions, but it's more oriented to youth sports and I can't seem to find it at the moment. I know that the US military is investing a lot into brain trauma research, but I'm not aware of any resources that they've made available to the public on the matter.

Consider getting baseline neuropsychological testing done (ImPACT, Vital Signs).

Derp. CDC concussion Web sites are the first results that come up when you Google "CDC concussion" - here's the CDC stuff: CDC - Injury - TBI - Concussion - Home page and CDC - Injury - Concussion - Heads Up Youth Sports

 

[ahheadlock]

All I can tell you is from what I have learned from my doctors and my own research: a concussion is a blow to the head (direct, as in a punch, or indirect, as in whiplash) where your mental status is temporarily changed and that usually resolves itself spontaneously. So if you ask me, every time you get dropped, you have a concussion. And every time you go back to training without giving it a chance to heal, you make it worse.

Post-workout headache and feeling fried? Dunno; it could be many things.

BUT!

You should really talk to a doctor about this, preferably one who deals with boxers or concussed people. I find most GPs don't know enough about these things. If I were a doctor, which I am not, I still wouldn't be able to tell you one way or another seeing how I can't physically examine you over the Internet.

Whatever you do, you need to remember that it's better to be a bit conservative now rather than end up when you're 50 like any number of punch drunk combat athletes. It might suck to miss some training now, but I bet you it will suck more later when you're drooling and barely able to think and speak for the rest of your life like Muhammad Ali.

tl;dr: SEE A DOCTOR

yeah i get what you're saying, unfortunately it's a bit hard to get to a doctor every time you take a big shot. Also usually a doctor's visit will go like this

*waves finger around* can you follow it ok? yes
do you know what day it is, where you are, what your name is etc? yes
has a look in your eye with a light

*shrugs* you seem ok, if you feel tired or really confused, excessively dizzy etc then worry. Get some rest, and take up a different sport.

thanks mate, it's now 9-10pm and i've been in a fight - and i should worry about feeling tired haha.

I think I'll err on the side of caution with it anyway. Cheers

 

[apizur**]

did you just hijack the thread?? lol

you should rule things out. headaches could be caused by dehydration. hydrate yourself and eliminate that option. tension; get a neck and back massage, then see if they persist.

 

[ahheadlock]

haha sorry, just been thinking about this recently and thought this might be an opportune time to ask some questions. Didn't mean to hyjack proceedings.

 

[FuriousFist]

haha sorry, just been thinking about this recently and thought this might be an opportune time to ask some questions. Didn't mean to hyjack proceedings.

Don't think you hijacked the thread. Everything that applies to you applies to TS, and vice-versa. It's good to ask questions about these things.