They only design, then license out IP for others to manufacture or use.
Law Investing in Domestic Semiconductor Manufacturing Act: Signed into Law 8/9/2022
- Thread starter Lead
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That’s why I am saying they too could go into production. Everyone is fabless and that’s kinda not ok anymore
They don't want to, that's their entire business model, being free of manufacturing and purely being a design bureau effectively. It may change, but that would be a radical shift from how they do business. It's not like they've just been waiting for the perfect incentive to go into fabs, it's that they don't want to.
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Thanks for the additional information on this. I have no clue on this stuff that is why I posed the question. It seems like it would make sense to at least work with US companies on this at the least. Anytime we help out a foreign business, it increases the chance of us getting screwed over and I know the US company could screw us to but the chance seems to be slightly less.@Staph infection
I certainly understand the skepticism and love the nationalist sentiments but Intel could honestly be a lot worse given the sort of shit corporations get up to in order to maximize profits at all costs. In recent years, they've had some real bad leadership at the exec level with empty suits replacing engineers and making administrative decisions, obscene stock buybacks, etc. but god damn... you really could do a whole lot worse. They have practically held down the domestic semiconductor industry, most US firms are fabless and have no capability to produce their own designs,100% of production must be outsourced. As an IDM, Intel both designs and manufactures chips.
Intel Manufacturing Sites:
A whole lot of Made In USA, Very Little Chy-Na.
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I have plenty more of that if you're interested or when you have the time to get around to it. <Lmaoo> This what I said about the domestic industry and geopolitical situation on here back on January 1, 2021. I think it's a decent primer at least. The bills that are the topic of @Lead's thread have also been floating around for a long time.
TL;DR: Protect Your Ass & National Assets.
This is for all things industrial sector, integrated circuits and their intersection with geopolitics. The title is in reference to a bill that was introduced in the 116th U.S. Congress (2019-2020), also known as the Creating Helpful Incentives to Produce Semiconductors (CHIPS) For America Act. A bipartisan, bicameral piece of legislation aimed to establish incentives and investments that support U.S. semiconductor research and development, manufacturing and supply chain security. They're as incompetent and late as they've ever been. Why do these tech components matter so damn much? You don't have to take my word for it.
In 1945, the U.S. manufacturing sector accounted for over 40% of the entire American workforce; by 2020, that had dwindled down to less than 10%. Despite the heavy losses, elimination and offshoring of factory work in consumer goods and light manufacturing, the US has never lost heavy industry or the production of capital goods. In fact, the sector as whole has only continued to expand in terms of real output and is still responsible for driving 35% of productivity growth, 60% of exports, and 70% of private sector R&D. Every dollar spent in manufacturing contributes $1.89 in growth for industries such business services, retailing and transportation. Along with surplus natural resources, a skilled labor force and penchant for entreprenuership, capital goods are one of the backbones of America's advanced economy.
As we know, integrated circuits are the brains of modern electronics and fundamental to enabling advances in computing, communications, defense, energy, health care, medical devices and transportation, in addition to next generation artificial intelligence, quantum computing and wireless networks. The US spawned this industry into existence following World War II and heading into the 2020s, maintains a roughly 50% global market share. It directly employs over 250,000+ Americans and supports an additional one million US jobs, is one of the country's top three global net exports (aircraft and refined oil) and America's number one contributor to labor productivity growth. None of this should be taken for granted.
In a country that values profit over patriotism, it's great to have multinationals who decide to plant their own corporate flag firmly on U.S. soil. The American semiconductor industry doesn't base a majority of its production in the United States necessarily out of loyalty, but more pragmatic reasons of IP protection and legit concern over industrial espionage (they do not base production in the People's Republic of China). The result and benefit to the country is the same, and for what it's worth they're also far from being the most egregious beneficiaries of government subsidies and tax breaks. In fact, they probably deserve more of them if remaining on the cutting edge of technology is a national priority. It's doubly beneficial when companies based in nations of geopolitical allies make foreign direct capital investments in American manufacturing and stateside job creation.
Of course, there's other well known global players (Read: China) wanting into this high technology game but as they've found out the hard way over decades in embarrassing failed efforts, the know-how to both engineer and manufacture semiconductors at the scale of being competitive in the global market truly is that complex and difficult. The barrier to entry really is that high. Smug @NoDak was right, other Sherdoggers were wrong and he forgives them. It's made all the more seemingly impossible when the kingpin progenitor constantly slams the door on the foreign acquisition of tech assets and implements export controls to choke off access to the materials, machinery, equipment, software and services required to raise their own domestic industry. It's an overtly hostile tool of economic warfare, and the result of being full fledged blacklisted is invariably an inevitable collapse of that corporation.
As far as the aforementioned "CHIPS For America Act", it's an obvious no-brainer for automatic acceptance and chump change given the spending of the federal government these days. It probably doesn't go far enough in some respects given how capital intensive and difficult it is to set up a modern semiconductor fabrication manufacturing plant: An investment tax credit of 40% for semiconductor equipment or facility costs through 2024; $12 billion towards R&D in a variety of subindustries, related fields, and training programs; $10 billion in federal matching to local and state funding in support of advanced manufacturing; $750 million in support of transparency, policy negotiations with foreign powers, and consistency in the semiconductor industry; new programs to boost the nationwide STEM workforce, 5G leadership, and advanced assembly; DoD funding for related projects including the Defense Production Act tie-ins to support rapid production as needed.
Global Industry Snapshot.
I'm entirely opposed to suggestions that the US stop selling China IC's and would sell them as many chips as they can possibly consume. If the US stopped selling chips to China, it would cut revenue by at least 50% and cost tens of thousands of high skill, high wage jobs stateside.
I'm far less against choking off the means to produce them and keeping the CCP in a perpetual state of dependence though. The semiconductor materials and machinery firms don't represent remotely the same level of collateral damage the chipmakers do because a majority of their client base are the chipmakers. China has been chasing a domestic industry of their own for quite a while regardless though.
On China, Taiwan & TSMC in May 2022:
If the CCP/PLA were to launch a military invasion in an attempt to take control of the "renegade province" by force that resulted in damage to TSMC's physical capital and interrupted chip production (or if Taiwan took sabotage measures itself in response), this wouldn't only be devastating for the semiconductor industry or even the technology sector, it would completely upend markets and supply chains the entire world over with disastrous ripple effects and impact on the global economy at large.
With that said, the proprietary know-how is still of far greater significance because it isn't so much Taiwan's fabrication plants or infrastructure itself that is of the greatest value, but the capital equipment assembled and tuned within them. The intellectual property for and production of the machinery required to manufacture advanced microchips remains almost exclusively within the grip of five firms that are based in the United States, Netherlands, and Japan. They are Applied Materials (US), ASML (Netherlands), Lam Research (US), KLA-Tencor (US) and Tokyo Electron (Japan).
As important of a hub Taiwan is for spinning out the core tech that makes the modern world run, it is entirely dependent on those inputs to advance chip manufacturing and process technology. It also does not engineer any microchips itself, but rather takes and produces the designs of a predominantly US corporation client base as a pure play foundry. At this juncture, the biggest obstacle for why the CCP hasn't been able to mount a cutting edge national semiconductor industry of its own (it can produce mature nodes and legacy tech in spades at this point) after more than three decades is because it has been choked off from or denied access to the materials, machinery, equipment, software and services required to raise one.
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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-big-tech-advances-despite-us-curbs#xj4y7vzkg
China will advance quicker than you think. I wouldn't bank on being able to freeze them out long term. They are throwing massive amounts of money at the problem, and they will get results.
Once they break the US control of this industry they'll take over as China is the largest market.
China will advance quicker than you think. I wouldn't bank on being able to freeze them out long term. They are throwing massive amounts of money at the problem, and they will get results.
Once they break the US control of this industry they'll take over as China is the largest market.
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You can thank AMD for that. They handed over a bunch of ip that allowed them to catch up a couple years ago.
The US used to have at least a 40% processing power lead over China.
With inflation running so high and causing so much pain for many Americans, the last thing we need is more government money printing. The Democrats and the few GOP member supporting this multi billion dollar unneeded bill further spending spree are going to be making the inflation situation worse.
I thought Larry Kudlow's talk last night on this proposed spending insightful ~
"Larry Kudlow: You can’t have this both ways"
https://ussanews.com/2022/07/21/larry-kudlow-you-cant-have-this-both-ways/
I thought Larry Kudlow's talk last night on this proposed spending insightful ~
"Larry Kudlow: You can’t have this both ways"
https://ussanews.com/2022/07/21/larry-kudlow-you-cant-have-this-both-ways/
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The US is done imo. China will overtake them, and that's almost a certainty.
The main problem will be the US desperately trying to protect its advantages and trying to polarise the world into East and west camps.
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Bill passed in the senate today. Was the key thing they were working through this week before the August recess.
Senate passes bipartisan bill investing $52 billion in US semiconductor production
CNN
Senate passes bipartisan bill investing $52 billion in US semiconductor production
CNN
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Passed in the House 243-187. On to the president for signing:
Congress passes bill boosting US semiconductor production
CNN
Congress passes bill boosting US semiconductor production
CNN
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It’s way easier to launder money overseas.
