Integrating the Front Snap Kick with Muay Thai

[SummerStriker]

In this video, there are front snap kick, teep, and hybrid front snap - teeps knocking people out or knocking the wind out of them:



While it is true about any knockout reel, people tend not to react to the front kick until it is too late. I personally believe that the primary reason people are shy about throwing the front snap kick is the fear of hitting an elbow with the top of the foot, and the difficulty of landing it flush (it isn't the easiest kick to hit with). When in a position where kicking the elbow isn't likely, most front snap kicks go unanswered.

The front snap kick is different than the teep. The FSK is a chambered kick that swings up and sticks the ball of the foot into the opponents gut or chin without pushing them back. The goal is to make an instant deformity and rechamber without pushing.

I love the front snap kick and have had success knocking the wind out of people in sparring with it. Now it is becoming more popular as a sudden kick to the teeth. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a whole lot known about using it, defending it or setting it up, especially with a typical MT or MMA guard. Right now it is mostly a surprise move and is working because people don't react to the chamber because they believe it is going to be a teep which they would handle differently.

For reference, here is the front snap kick:



Most of the front kick defenses online suppose that the opponent is going to throw a slow teep, or kick and leave it hanging out there. The first video is better than the others and more of a teep, but he is teaching WAY too much movement for a fast snap kick. I'm mostly posting it because he brings up the problem of defending a chambered kick, in that a good kicker will aim it wherever the hole is. Block low, get hit high.

That gives context to the second video and why I don't like it. The already low guard makes a slow kick to the gut less likely, and the block shown from any position begs for the kick to go towards the face. Starting the block late enough to prevent the kick from choosing the face is going to make the block too slow to work (this is a worst case scenario against a good kicker, rather than an obvious kick from a slow beginner).

The final video of the next three is an example of the most typical and worst front kick defenses shown on the internet, and I've been taught these from more than one TMA in more than one city. I believe they are unfortunately very common: too slow and suppose you will be so much faster than your opponent.







Defending the front snap kick, conventionally in kick boxing, is done with a parry like this:



Here you can see Master K teaching the same motion:



This basic defense, and I have no historical reference for this, I believe was correct for the slower push kick or teep but is wrong for the front snap kick, which can more easily change angles. In addition, the front snap kick is almost as fast as a jab, and dropping the hand into the parrying position takes a long time. It isn't possible unless you are doing a good job of reading the kick, which is why parrying the front kick - even the attempt to do it - is barely present in the knock out compilation.

So to make my point clearer, because I know I'm not the best writer:

I believe that front kicks aren't used much in mma because it is difficult for people to know how to set them up to avoid the easy elbow spike.

The elbow spike is more of an accident of having a high guard, but isn't a reliable defense. When an opponent feels confident that they can throw the kick, the most common defense is flinching. People don't know what to do to defend it, because the common defenses are more appropriate for the teep or TKD push kick, but not for the snap kick.

Next post: using and defending the front snap kick well.

 

[SummerStriker]

Setting up the Front Snap Kick

So the main problem facing someone wanting to throw the front snap kick to the body or face is that the foot rises up, rather than going in straight like a teep, so it has to pass in-between the dangerous elbows. Because it is a snap kick thrown straight, it isn't likely countered by someone coming in, nor is it easy to catch. The difficulty of landing it flush because of the angle against someone with good posture and the elbows are the real problem.

These problems can be bypassed two main ways: getting the opponent to extend their arms, or getting them to bend forward at the waist.

If their arms are extended from their body, their elbows won't be pointed straight down, or even if they are, they won't be as low or as strong. If the opponent is bending forward at the waist, they the kick can pass up between the forearms instead of the elbows.

The easiest set ups, like any other technique, are against people who have flaws built into their movement. If they lower their hands when you teep or round kick, changing the kick to a front snap kick is easy. If they bend forward at the waist when advancing, you can hold them at bay with the front snap directed up into their chest, in addition to the teep.

Sun Tzu says, "a force can make itself invulnerable, but a force can't make the enemy vulnerable." Performing this kick against someone who maintains a tight guard and good posture is much more difficult.

Set Up 1

Throw the combination straight punch, lead hook punch, front snap kick. Leaving out the details of right and left, open and closed stance, by advancing into range for a hook punch and throwing it hard, you will find that many people evade the hook by covering and bending forward, or snapping their upper body back. Either will take their elbows out of position for defense. You may find the opening to the outside of their elbow as they turn, or their gut as they lean back. If you manage to throw the hook while retreating and they bend forward, you may find their chin.

Set Up 2

Throw several round house kicks with the front kick chamber, programming them to expect the kick to come to their side. It is safer to throw a heavy round house kick by setting it up with a same side cross, making it difficult for them to catch the kick.

Once you have shown them the heavy round house with a front kick chamber, load the kick again but without a setup. Step and draw up the chamber so that they get set to catch your kick. Then simply sneak it between their guard with speed and accuracy. This one takes a lot of people reading.

 

[SummerStriker]

Defending the Front Snap Kick

Having thought it through a little more. I think that the number one defense against the front snap kick should be a simple hop to one side or the other. The hop can be faster than the rechamber. While going to the outside is better, if done all the time the opponent could change to a roundhouse and walk you into it.

Because sometimes you will hop to the open side, it is more important to punish the opponent for having pulled up the chamber so that they use it less often and get less opportunity to practice reading you. The hop to the inside or outside should come slightly in so that you can throw a kick or flurry of punches immediately.

The secondary defense for when you can't move should focus on maintaining a high guard with elbows down and turning at the waist. If the top of their foot smacks and elbow, good. If it passes the elbows, hopefully the turning of the guard will parry the blow to the side. If the kick hits, it won't be likely to penetrate flush and do a lot of damage. If aimed at your face, it should glance away. Because you turn with the defense, you should be loading an immediate counter attack to punish the kick.

What should be used less and less, is the hand dropped to parry the front snap kick.

Edit: If the front snap kick is aimed at your gut lower than your guard, it should be defended by either the hop to the side or by bending at the knees with the turn. Even a standing turn will make it hard for the kick to land flush. Most of the time, a front snap at the lower gut is a bait to get you to drop your hands so the kick can be changed.

Edit 2: Watch this smooth bastard talking about why I don't think people should drop their hand to defend the front snap kick.



Edit 3: Also, against the low FSK, bringing up your knee works pretty well at stopping it. When you bring up your knee, your lower leg gets closer and can stuff it, or makes a target that is too close to get a good angle. It is natural to want to bring up your knee when someone kicks at you, and I think that is a good thing. Just holding a front kick chamber is seen as a defense by old school kick boxers like Superfoot.

 

[MilkManUK]

That Hapkido video is terrible.

 

[panamaican]

Good write up. I'll comment after I finish watching and reading everything.

 

[Fire of Youth]

I agree for the most part. I love the front snap kick though I tend to use it more as a defence; jam the forward movement of my opponent and then follow up with my attacks when they have stopped dead. Or I use it to lower my opponents hands to punch them in the face.

I didn't watch all the defence videos but I did watch the elbow defence video because I primarily use my elbows to defend against kicks. I agree that the first defence is nice in theory but probably too slow to work in reality. However, I use the second defence alot and I find it is awesome. It maintains a good guard (no droppinig of hands). The parry works well with moving in to counter. The elbow to the outside of the foot/ankle hurts like hell. And if the kick comes too slow or at a nice angle, you can turn the parry into an elbow spike easily.

 

[myxallion]

Thank you for this it was really helpful.

 

[SummerStriker]

Thank you for this it was really helpful.

Thanks, glad you liked it.

If there are holes to poke in it, I'm hoping to read about them soon.

 

[a guy]

Nice job with this. The threat of the Brazilian kick really does mess up some of the best defense options haha.

I think the front snap kick is the kind of kick that really needs to be defended preemptively. That's somewhat true for every strike but I feel like it is even more for this one since it's so sneaky and has so much potential to quickly turn into something else. Posture is paramount. If you're leaning forward like Belfort was when Silva knocked him out, you're just begging to get hit by that kick. If you're standing upright or with your weight back, it's gonna be a lot harder to get hit by it even if you just stand there. The most common way to avoid front kicks in MMA is just to back up and it usually works for guys that don't bend forward. Then again, backing up is kind of the most common defense for everything and it's not exactly a good thing in a lot of cases...

I think I agree that the best defense is just to step or hop to a side and let the kick go past you. Hopefully the opponent overcommits and falls forward onto the foot, though they tend to do that less with a snap kick than a push kick.

 

[JesusBenJoseph**]

MT only has 2 types of kicks which I feel like overall isn't enough variety. I feel like in most situations if you learn a 3 or 4 kicks it would be a huge benefit.

 

[spunkbun**]

MT only has 2 types of kicks which I feel like overall isn't enough variety. I feel like in most situations if you learn a 3 or 4 kicks it would be a huge benefit.

Let me guess, you also believe that boxing has only three types of punches?

 

[Chris Beeby]

some thoughts:

since the kick works so well against someone bent over and is so fast and hard to catch, its one of my favorites to use on wrestlers.

it is good to mix with regular front kicks to the body, round teeps to the body, and another kick that i do not know the name of; you throw the round kick normally and turn your kicking foot 180 so the heel lands in place of the shin. after those have been set up the snap kick to the chin, the inside crescent and the axe kick are great options.

in TS' post it was mentioned to use a hook to set it up. i also like to use 1 2s because they can be thrown a bit longer and then when your opponent backs up, or you do, you can throw the snap kick straight through.

i dont have full video but i used it to great effect in my last amateur fight against a guy who was throwing a lot of crazy shit. i used punches to crowd his kicks and when he backed away i kicked. here is video starting at 2:20. feel free not to click it, only one of the snap kicks is shown, but if you are curious check it out. the rest of the video aint bad either.

http://vimeo.com/67559729

 

[Frode Falch]

MT only got two kicks? WTF man..

Just to get you started: Muay Thai got 5-6 different push kicks. And thats just the beginning.

 

[stinkoman]

What has worked for me when throwing the front kick is the relation of my opponents stance and posture. Summer striker mentioned it but for me the more squared up and hunched forward the easier I can land it especially towards the head just like the Travis browne/overeem Lyoto/ couture fights

Here is a clip of Kenji Midori teaching a front kick variation he used in some kyokushin tournaments. Its kinda like a front kick/ side kick hybrid where he throws a front kick but turns it over at the end like a side kick still hitting with the ball of his foot to get more reach, and the foot does not go directly into the elbows. its from 1:34 onward http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxjuv8dXvDQ&feature=player_embedded

 

[SummerStriker]

So, I was wrong about a few things in my opening posts, mostly because I wasn't thinking right and left through very well. Total genius.

This parry:



Is done right against right / left against left because it leaves the other hand up in guard position. If the kicker changes the kick to a snap round house kick like so:



Your other hand is still in place to guard your head. To make the feint worthwhile, the round house would have to be very precise.

If you are dealing with a high level TKD practitioner, and you are trying to parry the front kick, the one you have to look out for is this:

 

[SAAMAG]

You don't need to "add" a front rising kick to Muay Thai because it already exists. However, I like the direction you're going with this. I used to spam front snap kicks to set up other kicks. Much like a jab is spammed to set up punches.

Works great to sneak in round kicks and reverse kicks, as well as side kicks and other punches. The front kick is also a great follow on to punches to act in the same way as an uppercut does, and it's also a great counter for the same reason (similar to a counter uppercut).

Looking forward to seeing what else you come up with.

 

[nomilkforsanta]

Let me guess, you also believe that boxing has only three types of punches?

90% of the time you see elite muay thai coachs/fighters using:

1) Round kick and its variations in height and distance
2) Teep with its variations in height and distance

Rarely do you see spin kicks, hand stand kicks, oblique kicks or anything else fancy in Lumpinee/Rajadamnern or when watching/training with elite level muay thai practitioners.

Maybe I have been biased by the Fairtex style of MT (Jongsanan, Ganyo, Coke, Ahn adn their students) and Roufuspots (Duke in milwaukee, and Derek at AKA).

 

[SummerStriker]

You don't need to "add" a front rising kick to Muay Thai because it already exists. However, I like the direction you're going with this. I used to spam front snap kicks to set up other kicks. Much like a jab is spammed to set up punches.

Works great to sneak in round kicks and reverse kicks, as well as side kicks and other punches. The front kick is also a great follow on to punches to act in the same way as an uppercut does, and it's also a great counter for the same reason (similar to a counter uppercut).

Looking forward to seeing what else you come up with.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I've got one for you I'd be curious what you think of. I've gotten "good effect" from it, though when I tell people about it they usually tell me that it wouldn't work on someone who is more conditioned, which I'm not sure about.

In any case, it is only for a hard sparring session, and only if your opponent doesn't have a fight coming up. More so - I only use this when I think the other person is trying to injure me, so that I don't have to have a conscience about it.

When someone throws a kick at your leg that you are able to check, look to see where exactly the shins click if you can't tell. As your opponent puts his foot down, you have an opportunity to throw basically anything you want. The faster, the more likely it is to hit - and almost the fastest thing you can do is a low front snap kick. So I use the ball of the foot and try to hit the spot on the shin right where the shins made contact.

If I can, I'll hit it a third time, using the other foot if I have to. I haven't met many people who can keep kicking on that side after I do this. Better still, the pain causes them to flinch more anytime I feint a kick, so I can start using the threat to throw bigger kicks. Like Bruce said, the best way to set up a kick is by causing fear through pain.

 

[spunkbun**]

90% of the time you see elite muay thai coachs/fighters using:

1) Round kick and its variations in height and distance
2) Teep with its variations in height and distance

Rarely do you see spin kicks, hand stand kicks, oblique kicks or anything else fancy in Lumpinee/Rajadamnern or when watching/training with elite level muay thai practitioners.

Maybe I have been biased by the Fairtex style of MT (Jongsanan, Ganyo, Coke, Ahn adn their students) and Roufuspots (Duke in milwaukee, and Derek at AKA).

Can't blame them for sticking to what works. Just because Saenchai gets away with cartwheel kicks and twist kicks (which he seldom does against hist best opponents mind you) doesn't mean that it's a viable offense for the rest of the elites in MT. The risk of getting countered when doing fancy spinning shit is far too high at that level of competition that it's most of the time simply not worth throwing such techniques unless the opponent is inferior.
As for the front snap kick I have seen it used several times against the face but against the body I think the risk of breaking the toes against the elbows is too high.

 

[Frode Falch]

You see alot of different kicks at high levels in Thailand.

- Light teep (almost like a foot jab)
- Strong lead push kick
- Strong rear push kick
- Strong stepping in lead push kick
- Different variations of a hybrid teep/sidekick
- Rear teep with a jump after lifting the lead foot (feint)
- A walking one-two teep combination

And this is just talking about frontkick variations.. dont get me started on the roundkicks.