Inside Trip

SummerStriker

SummerStriker

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The last couple weeks I've been working on my inside trip takedown. I'm learning it from the assistant instructor from an mma gym, who I have seen use it repeatedly and effectively sparring MMA with people. I've got it down pretty good and like the idea of it a lot.

One thing I thought was peculiar is that it isn't a part of the USA wrestling curriculum and the two highschool wrestlers who train with us (MMA, not wrestling) did not know the technique (nor did they know the arm spin takedown).

Near as I can tell, people don't learn it in wrestling until college and I've never seen it in a BJJ class. I only know of it because it is popular with the MMA crowd.

What say you? Why isn't this move more popular? Why isn't it popular with youth and high school wrestling... or is it? I find it unlikely that it is because the move is dangerous, given the nature of some of the other things that are allowed. Do you do it in your BJJ gym?
 
It's a pretty awkward motion and there are easier techniques to learn, many of which are less risk with similar reward, especially in folkstyle. Also, coaches have a limited amount of time to teach so unless their team has a bunch of high level wrestlers, there are a lot of techniques that are more effective for newer wrestlers.

It's a better move for freestyle, which isn't nearly as practiced as folkstyle in the U.S., because you can score 4 points easily, whereas in folkstyle you would have to hold him for back points. My thoughts on the matter from my experience as a coach.
 
youngsteinel said:
It's a pretty awkward motion and there are easier techniques to learn, many of which are less risk with similar reward, especially in folkstyle. Also, coaches have a limited amount of time to teach so unless their team has a bunch of high level wrestlers, there are a lot of techniques that are more effective for newer wrestlers.

It's a better move for freestyle, which isn't nearly as practiced as folkstyle in the U.S., because you can score 4 points easily, whereas in folkstyle you would have to hold him for back points. My thoughts on the matter from my experience as a coach.
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I appreciate the insight. I have a tenancy to become enamored with clever techniques and sometimes wonder why they aren't more popular.

Despite the complexity of MMA, sometimes at the entry level into the sport people become oddly good at specific high level technical moves and they work out well in competition because most opponents do not have years in the sport developing the base of each art. When they are applied aggressively, a lot of the time there is no coherent defense. I feel like the inside trip, for some of these guys, might fall into that category.

Like, if I saw a guy during his first or second fight hit a superman punch, inside trip, spinning hook kick and spinning arm bar, I wouldn't be that surprised.
 
Kids get taught this everywhere, although it is a higher level move.

If you see a guy hitting an inside trip in college, I guarantee you he was good at that move long before college. When you get to college wrestling in America, which is a very elite level of athletics, you pretty much know just about everything all ready. The only thing you learn are very small details and variations of what you are already good at. Most guys who are good in college wrestle with the same skillsets they built as youth/scholastic wrestlers.
 
One of my favorite takedowns to do. You need to get in close to get it and you see a lot of wrestlers staying outside more ia why I think its a bit more uncommon. Ian Miller is my favorite person to watch do it. It's like the first move in almost all of his takedown sequences.

Holt question do you prefer to trip underhook side or overhook side?
 
BatBoyJG said:
One of my favorite takedowns to do. You need to get in close to get it and you see a lot of wrestlers staying outside more ia why I think its a bit more uncommon. Ian Miller is my favorite person to watch do it. It's like the first move in almost all of his takedown sequences.

Holt question do you prefer to trip underhook side or overhook side?
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I know it wasn't directed at me but I would advise tripping on the underhook side, as if you end up with your tripping leg in half guard you will have an underhook. But if you trip with your overhook then you could end up giving them the underhook, which can be used to sweep or stand
 
I had a teammate in High School who was a four time placer and state champ in division I Ohio. His primary takedown was an inside trip. He could hit it from everywhere even from not tied up, overhook, underhook, russian tie etc. He used it to win his state title in overtime and made dirty flo takedown of the week
 
I learned it in high school wrestling, but did it more in no gi grappling and BJJ. The reason for me at least is that the stances seem to be different. I mainly hit it from an over/under clinch and trip on the "over" side, and that position is actually less common in folkstyle wrestling than in the BJJ/MMA world, at least when we're talking about an over/under clinch where the opponent's legs are close enough to trip like that.

Not saying it's never seen in high school or college wrestling, but this is just my experience. It's hard to hit an inside trip on a bent-over stance with the opponent's legs well protected.
 
SummerStriker said:
I appreciate the insight. I have a tenancy to become enamored with clever techniques and sometimes wonder why they aren't more popular.

Despite the complexity of MMA, sometimes at the entry level into the sport people become oddly good at specific high level technical moves and they work out well in competition because most opponents do not have years in the sport developing the base of each art. When they are applied aggressively, a lot of the time there is no coherent defense. I feel like the inside trip, for some of these guys, might fall into that category.

Like, if I saw a guy during his first or second fight hit a superman punch, inside trip, spinning hook kick and spinning arm bar, I wouldn't be that surprised.
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Holt's right. Daton Fix (Soph. in HS in Oklahoma) has a sweet inside trip, and a wrestler named Ian Miller from Kent State did it a lot, you can tell he has done the inside trip and his other moves in his skill set for a long time. Here is his highlight, he hit it a bunch, sometimes when to a double leg lift if he didn't finish the trip.



The question wasn't directed at me, but I like to trip to my overhook side from over/under and I see that more commonly.
 
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It's one of the most common takedowns in Judo, where it's called ouchi gari. It is a complex motion and requires more work to get down than say a single leg, but it's a great TD.

Hopefully someone with exposure to scholastic wrestling can tell me if I'm wrong about this, but I always figured you saw fewer attacks like inside trips in high school wrestling because coaches don't seem to spend a lot of time on upper body clinching, and throws like inside trips usually result from a wrestler getting good position in the clinch from a more upright (freestyle-ish) stance. You can't lock hands in US folk, right?
 
I love this move. It's such a great move to use on taller guys when you have both double unders. When I'm in a 50/50 clinch I prefer either side depending on my opponents weight distribution and reactions.
 
It is a great throw in judo, but as Uchi-Mata says it is technically somewhat difficult. The reason it works so well in judo is because it beautifully counters the forward throw defense, a classic combination. Go in for uchi-mata, finish with ouchi gari, or vice versa. In wrestling, I suspect you tend to have less extreme defensive reaction to work with, so it is generally harder to hit that inside trip.
 
Zankou said:
It is a great throw in judo, but as Uchi-Mata says it is technically somewhat difficult. The reason it works so well in judo is because it beautifully counters the forward throw defense, a classic combination. Go in for uchi-mata, finish with ouchi gari, or vice versa. In wrestling, I suspect you tend to have less extreme defensive reaction to work with, so it is generally harder to hit that inside trip.
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Well, that and the stances. The more upright you are, the more opportunities there are to hit an inside trip because it's easier to achieve chest to chest contact. It's one reason you see more ouchis are higher weight classes, as their stances tend to be more upright. You really don't see it nearly as often with the smaller guys, where rear throws in general are rarer.
 
Uchi Mata said:
It's one of the most common takedowns in Judo, where it's called ouchi gari. It is a complex motion and requires more work to get down than say a single leg, but it's a great TD.

Hopefully someone with exposure to scholastic wrestling can tell me if I'm wrong about this, but I always figured you saw fewer attacks like inside trips in high school wrestling because coaches don't seem to spend a lot of time on upper body clinching, and throws like inside trips usually result from a wrestler getting good position in the clinch from a more upright (freestyle-ish) stance. You can't lock hands in US folk, right?
Click to expand...

The reason you don't see see most scholastic coaches spending a lot of time on upper body throws or "clever" moves is the "80/20 rule" or the "Pareto Principle" in a real world practical application. (The Pareto Principle being that 80% of the results come from 20% of the techniques). The basic skills of: single leg, double leg, sprawls/baseline defense, handfighting, conditioning, holding position, and front headlocks, will give you the most bang for your buck. Especially considering that the average high school coach has to get anywhere from 15 to 50 kids of vastly varying skill levels on the same page and hitting the techniques with limited time and expected to produce results. Also not every kid is good at throwing and failure on a lot of throws mean getting put on your back and potentially pinned.

Focusing on the "basic"skills and then refining them as the wrestler gets more advanced is a big part of Iowa's success over the last 30+ years. Every high level high school team that consistently is nationally ranked and/or competes for team state titles is built around and usually known for how solid and fundamental their wrestlers usually are. Regardless of where they are in the country. Schools like Blair Academy NJ, Lakewood St. Eds OH, St. Paris Graham OH, Archbishop Moeller OH, Apple Valley MN, Wyoming Bishop Seminary PA, Cleveland TN, Bradley Central TN, Clovis CA, Pope GA, Archer GA, Buford GA, Brandon FL. Are ALL built around, and focus on the basic 20% of skills that produce the most results. Even Schools like Brandon known for their throwing and freestyle/Greco success


Also it has to be considered that unlike the Russians/Eastern Block freestyle wrestlers who have a more diverse range of attacks, especially in upper body; is that scholastic wrestlers have a very set and limited time to achieve results, so the highest percentage techniques are going to be focused on. Finally, qualified coaches to teach good upper body techniques/throws like Holt are very hard to find compared to quality and quanity coaches for the other basic skills I've talked about
 
Uchi Mata said:
It's one of the most common takedowns in Judo, where it's called ouchi gari. It is a complex motion and requires more work to get down than say a single leg, but it's a great TD.

Hopefully someone with exposure to scholastic wrestling can tell me if I'm wrong about this, but I always figured you saw fewer attacks like inside trips in high school wrestling because coaches don't seem to spend a lot of time on upper body clinching, and throws like inside trips usually result from a wrestler getting good position in the clinch from a more upright (freestyle-ish) stance. You can't lock hands in US folk, right?
Click to expand...

I guess is more common in eastern Europe countries where Judo and Wrestling are at the same level and available in the same gyms...
 
jack36767 said:
The reason you don't see see most scholastic coaches spending a lot of time on upper body throws or "clever" moves is the "80/20 rule" or the "Pareto Principle" in a real world practical application. (The Pareto Principle being that 80% of the results come from 20% of the techniques). The basic skills of: single leg, double leg, sprawls/baseline defense, handfighting, conditioning, holding position, and front headlocks, will give you the most bang for your buck. Especially considering that the average high school coach has to get anywhere from 15 to 50 kids of vastly varying skill levels on the same page and hitting the techniques with limited time and expected to produce results. Also not every kid is good at throwing and failure on a lot of throws mean getting put on your back and potentially pinned.

Focusing on the "basic"skills and then refining them as the wrestler gets more advanced is a big part of Iowa's success over the last 30+ years. Every high level high school team that consistently is nationally ranked and/or competes for team state titles is built around and usually known for how solid and fundamental their wrestlers usually are. Regardless of where they are in the country. Schools like Blair Academy NJ, Lakewood St. Eds OH, St. Paris Graham OH, Archbishop Moeller OH, Apple Valley MN, Wyoming Bishop Seminary PA, Cleveland TN, Bradley Central TN, Clovis CA, Pope GA, Archer GA, Buford GA, Brandon FL. Are ALL built around, and focus on the basic 20% of skills that produce the most results. Even Schools like Brandon known for their throwing and freestyle/Greco success


Also it has to be considered that unlike the Russians/Eastern Block freestyle wrestlers who have a more diverse range of attacks, especially in upper body; is that scholastic wrestlers have a very set and limited time to achieve results, so the highest percentage techniques are going to be focused on. Finally, qualified coaches to teach good upper body techniques/throws like Holt are very hard to find compared to quality and quanity coaches for the other basic skills I've talked about
Click to expand...

This post is pretty pretty good...
 
Chungungo said:
I guess is more common in eastern Europe countries where Judo and Wrestling are at the same level and available in the same gyms...
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That and outside the US people focus more on the international styles where upper body throws are more common. You really don't see them all that often in American folk.
 
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