I lost my believe in bjj

[lechien]

After watching countless amount of BJJ matches.
Yes, I call them matches and not fights.
I came to the conclusion that I no longer believe or agree with the lack of confrontation during tachi waza. That is the stand up.. Takedown part.

I do not even mind the quick double pull guard from our fellow rooster orange 12 years competitors. At least they are trying something.

But watching the masters just keep stalling because they do not know how to handle themselves is no excuse and make me ashamed.

The younger black belts are getting better but not good enough.

They still do that boring push and shoving until the referee start penalising and an idiot pulls a bad guard.

End of the rant.

Time to move to judo.

But even in judo, the transition to the mats does not please me as well.

What can we do as a club?

Build more hybrids?

 

[loyalyolayal]

Train how you want it. Compete by their rule set.

 

[wordspeaker]

If I ran a school, it would not be a brazillian jiu jitsu one.

I would call it a free style jiu jitsu club.

I would teach grappling in the gi, and grappling without the gi.

The curriculum I taught would have little to no regard for the point scoring matches of particular competitions. But the techniques I taught would all be taken (although potentially modified) from existing grappling arts that practice with aliveness. BJJ, Judo, Sambo, Wrestling (in all its forms). I would try to take techniques from these arts that together form a complete grappling system with defensive control and offensive options from every situation one encounters in grappling.

I would then urge my students to enter as many competitions as they can in whatever areas they excel (or seek to improve) at. I.e. Judo competitions, sambo competitions, bjj competitions and wrestling comps.

Students would end up receiving rank from me in BJJ if they performed well in bjj comps, earn belts in judo by winning judo matches against higher belts and work their way up whatever wrestling and/or sambo rankings exist as per their performance.

I would not expect the students to be the best at anything. If someone is winning matches in multiple arts using what they learn in freestyle sparring, they are doing very well.

Basically: If you are trying to build the perfect grappler, there is no single best rule set. You achieve strength through diversity. Diversity of rulesets, and diversity of opponents. You carry a broad bow, and you learn how to adapt, make do and improvise.

To do this, you would need a very diverse staff and open minded students.

This grappler might not win the world champs in anything. But he will be confident and respected in ANY gym he goes to in the world.

Im not quite sure how else to consistently build balanced grapplers. No single competitions form offers everything they need.

 

[SummerStriker]

BJJ is the best grappling art for self defense, because in the hands of a journeyman kickboxer, an amateur BJJ enthusiast will attack and defend takedowns as well as a wrestler or judoka, but he won't have to, and be safe from all kinds of larger people.

And that's what makes it great. The freedom in the rules helps people know that there is more and more important things to learn, rather than chasing takedowns that aren't really there so you can admire yourself.

What high level competition looks like is a curiosity, but it doesnt matter. The average use is for self defense and law enforcement, and BJJ provides that.

 

[SummerStriker]

From personal experience though, if there is anything wrong with stand up BJJ, it's that you guys do too many gimmicky bullshit takedowns with oddly specific gi gripping you aren't really going to do, and get paralysed feebly clutching at clothing until you give up and shoot a head down double or sit on your asses.

I'd pick like 7-8 moves that work gi or no gi, that provide counters for the basic positions and one another, and just do those, instead of 25 different three step chains you can't remember.

 

[wordspeaker]

BJJ is the best grappling art for self defense,

There is not best art. Only artists and techniques.

 

[Codger]

The first thing is stop putting so much emphasis on winning competitions because that's what's ruining the art.
People want to win competitions by any means necessary and the rules mean that take-downs are not important. So clubs who train competitors fail to teach stand-up with excuses like "the mat's too crowded" or "it causes too many injuries".
When you start 90% of training from the knees, it's hardly surprising that the masters don't know how to take one another down.
I personally don't like the double guard pull either.

 

[loyalyolayal]

After watching countless amount of BJJ matches.
Yes, I call them matches and not fights.
I came to the conclusion that I no longer believe or agree with the lack of confrontation during tachi waza. That is the stand up.. Takedown part.

I do not even mind the quick double pull guard from our fellow rooster orange 12 years competitors. At least they are trying something.

But watching the masters just keep stalling because they do not know how to handle themselves is no excuse and make me ashamed.

The younger black belts are getting better but not good enough.

They still do that boring push and shoving until the referee start penalising and an idiot pulls a bad guard.

End of the rant.

Time to move to judo.

But even in judo, the transition to the mats does not please me as well.

What can we do as a club?

Build more hybrids?

I thought you're running your own school? In my old academy's curriculum, there are a number throws that you have to learn before getting promoted. In my last academy we just drill osoto gari, ankle pick & drop seoi for gi & singles & doubles for nogi.

 

[lechien]

I thought you're running your own school? In my old academy's curriculum, there are a number throws that you have to learn before getting promoted. In my last academy we just drill osoto gari, ankle pick & drop seoi for gi & singles & doubles for nogi.

I do run my own.

It is just the BJJ comp that I watched.

I just lost my hope in BJJ competition

 

[loyalyolayal]

 

[Calibur]

I do run my own.

It is just the BJJ comp that I watched.

I just lost my hope in BJJ competition

Then change the competition rules. No one will improve at an aspect of competition that is completely optional.

 

[Tokpaul]

This is why I've changed to focus almost exclusively on Nogi grappling... I'm much more excited by the faster pace of the nogi game vs. the gi, especially when it comes to the takedowns. In nogi, wrestling is much more important. Personally, I suck at wrestling and I'm trying hard to improve my skills. In my opinion, the wrestling techniques mixed in with leglocks makes for an extremely exciting and fun version of grappling.

The gi slows the pace down too much. I love grappling with the gi but my game is changing much more so that its better suited for nogi competition. I'm excited to see where this goes.

 

[jr jr]

Our school primarily does bjj. We are also USJA Judo school and we teach stand up in every class. We compete in Judo as well as BJJ. We also have several old high school wrestlers with high level bjj/judo (purple, brown, and black belts). We play standup with all takedowns allowed (wrestling or bjj). Sure it hurts us in competition but I dont mind. We still do fine. We are not willing to give up our Judo heritage for the modern BJJ rules. We are also not willing to give up sound mat work for the Judo bullshittery that has gone on in the last 15 years.

 

[RJ Green]

isn't it amazing how many combat athletes are afraid to lose? i've never accomplished anything with my life but i can't imagine a 4-year slog to an olympic Judo berth ending because you/your opponent lost/won for stalling.

in my perfect world you wouldn't 'win' a grappling match without defeating your opponent, and if that means both people lose when time expires okay.

"But what if someone could just stall until we both lost?"

Well, if someone can shut you down, you didn't win.

Plus, you know, at the end of the day they're the ones that have to wear those medals. They know what it took to earn them.

For some people, a bronze medal on advantages in a 4-person bracket is an accomplishment. Other people get a silver medal at the Big Ten Championships and throw that shit in the garbage before even leaving the building.

Some people show up to win points, some people show up to win.

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

Maybe instead of moving to Judo you could just switch focus to applying your BJJ to "fighting" where taking someone down and controlling from the top is important.

I'm just a blue belt and I only compete once a year but I very rarely ever watch sport BJJ tournaments and could hardly name any current sport competitors for all the grievances you cite above.

 

[sb413197]

After watching countless amount of BJJ matches.
Yes, I call them matches and not fights.
I came to the conclusion that I no longer believe or agree with the lack of confrontation during tachi waza. That is the stand up.. Takedown part.

I do not even mind the quick double pull guard from our fellow rooster orange 12 years competitors. At least they are trying something.

But watching the masters just keep stalling because they do not know how to handle themselves is no excuse and make me ashamed.

The younger black belts are getting better but not good enough.

They still do that boring push and shoving until the referee start penalising and an idiot pulls a bad guard.

End of the rant.

Time to move to judo.

But even in judo, the transition to the mats does not please me as well.

What can we do as a club?

Build more hybrids?

It's tough as an old dude. Personally I would love for my takedown game to get better but I'm kinda busted up - currently recovering from an knee MCL injury and worried that training wrestling would hurt me worse...I don't know, it's a tough problem. I can still roll in BJJ class though which I find enjoyable so that's what I do.

But it's true, having a good wrestling/takedown game seems particularly important for masters and heavyweights - divisions where you don't see a lot of berimbolo'ing and crazy flexible gumbyguards. Our guys that do great in Masters divisions almost always have a strong wrestling base or have specifically trained their wrestling/takedowns.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

sport bjj is sport bjj, learning how to choke people out works in sport and sd situation.

If you dont like the sportive aspect, so be it, who cares? if you want your guys to be good at stand up, make them drill stand up, if you want your guys to be good at taken people down FOR SD situations, make them spar with strikes, After all, tachiwaza without strikes is really not that much different from ground game without strikes, specially without the gi, Yes you know how to throw people to the ground, not that easy when people is trying to puch your head off, just like on the ground, yes you know how to armbar someone or triangle someone on the ground, not that easy when dude on top is trying to make a hole in your head...

I am a firm believer on bjj as a sd art, I do not think you need to train MT or MMA if you want SD, that is absurd in my opinion, you do need to spar with strikes if you want your bjj to have a SD use though.

 

[Zankou]

The problem is that good standup grappling simply does not happen without complex and highly artificial rulesets that force the action.

I recall watching Saulo in the Mundials work standup. He has excellent judo, but looked like shit, super boring and defensive grappling, wanted to claw my eyes out from boredom. And you see this from many guys.

If we want better standup matches in BJJ comp, it will have to be by creating and using HIGHLY artificial rules. Many BJJ guys don't get this because it is antithetical to the BJJ ideal. But things like forcing takedown attempts, penalizing inactivity and false attempts, penalizing defensive moves/grips. And penalizing guard pulls, perhaps later in the match, perhaps earlier, so you are incentivized to attack early.

Of course that would look a lot more like judo, but if that's basically what you want to see--judo/wrestling portions of a match--it's inevitable.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

The problem is that good standup grappling simply does not happen without complex and highly artificial rulesets that force the action.

I recall watching Saulo in the Mundials work standup. He has excellent judo, but looked like shit, super boring and defensive grappling, wanted to claw my eyes out from boredom. And you see this from many guys.

If we want better standup matches in BJJ comp, it will have to be by creating and using HIGHLY artificial rules. Many BJJ guys don't get this because it is antithetical to the BJJ ideal. But things like forcing takedown attempts, penalizing inactivity and false attempts, penalizing defensive moves/grips. And penalizing guard pulls, perhaps later in the match, perhaps earlier, so you are incentivized to attack early.

Of course that would look a lot more like judo, but if that's basically what you want to see--judo/wrestling portions of a match--it's inevitable.

exactly..

 

[Big Nasty Edison]

sport bjj is sport bjj, learning how to choke people out works in sport and sd situation.

If you dont like the sportive aspect, so be it, who cares? if you want your guys to be good at stand up, make them drill stand up, if you want your guys to be good at taken people down FOR SD situations, make them spar with strikes, After all, tachiwaza without strikes is really not that much different from ground game without strikes, specially without the gi, Yes you know how to throw people to the ground, not that easy when people is trying to puch your head off, just like on the ground, yes you know how to armbar someone or triangle someone on the ground, not that easy when dude on top is trying to make a whole in your head...

I am a firm believer on bjj as a sd art, I do not think you need to train MT or MMA if you want SD, that is absurd in my opinion, you do need to spar with strikes if you want your bjj to have a SD use though.

Agree 100%