I fail to see what's wrong with the teepee

[Anthas]

So I heard about the teepee when I first started bjj, but forgot about it because everyone said I should focus on the basic triangle and so I did. My triangle is better now but I still think it's just not suited for my body type. Anyway, yesterday somebody told me about te teepee again, and we were working on it. I fail to see any mechanical problem that should make it worst than a regular triangle. I even find it easier to get. After studing the Ryan Hall triangle and arm triangle set, i find the teepee to follow the same patern all good triangles do, use strong muscles, leg on carotid A shoulder on carotid B, etc... What am I failing to see? Why is it considered a low percentage movement? Anyone has really experimented with it?

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

It's lower percentage relative to a fully locked triangle because you have to maintain a lot of pressure to keep it, rather than the triangle where you shift use of muscles once it's locked. It's also a less secure hold than the fully locked triangle.

I've used it when the guy was too big for me to close a regular triangle. (I think we're talking about the same move here, some of these names are inconsistent ant rarely used.)

 

[Anthas]

It's lower percentage relative to a fully locked triangle because you have to maintain a lot of pressure to keep it, rather than the triangle where you shift use of muscles once it's locked. It's also a less secure hold than the fully locked triangle.

I've used it when the guy was too big for me to close a regular triangle. (I think we're talking about the same move here, some of these names are inconsistent ant rarely used.)

Thanks! Yes, it's definetely the same move. Triangle threatening position, s grip behind your own legs and extend them.

Yesterday I was finishing it while only holding the head, without the s grip... the guy can't posture up and you should be extending your legs more than pinching your knees, right? so I didn't feel I needed the s grip. Also you don't risk the guy taking his arm out if you put your leg in his hip to get an angle like you do sometimes in a regular triangle...

I feel it's an interesting move that you can hit really quick... and the strong legs that hold me back in the triangle work like a charm for this move:icon_chee

 

[HEAVY GRAPPLER]

If you watch Ryan Hall's triangle DVD, you will see that with the right angle your short legs are an advantage to finishing the triangle.

 

[Toothless King]

i won a match @ a local tournament as a white belt with a teepee after a failed triangle attempt. i don't know if that will work in the higher belts though

 

[Luther]

The higher belt I've seen the teepee working was from Sean Roberts, purple or brown.

Would love to see it at black belt.

 

[Anthas]

If you watch Ryan Hall's triangle DVD, you will see that with the right angle your short legs are an advantage to finishing the triangle.

Yes, I agree, once my triangle is locked it's really tight... It's just that locking takes more effort. But I'm not bashing the triangle at all, obviously... I just wanted to know why some times the teepee get's so much hate and if it has been used by someone at a high level.

 

[david5]

it works, and i use it. BUT, it needs way more power and it puts pressure through your lower back

 

[SBJ]

 

[Irenaeus]

Huh. I always thought it was called the Tipi, based on the shape of the up-pointed ankles.

No wonder folk etymology is a dodgy field.

 

[Anthas]

it works, and i use it. BUT, it needs way more power and it puts pressure through your lower back

Thanks! Great to hear it works for you at your level. I'll work on it then... I didn't feel so much force was needed, but that maybe because I have pretty strong legs for my height of 1,75.

 

[AboveThisFire]

I use it all the time when I can't angle off and fully lock a triangle, I have very long limbs however and am not a small guy.

If it makes you feel more confident though I was taught the move once at a Bruno Frazzatto seminar (although I knew it beforehand), I'd say he's a pretty damn legitimate source...

 

[Vitamin C]

I find that (when done on me) it feels like it will break or dislocate ribs before I would actually pass out, so I kinda lump it in with just crushing the guys ribs from guard.

i.e. it works, but is a pretty douchey finish. Perhaps that's just because I've subluxed a rib before, but others have also said when learning it in class that they felt a lot of pressure through their chest and ribs.

 

[JustTheTip]

I find that (when done on me) it feels like it will break or dislocate ribs before I would actually pass out, so I kinda lump it in with just crushing the guys ribs from guard.

i.e. it works, but is a pretty douchey finish. Perhaps that's just because I've subluxed a rib before, but others have also said when learning it in class that they felt a lot of pressure through their chest and ribs.

You are thinking of a different technique.I used to hate the one you are describing as well.

 

[Vitamin C]

You are thinking of a different technique.I used to hate the one you are describing as well.

No, its the same.

Triangle position, so one leg around the neck, one leg under the armpit. Instead of locking down the triangle, you extend your ankles and grip behind your legs and squeeze.

Kills my ribs. I tap because they feel like they are going to pop, but I feel almost no real threat of strangulation.

 

[Irenaeus]

No, its the same.

Triangle position, so one leg around the neck, one leg under the armpit. Instead of locking down the triangle, you extend your ankles and grip behind your legs and squeeze.

Kills my ribs. I tap because they feel like they are going to pop, but I feel almost no real threat of strangulation.

That's a little weird. I've never experienced it being low enough that the ribs are affected at all.

 

[Mikey Triangles]

It's lower percentage relative to a fully locked triangle because you have to maintain a lot of pressure to keep it, rather than the triangle where you shift use of muscles once it's locked. It's also a less secure hold than the fully locked triangle.

I've used it when the guy was too big for me to close a regular triangle. (I think we're talking about the same move here, some of these names are inconsistent ant rarely used.)

/thread]


That really covers it. Of course it can be effective, but it offers less control and lower percentage finishing rate compared to other options from the identical situation.

 

[Vitamin C]

That's a little weird. I've never experienced it being low enough that the ribs are affected at all.

It's not low. I think it has to do with the fact that the pressure is being applied in a straight line from the armpit to the far side of the neck. It cuts through the body, rather than the neck.

The comments I have heard from my training partners when learning this technique essentially stated that they were tapping because of pain in the ribs, the shoulder, pain in the neck (crank). No one really said they felt their lights going out. Maybe it would if you held on long enough, who knows. I know I tap because I don't want my bad rib to pop back out. Others are protecting their shoulders primarily.

I watched the video that SBJ just posted. The guy taps, then rubs his shoulder. Reminds me of how I feel after working on or being hit with a teepee.

 

[mattemate]

Huh. Can't believe I've never seen that. It's weird, I used to catch everyone with my triangle, and since I've been back I'm not finishing with it-- I think I actually haven't tapped anyone with it once. But I've used it a lot to set up sweeps and armbars. Still, I feel like I should be finishing with it more. Gonna have to tighten it up.

Teepee looks legit, but it does seem to require a lot of muscle. It looks like grip strength is the most important thing, and I have good grip strength. But I also have long skinny legs so I think I won't have to resort to it. Still looks like something fun to try.

 

[Irenaeus]

It's not low. I think it has to do with the fact that the pressure is being applied in a straight line from the armpit to the far side of the neck. It cuts through the body, rather than the neck.

The comments I have heard from my training partners when learning this technique essentially stated that they were tapping because of pain in the ribs, the shoulder, pain in the neck (crank). No one really said they felt their lights going out. Maybe it would if you held on long enough, who knows. I know I tap because I don't want my bad rib to pop back out. Others are protecting their shoulders primarily.

I watched the video that SBJ just posted. The guy taps, then rubs his shoulder. Reminds me of how I feel after working on or being hit with a teepee.

Discomfort in the shoulder is definitely something I associate with this, but while I have concerns about popping ribs or rotation injuries to my shoudlers, I've never really felt that pressure againt the shoulder from that direction was a potential souce of injury, and as I said, I've never felt it on the ribs.

I haven't stayed in it that long, and people don't go for it regularly around here, but my experience is that it might be a very uncomfortable choke, but it's a legit choke none the less.