How much do you prioritize padwork in training?

[DeepFry]

I used to think it was the be all and end all of striking training.

Serious workout.

Then I got injured and ended up doing strictly conditioning routines for a few months straight on a heavy bag (100 continuous kicks either side, 100 body shots, 100 hooks, 100 knees etc).

Whilst using psychological visualization, study and shadow boxing to drill technical elements, footwork etc.

When I went back to training in a gym, I was absolutely on point on every count.

And cause of my conditioning routine despite not weight lifting, I was in killer shape.

Over the following 12 months I was exclusively in the gym and ended up going back to pad work, easing off the conditioning.
I tried to do both for a while but the body can only do so much - so I thought, padwork must be better, right?

Noticeable dis-improvement.

Gym is essential to get some sparring in, and for technical drills I think dutch style pairs work (what Duane Ludwig now uses in his coaching) is by far superior to conventional pads.

i.e.



But when all is said and done that rigorous conditioning routine still worked for me better than anything else for striking performance.

Simply cause all strikes were so sharp and on point.

 

[Badoldman]

I used to think it was the be all and end all of striking training.

Serious workout.

Then I got injured and ended up doing strictly conditioning routines for a few months straight on a heavy bag (100 continuous kicks either side, 100 body shots, 100 hooks, 100 knees etc).

Whilst using psychological visualization, study and shadow boxing to drill technical elements, footwork etc.

When I went back to training in a gym, I was absolutely on point on every count.

And cause of my conditioning routine despite not weight lifting, I was in killer shape.

Over the following 12 months I was exclusively in the gym and ended up going back to pad work, easing off the conditioning.
I tried to do both for a while but the body can only do so much - so I thought, padwork must be better, right?

Noticeable dis-improvement.

Gym is essential to get some sparring in, and for technical drills I think dutch style pairs work (what Duane Ludwig now uses in his coaching) is by far superior to conventional pads.

i.e.



But when all is said and done that rigorous conditioning routine still worked for me better than anything else for striking performance.

Simply cause all strikes were so sharp and on point.

There is an old adage in boxing that bears repeating. If you are going to train 3 hours, 1/4 of that time should be conditioning, 1/2 of that time should be technique and 1/4 of that time should be application of that technique in actual boxing. Now you and I know that you can condition while working technique. But your sharpness had to be attributed to the technique you worked on. The first thing a person wants to do when they enter a boxing gym is start punching things. The very first trainer I ever had, 44 yrs ago, wanted me tired, very tired before he’d let me begin punching things. He told me anyone can look sharp when they’re fresh. But the flaws in my technique revealed themselves when I was tired. Not turning my hook over, not extending my arm fully, not moving my head, etc... He said when I am fatigued, whatever I’m used to will return. It’s then that the metal is hot, it’s then that I’ll return to what I know coming in off the street. He said it’s then that we form the metal and remove the imperfections. I still train 6-7 days a week. I spend a lot of time getting tired, then I begin boxing. Your workout stands scrutiny and you very likely got in the best shape of your life. It was the incredible condition you were in when you applied your technique. I spoke to my old trainer after Deontay Wilder was beaten by Fury. He’s an 89 year old former Olympic boxing coach and trained both Oscar De La Hoya and Shane Mosley for the Olympics. He said Wilder’s power could not solve the problems he faced in Fury. When he began getting tired, his technique was poor and it failed him. I spend 1/2 of my training time on technique to this day. It’s tedious and repetitive but when I spar now. (57 yrs old and still sparring) I can stay in the session with a younger, bigger, stronger and better boxer because I’ve trained so much on my technique. Example: my son is a 21 year old amateur who is undefeated right now. He’s been away from the boxing gym and has great big gym muscles from lifting. He is a southpaw and is a very busy fighter. Throws lots of punches. When I am trying to corner him, or set up something, I get in range and move my head. It temporarily freezes him and most other boxers. I may not be able to hit him but he is not hitting me either. Data has changed, movement, I am in range but he is calculating new data, the movement, to time me. I can work and stay in range as long as I am moving. Bob, weave and get in some shots. That’s like you having incredible sharpness because of your conditioning. If you’ve worked on the right technique, you can apply it longer while you are actually punching. Bags, mitts, a sparring partner. Watching new boxers reveals that there may be some apprehension about getting tired while sparring. So they began getting tense. Relaxation creates power in boxing unlike weight lifting where tension creates power. Sudden quick powerful exertion. Like a jab, properly thrown. Elbows in, chin down, feet under the fighter, small step to your opponent and the jab looks effortless but your sparring partner’s head pops back and his chin is temporarily exposed. A thing of beauty created by the small explosive movement to your opponent. You are probably unaware of how you appear to the trained eye. Hand brought back to the shoulder ready for the next step, punch or parry. Do some shadow boxing with your gloves on in front of a mirror. It’s very revealing to me.

 

[Woldog]

Pretty sure pad work wasn't really used much until Rocky made it popular.

 

[Dan Torrance]

I think a lot of it has to do with a particular business model.

If you're trying to train efficiently it makes sense to have 1 guy overseeing a group of people sort of air boxing each other just to get the movements drilled with varying levels of resistance and intensity.

The pad thing is like to be able to get paid more money for private sessions.

 

[DoctorTaco]

I do a ton of pad work with my fighters. That being said I think partner drills are far better to build a fighter. Pad work has its place (conditioning, technical evaluation and correction, applying new techniques) but partner drills are still my go-to for fighter development for all levels

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Pad work for kicking and drilling reactions to someone throwing at you

 

[Badoldman]

Pad work is great for being shown new technique and reinforcement of new technique. It is also great for warming up before a fight. It is fair for conditioning and is poor for substituting bag work. Fighters who tend to train with a lot of pad work often fail to fully extend their jab and begin arm punching hooks (failing to turn your hip while pivoting your lead foot) I often go weeks without any pad work. If I had endless time to devote to my training, I would incorporate daily pad work rounds to break up the training and prevent my training from becoming monotonous. My son however, wants anywhere from 3-5 rounds daily. He says it improved his sharpness and allows him to “catalogue” combinations.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

I do a ton of pad work with my fighters. That being said I think partner drills are far better to build a fighter. Pad work has its place (conditioning, technical evaluation and correction, applying new techniques) but partner drills are still my go-to for fighter development for all levels

I'm the same, I try to build the fighters with drills - and use padwork for getting them fit

 

[j123]

Depends on many factors. Traditional arguments is either for pads or the bag, they're both tools to be used for different tasks imo

Personally, the heavybag has always done me well, gave good improvements compared to pads. For pads, you need a good partner to hold and know what they're doing, it requires more compared to a bag. Way too often I've seen it happen to others, and it happened to me as well early on: shit partners holding too far or wide and repetition after repetition, days, weeks, months in, and you autopilot on the distance and range you've been accustomed to....the issue is that distance and gap, its like you're fighting a 3 headed dragon and not a person who's within 1-5" more or less.

Personally for me, I find drilling and shadow boxing to be the best (for myself) and development when I was coaching a few green fighters. On the other hand pads accomplish the "motivational" workout aspect that keeps ppl coming back and having a good groove. Hit the right area of the pad? Nice gunshot sound, have good sync with your holder where you're exerting yourself and getting what looks to be a good workout in, and its good on the feels.

Why drilling for me is best is because when done properly, its very much like sparring except you're working on well what you're supposed to be working on. Also you get a more realistic feel of what and where your strikes land on a human body compared to a pad that has bulk that messes with the distance. Land a kick on the body or legs? Normal in sparring, drilling, fights. Do it with pads? You have a 5-8" pad in the way, now add to that a holder who doesn't do it well and that distance might as well be 2 ft screwing your perception or when to strike, speed up, or slow down, and its become a problem

 

[PCP319]

@Badoldman While I'm new to boxing, and haven't been to a boxing gym yet, I've definitely noticed I get so much more power when I'm completely relaxed. Funny how that works. It's like a whip, not a sledgehammer.

 

[Badoldman]

@Badoldman While I'm new to boxing, and haven't been to a boxing gym yet, I've definitely noticed I get so much more power when I'm completely relaxed. Funny how that works. It's like a whip, not a sledgehammer.

That is s very good anology.

 

[shincheckin]

What you did was learn the value of bag work and repetition, such as 100 kicks on the bag each leg etc. Most people and your average hobbyists don't and aren't willing to put in the time on the bag.
Do your bagwork and when done, then go do pads.

 

[DeepFry]

What you did was learn the value of bag work and repetition, such as 100 kicks on the bag each leg etc. Most people and your average hobbyists don't and aren't willing to put in the time on the bag.
Do your bagwork and when done, then go do pads.

Well, there in is the question.

What to prioritize, how often to prioritize it?

And like dude above said, an pad holder who doesn't know how to hold or what combos to call - is both heartbreaking and infuriating.

The more I can withdraw into myself in a sense, the more technically I can analyze, the better I perform.

As weird as it sounds, I'd like to be able to do my entire session completely by myself.

Then, get my sparring in.

Some pairs/partner work for drilling would be good from time to time, but the fact is, not all gym cater to that style of training.

 

[Dexter]

I'm with @AndyMaBobs and @DoctorTaco in this one - Soviet/Russian boxing school is based mostly on partner drills. The more advanced you get, the more they resemble free sparring. Mitts are used only by coaches, and not very often.

 

[DeepFry]

I'm with @AndyMaBobs and @DoctorTaco in this one - Soviet/Russian boxing school is based mostly on partner drills. The more advanced you get, the more they resemble free sparring. Mitts are used only by coaches, and not very often.

+1

Outside of Holland most gyms I've come across prioritize students holding pads for one another unfortunately, vs pairs work on the gloves, back and forth.

To me, it's that simple variation in training approach that results in Dutch fighters typically comprising about 50% for the top finishers in kickboxing tournaments.

 

[shincheckin]

Well, there in is the question.

What to prioritize, how often to prioritize it?

And like dude above said, an pad holder who doesn't know how to hold or what combos to call - is both heartbreaking and infuriating.

The more I can withdraw into myself in a sense, the more technically I can analyze, the better I perform.

As weird as it sounds, I'd like to be able to do my entire session completely by myself.

Then, get my sparring in.

Some pairs/partner work for drilling would be good from time to time, but the fact is, not all gym cater to that style of training.

Throughout all my years of training solo bag work has been a big part of it and I have always had at least one night a week of solo training which was usually Friday night it was great to have the gym all to yourself and you can train really good with no eyes on you uninhibited. Towards the end of my fight career a very large portion of my training was solo training probably two to three nights a week was solo training and the other two or three nights a week was pads and sparring

 

[Mark6pro]

There is an old adage in boxing that bears repeating. If you are going to train 3 hours, 1/4 of that time should be conditioning, 1/2 of that time should be technique and 1/4 of that time should be application of that technique in actual boxing. Now you and I know that you can condition while working technique. But your sharpness had to be attributed to the technique you worked on. The first thing a person wants to do when they enter a boxing gym is start punching things. The very first trainer I ever had, 44 yrs ago, wanted me tired, very tired before he’d let me begin punching things. He told me anyone can look sharp when they’re fresh. But the flaws in my technique revealed themselves when I was tired. Not turning my hook over, not extending my arm fully, not moving my head, etc... He said when I am fatigued, whatever I’m used to will return. It’s then that the metal is hot, it’s then that I’ll return to what I know coming in off the street. He said it’s then that we form the metal and remove the imperfections. I still train 6-7 days a week. I spend a lot of time getting tired, then I begin boxing. Your workout stands scrutiny and you very likely got in the best shape of your life. It was the incredible condition you were in when you applied your technique. I spoke to my old trainer after Deontay Wilder was beaten by Fury. He’s an 89 year old former Olympic boxing coach and trained both Oscar De La Hoya and Shane Mosley for the Olympics. He said Wilder’s power could not solve the problems he faced in Fury. When he began getting tired, his technique was poor and it failed him. I spend 1/2 of my training time on technique to this day. It’s tedious and repetitive but when I spar now. (57 yrs old and still sparring) I can stay in the session with a younger, bigger, stronger and better boxer because I’ve trained so much on my technique. Example: my son is a 21 year old amateur who is undefeated right now. He’s been away from the boxing gym and has great big gym muscles from lifting. He is a southpaw and is a very busy fighter. Throws lots of punches. When I am trying to corner him, or set up something, I get in range and move my head. It temporarily freezes him and most other boxers. I may not be able to hit him but he is not hitting me either. Data has changed, movement, I am in range but he is calculating new data, the movement, to time me. I can work and stay in range as long as I am moving. Bob, weave and get in some shots. That’s like you having incredible sharpness because of your conditioning. If you’ve worked on the right technique, you can apply it longer while you are actually punching. Bags, mitts, a sparring partner. Watching new boxers reveals that there may be some apprehension about getting tired while sparring. So they began getting tense. Relaxation creates power in boxing unlike weight lifting where tension creates power. Sudden quick powerful exertion. Like a jab, properly thrown. Elbows in, chin down, feet under the fighter, small step to your opponent and the jab looks effortless but your sparring partner’s head pops back and his chin is temporarily exposed. A thing of beauty created by the small explosive movement to your opponent. You are probably unaware of how you appear to the trained eye. Hand brought back to the shoulder ready for the next step, punch or parry. Do some shadow boxing with your gloves on in front of a mirror. It’s very revealing to me.

Man, are you taking students??