Help with half guard underhook on bigger opponents

I

ITRDC5

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Hi guys,

I always strive to get the far side underhook to complete my knee slide pass or any pass for that matter from half guard. But I'm having problems doing this against bigger opponents, I have been susceptible to omaplatas and armbars as they often end up controlling me with a strong overhook.

I'm 64kg so struggle to put too much pressure on them in half guard, especially guys with longer legs.
I guess what I'm asking is that is there any good alternatives to passing in half guard than the farside underhook or are there any tips to help avoid getting in trouble with my arm there?

Much love as always
 
If you absolutely can't get the far side underhook, try an upright posture knee slice with a cross lapel grip (if passing to your left, right hand deep into opponent's collar, 4 fingers inside collar). Lock out your arm and try to get your knuckles to the mat. That should keep your opponent's back flat on the mat. For extra pressure, turn your knuckles on the mat counter clockwise forcing your forearm into your opponent's face turning their face away from you.

You can also go straight to a cross collar choke from that position before you even complete the pass. Going for the choke, even without the intention of finishing it, will help you pass as well since they will have to use their hands to defend the choke.
 
This isn't the exact setup I use but it's similar and the quickest one I could find. It's Romulo so his way is probably better anyways :)

 
platfox said:
If you absolutely can't get the far side underhook, try an upright posture knee slice with a cross lapel grip (if passing to your left, right hand deep into opponent's collar, 4 fingers inside collar). Lock out your arm and try to get your knuckles to the mat. That should keep your opponent's back flat on the mat. For extra pressure, turn your knuckles on the mat counter clockwise forcing your forearm into your opponent's face turning their face away from you.

You can also go straight to a cross collar choke from that position before you even complete the pass. Going for the choke, even without the intention of finishing it, will help you pass as well since they will have to use their hands to defend the choke.
Click to expand...

I came here to post this exact thing. I literally went over this with a white belt after class last night because he was struggling to finish the pass when they shut down his under hook.

Platfox = good answer there.
 
I'm the same size as you.

What you need to do is use your head when your are passing. If they are armbarring you or getting you in an omoplata you are leaving too much space between yourself and the other guy.

Get your head down touching the mat. You want your whole upper body pressed against your opponent's body. Keep your hips driven toward the mat, too if he has you in half guard with his legs above your knee. Don't leave any space.

Get the underhook and get your head on the mat on the same side that you are passing. Drive your head into the side of their head and control their free arm at the tricep.

As you pass twist your hips. For example, if you are passing to the left you drive your head into the side or their head pushing your head to the right and twisting your hips to the left.

This will twist their body and spine and make it very uncomfortable for them when you pass. Physically, they won't be able to do anything even if they have an overhook.

Make sure to keep your weight distributed on the side you are passing to. If you are centered too far over a big dude's body, he will reverse you (especially if he has an overhook).

It's really effective and will kill their chances of submitting you or reversing you even if they over hook your arm.
 
I do recommend the face-bar technique, but as for general advice with your underhook there's lots you can do. For me, I love to grab the back of the gi behind their neck and pull it in tight to limit their movement. I find driving the top of my head into their chin also drives them back and doesn't allow them to sit-up and dictate with the overhook. Make sure to walk your hand up as far as possible.
 
BJJArsenal said:
IFor me, I love to grab the back of the gi behind their neck and pull it in tight to limit their movement. I find driving the top of my head into their chin also drives them back and doesn't allow them to sit-up and dictate with the overhook.
Click to expand...

This is AWESOME, AWESOME advice. Especially the part about driving the top of the head into the chin. I do it all the time. I will drive the top of my head into their chin and then place it on the side of their head on the mat. It absolutely kills the upper half of the other guy's body.
 
Knock Out Ned said:
I'm the same size as you.

What you need to do is use your head when your are passing. If they are armbarring you or getting you in an omoplata you are leaving too much space between yourself and the other guy.

Get your head down touching the mat. You want your whole upper body pressed against your opponent's body. Keep your hips driven toward the mat, too if he has you in half guard with his legs above your knee. Don't leave any space.

Get the underhook and get your head on the mat on the same side that you are passing. Drive your head into the side of their head and control their free arm at the tricep.

As you pass twist your hips. For example, if you are passing to the left you drive your head into the side or their head pushing your head to the right and twisting your hips to the left.

This will twist their body and spine and make it very uncomfortable for them when you pass. Physically, they won't be able to do anything even if they have an overhook.

Make sure to keep your weight distributed on the side you are passing to. If you are centered too far over a big dude's body, he will reverse you (especially if he has an overhook).

It's really effective and will kill their chances of submitting you or reversing you even if they over hook your arm.
Click to expand...

This is how I knee cut low also except for the part you highlighted. I only knee cut low if I can get the far side underhook. I place my head on the passing side and drive into them like you. I usually over hook their bottom arm at the tricep and pull up.

I've never tried it with a near side under hook. I thought you wrote that wrong at first but since you highlighted it, I assume it's not a mistake. I'll give it a try.
 
1. Never underhook without getting (and staying) past the opponent's knees. You need to climb to the line of the hips before taking any grip at the line of the shoulders, i.e. underhook, cross-face, overhook.

2. When knee-cutting, I like Ryan Hall's method: Just keep your elbow on the inside with your hand posted on the ribs, and jam your forehead under the guy's chin, stretching him out as your knee on the mat drags his knee open. If he pushes your head with his far arm, he opens himself to the underhook. Otherwise, you just pass with head pressure and rewind his knees into the leg drag.

3. Consider taking the near side underhook first. Not only can you use it to pass in very powerful ways, but it lets you set up the far side underhook passes more safely/systematically against guys who don't expose themselves much.
 
Shemhazai said:
3. Consider taking the near side underhook first. Not only can you use it to pass in very powerful ways, but it lets you set up the far side underhook passes more safely/systematically against guys who don't expose themselves much.
Click to expand...

A second recommendation for the near side underhook. Now I really have to try it. I never thought about the nearside because I felt like my opponent could hip away and get to their knees. But the way you guys explained it with keeping pressure to the upperbody (head to chin) makes sense to prevent them from getting to their knees.
 
platfox said:
This is how I knee cut low also except for the part you highlighted. I only knee cut low if I can get the far side underhook. I place my head on the passing side and drive into them like you. I usually over hook their bottom arm at the tricep and pull up.

I've never tried it with a near side under hook. I thought you wrote that wrong at first but since you highlighted it, I assume it's not a mistake. I'll give it a try.
Click to expand...

I think we are passing the same way. I think I just wrote it weird.

Head on the mat with a far side underhook. Other arm controls the tricep of the free arm.

I hate typing techniques out.
 
Well, maybe this will be helpful..I'll give you my perspective from the bottom guy with the underhook. I don't get the omoplata or the armbar, but I've gotten pretty good at getting hook sweeps from there..
What I look for in that position is to turn onto my bottom shoulder, keep my head "above" your head so I can crunch into you.
I guess the things to focus on is keep your head at the same level as the person on bottom, keep their shoulders flat, and while you want your weight off to the side, you don't want it TOO far off to the side..if your opponent starts turning on their shoulder and/or crunching into you, you can always come back across their body so your head is on the same size as your underhook in the typical head and arm control position.
 
Are you asking just about knee slice variations, or half guard passing in general? Because if you can't get the underhook on the top side, you have two other major options:

1. Hip switch passing ala Marcelo Garcia. This is my go-to against bigger guys, and frankly I find it to be the safest way of passing half in general. Once you get your hips high under the armpit, the bottom guy has very little counterplay.



2. Near side underhook passing. This is mostly a Shawn Williams thing, but as I've played with it more I've come to appreciate its merits.

 
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