Grappler learning striking or Striker learning grappling. What's easier?

[Dead Kennedy]

What do you think would be easier, for a grappler to learn proper stand up or for a striker to learn the ground game? In my opinion it is a ground guy learning the stand up. You see it all the time with wrestlers and Bjj guys. The only guys I can really think of who started out as a predominantly stand up guy and switched to a more grounded attack is GSP and Cheick Kongo. What do think is easier?

 

[Arm Barbarian]

I'd lean toward the grappler learning striking.

Being a great grappler really means you don't have to have perfect striking technique to be effective. You can use striking fundamentals like uppercuts and hooks in close while clinch game is in motion.

Strikers seem to have a tougher time getting wrestling / counter-wrestling down to me.

 

[Brockster]

I think it mostly depends on the fighter, some great fighters never seem to develop any real striking(Shields), and some never seem to learn how to grapple at the highest level(Paul Daley) however, I do believe a great grappler with rudimentary striking can be a bigger force than a great striker with rudimentary grappling. I dare say grapplers expose strikers with bad grappling to a higher degree than strikers exposing grapplers with bad standup.

 

[BeeCee]

Im doing a beginners course and i have boxing experience so my stand up is good but im struggling right now with certain ground moves

 

[MoMurdah]

I can't fully answer the question but I can throw in a few thoughts:

When it comes to learning striking, it depends on the specific grappling art too. The top level of MMA is filled with lots of guys who were primarily Greco Roman wrestlers (Jon Jones, Couture, Sonnen, Dan Henderson, etc.) because Greco Roman style of wrestling is most similar to a stance someone would take in an MMA fight, whereas other styles of wrestling are lower to the ground, with guys exploding upward into their takedowns, it's not as intuitive for them to switch over and start adding boxing combinations.

You also got BJJ guys who typically learn at a gym with some Muay Thai, they go hand in hand at many schools now.

I think a huge part of it is just time. It takes time and practice for a fighter to get the MOVEMENT of a striker. It's not something you just have, it's something that is cultivated. Compare the striking of Chad Mendes who fought Jose Aldo the first time, to his second outing against Aldo. Huge difference. I am sure Ludwig played a part, but Chad also looks like a seasoned striker who knows how to shift his weight with his punches in a way that only fluid, skilled strikers can. This is something that simply comes with time.

When it comes to strikers switching to grappling, keep in mind that striking arts mostly all have some grappling techniques involved as strikers inevitably get tangled up when fighting.

Boxers and wrestlers used to train together back in the day, and plenty of boxers using wrestling holds in the clinch to separate and smother their opponents.

Muay Thai fighters enter the clinch frequently, the crowd loves it because elbows and knees are harder than their punches, so you see clinch battles often in Muay Thai.

Edit: As mentioned above, it also depends on the fighter and their coach.

 

[Taric]

Pure grapplers have transitioned into this sport with more success than vice versa.
Even guys who are seen as primarily strikers started their careers from a grappling background. IE: Aldo, JDS, Liddell, Wanderlei, etc

 

[Jitz86]

Nailed it here imo

 

[Neitzsche]

I think it mostly depends on the fighter, some great fighters never seem to develop any real striking(Shields), and some never seem to learn how to grapple at the highest level(Paul Daley) however, I do believe a great grappler with rudimentary striking can be a bigger force than a great striker with rudimentary grappling. I dare say grapplers expose strikers with bad grappling to a harder degree than strikers exposing grapplers with bad standup.

Good post.

I do think we are entering an era where we are seeing strikers really learning how to maintain the distance and defend the wrestling. Stephen Thompson for ex. I think we may see that tilt the other way soon.

 

[Grijswaarde]

Grappling was much harder for me.. but started as a pure striker and then started bjj.. so might be biased.

A striker could be ok with just defensive grappling all based on tdd and getting up i guess.

Striking also involves "lucky" shots, grappling not so much. In comparison: when i spar drunk on a birthdayparty with an untrained friend, he still has some chance to hit me with a punch or kick. When we go to the ground not a chance at all.. and i'm not a good grappler at all..

 

[Forever Young]

What is easier depends on the fighter, what they are learning, who they are learning it from.

What is more effective is and will always be fighters, if only given one or the other, from a grappling background.

 

[TheScorpionDude]

What about touchbutt ? Is striking or grappling a better base for touchbutt ?

I'm only asking cause they are building a new park next to my building and I want to be ready in case someone tries any funny business.

 

[Escabar]

The level of grappling is higher in mma, plenty of top grapplers. The number of elite of strikers is low, so to compete you need a very good understanding of grappling, better off having that as a base look at the ufc champs.

 

[Tormund]

I'd rather be an elite striker than an elite grappler, it annoys me how many fighters in MMA have zero striking technique but get credit for being able to hang on the feet just because their opponent doesn't know shit about striking either, plus the fight starts on the feet so if you have great TDD all you need to know is how to stall somebody while grappling. Both are very important though.

 

[maxi diablo]

To me jiu jitsu is easier to learn. I come from a boxing backgroud. I find kickind a little more difficult. It depends on the person i guess.

 

[campbecc]

We won't know the answer unless MMA starts paying more than boxing. My guess is strikers have the advantage because they only need to learn TDD not all of grappling.

PS: I wrestled and boxed so I'm pretty non biased, though I admit I liked boxing better.

 

[MiroHa]

I guess it depends. I started taking both striking and grappling in my late teens and grappling was way more comfortable and natural for me. I think striking is just more unnatural movement so it's definitely harder to master at later age in my opinion.

 

[BigMuffler]

You see plenty of fighters with a grappling base becoming formidable strikers, fighters with a striking base becoming good offensive grapplers not as much.

Pure grapplers have transitioned into this sport with more success than vice versa.
Even guys who are seen as primarily strikers started their careers from a grappling background. IE: Aldo, JDS, Liddell, Wanderlei, etc

Even Lawler lol.

 

[charalsias]

I can't answer but i can give you my train of thought.

In my opinion the thing is that all decent fighters know almost all techniques.By that i mean that if you were to give them a test and ask them how to do or counteract or even perform something,most would know how to answer or do it.

But the difference between learning boxing combos or how to perform a spining kick and being an elite striker lies on knowing how to set everything up,how to read your opponents striking on the spot etc.The people with a striking background have been doing it forever and that time simply cannot be matched by someone who started later.A muay thai guy has been conditioning his shins since he was a kid for example.


On the other hand take a fighter with a wrestling background.That person's muscles have been growing according to his training since he was a kid.To put it simply their asses are different.

Also I cannot back this idea up fully,but i think that boxing is more instinctive to humans.Put two untrained people in a fight they will start swinging.So in a sense the most basic striking techniques come easier to wrestler that basic wrestling grappling to a striker.Plus kicks in general are not the most prudent choice most of the time.(with the exeption of leg and body kicks)

One great example of a weird combination are the diaz bros.They have boxing and bjj(and neanderthal chins ) which i think they give almost equal importance too.They lack the middle part which is tdo/tdd.So they will box their opponent up,till they are not fighting at 100% and then take it to the ground and finish them.(Nick has been a bit more passionate about his boxing though later in his career...)

Also i think the biggest advantage wrestlers have is point fighting.An elite striker will be required to be much more dominant and mess his opponent up,all the wile taking risks,in order to get a decision.But a wrestler can win a match 50-45 and leave both guys able to fight the next day after a good sleep.

 

[Taric]

Even Lawler lol.

Yeah it's funny. There are a large number of fighters out there that you wouldn't think came from grappling backgrounds, but there it is.

 

[Dead Kennedy]

Good post.

I do think we are entering an era where we are seeing strikers really learning how to maintain the distance and defend the wrestling. Stephen Thompson for ex. I think we may see that tilt the other way soon.

Agree. They don't necessarily have to use grappling to get their opponents down, but can use it as more of a defensive tool ala Chuck Liddell.