gracie combatives?

[mottohello1]

Hey guys

I see that gracie combatives gets alot of negativity on this forum becuase it's an online instructional video and theres no sparring. I was just wondering would you guys respect it more if it was being taught by an instructor who has been taught by the gracie personally and at an academy which allows sparring.

 

[Gunz And Money**]

Hey guys

I see that gracie combatives gets alot of negativity on this forum becuase it's an online instructional video and theres no sparring. I was just wondering would you guys respect it more if it was being taught by an instructor who has been taught by the gracie personally and at an academy which allows sparring.

It's legit for newbs to defeat untrained guys.

 

[mottohello1]

Okay then, how about the master cycle? I don't really know much about it, but I think it's more about fighting a trained guy? Correct me if i'm wrong though, because i don't have a lot of knowledge on the subject.

 

[tf]

Hey guys

I see that gracie combatives gets alot of negativity on this forum becuase it's an online instructional video and theres no sparring. I was just wondering would you guys respect it more if it was being taught by an instructor who has been taught by the gracie personally and at an academy which allows sparring.

I used to think self defense was lame and only practiced by guys who were afraid to do competitive Jiu-Jitsu. I was lame. I compete 3-4 a year for the last seven years. I'm not an avid competitor but I'm not a stranger to it either.

Over time I realized that sport Jiu-Jitsu evolved from basic core techniques like Gracie Combatives. If you're going to truly represent Jiu-Jitsu, you should at least know the 36 techniques taught in the combatives program. It doesn't matter if you go through Gracie University or whatever but you should still know them. They could really save your life someday in a street self defense situation.

For the past three years, I have been teaching the kid's program at my local BJJ school. Right now, we are running all of the kids (beginners and advanced) through the Jr. Combatives program. I feel like it's my responsibility as a representative of Jiu-Jitsu and an instructor to make sure these kids have been exposed to techniques that could keep them safe in a street situation.

Obviously, even if you only train sport BJJ techniques, you will have an advantage in a self defense situation. However, I know advanced guys that didn't know the headlock escape and got headlocked and punched in the face in bar fights by untrained assailants. I'm just saying - the techniques are legit. Maybe you don't like online belts or the marketing slant but the actual techniques can save your life.

 

[tf]

Okay then, how about the master cycle? I don't really know much about it, but I think it's more about fighting a trained guy? Correct me if i'm wrong though, because i don't have a lot of knowledge on the subject.

I have not watched the Master Cycle videos. Rener and Ryron held their own very respectably when they used to compete. Whether or not you like their enthusiasm, these guys are legit.

 

[mottohello1]

Cheers for the reply. I am looking to get into MMA but i want a strong base in BJJ first, I also want to compete in BJJ tournaments. Ive heard that Gracie jiu jitsu is actually better for MMA as it's about dealing with an opponent who's striking you while on the ground. But then I also hear people say that Sport jiu jitsu is better for MMA as they have better submissions. I am not sure yet but I believe that the master cycle is about dealing with people who know BJJ, and therefore would be helpful for MMA and BJJ tournaments.

 

[SBJ]

Gracie Combatives is just the first step in a long journey of learning GJJ. It's like learning the alphabet, the different sounds each letter makes, and a few general rules of grammar. You're trying to build a solid foundation of general fundamentals.

There will be plenty of time to free spar and "test" what you've learned.

When you want to properly learn a foreign language, it's probably a good approach to first take a few classes where you learn the basic structure of the language. Then practice controlled situational conversations with a willing and helpful partner. Then after a lot of practice, actually go out and try to free "spar" and test your new communication skills within an environment where that language is spoken.

Of course another approach to learning a foreign language would be to just hop on a plane and go to a country where that language is spoken, and completely get in head over heels during the immersion process.

There's no correct or incorrect approach to teaching/learning, they're just different.

The Gracie Academy (Ryron and Rener) just prefer the progressive, structured, and layered approach. So when they created the Gracie Combatives curriculum for self-defense (independent of whatever is en vogue at sport BJJ competitions), they wanted to provide the easiest most efficient approach for the absolute non-athletic beginner to digest.

 

[Jiujitsurican]

The master cycle is basically from blue belt to black belt. But they separate each position into chapters and you will Learn a position for about 1 month and so on.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

Ive heard that Gracie jiu jitsu is actually better for MMA as it's about dealing with an opponent who's striking you while on the ground. But then I also hear people say that Sport jiu jitsu is better for MMA as they have better submissions.

Both of those statements kind of mis-characterize the pro's of each.

Gracie Combatives stuff is good for self defense against untrained opponents. It's not necessarily better for MMA. If you want to train for MMA, you have to train MMA, with skilled opponents. Gracie Combatives involves dealing with strikes, but not from people who are skilled at grappling and trained to strike in an MMA setting.

On the other tip, the advantage of sport BJJ is not that it has better submissions. The submissions are the same. The advantage of sport BJJ is the competitive aspect, and testing yourself against skilled opponents under an aggressive competition setting. That kind of setting will make your overall application of the techniques better. The downside is that you may end up focusing on a lot of things that are not MMA-applicable. But for those things in sport BJJ that do transfer well to MMA, you will be very good at using them on a skilled and resisting opponent.

But if your goal is to compete in sport BJJ and eventually MMA, then you need to train BJJ gi and no gi, and work with an MMA coach/team to prepare for MMA when that time comes. Gracie Combatives won't suffice for MMA preparation, you'll need more.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

it may be interesting, those brothers sure know how to get technique through. If they will only take away that crap belting system...

 

[BJJGuy]

However, I know advanced guys that didn't know the headlock escape and got headlocked and punched in the face in bar fights by untrained assailants. I'm just saying - the techniques are legit. Maybe you don't like online belts or the marketing slant but the actual techniques can save your life.

Stephan Kesting did a good video that went into detail with the headlock escape.

 

[mottohello1]

"The omission of sportive grappling in the very beginning allows us to ensure maximum street readiness for our students in the least amount of time possible. And the difference of sportive grappling ability between a GJJ blue belt and a BJJ blue belt quickly diminishes with the introduction of the Master Cycle, so that by the time a student has a few stripes on their blue belt, the is no difference (I realized this the hard way the first time I visited the Gracie Academy in Torrance, when I was a four-stripe blue belt in BJJ)"

I was just on the Gracie university website where I was reading about the difference between GJJ and BJJ and i just read this. They were admitting that a GJJ blue belt would be beaten by a BJJ blue belt in a grappling tournament as a GJJ beginner blue belt is about about fighting someone with no grappling skills. But once a GJJ blue belt starts learning the master cycle they will catch up to a BJJ blue belt in SJJ skills. And that from blue belt to black belt in GJJ and BJJ that they are equal in sport jiu jitsu skills. So I think i'm gonna stick with combatives and then when I achieve blue belt start the master cycle.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

"The omission of sportive grappling in the very beginning allows us to ensure maximum street readiness for our students in the least amount of time possible. And the difference of sportive grappling ability between a GJJ blue belt and a BJJ blue belt quickly diminishes with the introduction of the Master Cycle, so that by the time a student has a few stripes on their blue belt, the is no difference (I realized this the hard way the first time I visited the Gracie Academy in Torrance, when I was a four-stripe blue belt in BJJ)"

I was just on the Gracie university website where I was reading about the difference between GJJ and BJJ and i just read this. They were admitting that a GJJ blue belt would be beaten by a BJJ blue belt in a grappling tournament as a GJJ beginner blue belt is about about fighting someone with no grappling skills. But once a GJJ blue belt starts learning the master cycle they will catch up to a BJJ blue belt in SJJ skills. And that from blue belt to black belt in GJJ and BJJ that they are equal in sport jiu jitsu skills. So I think i'm gonna stick with combatives and then when I achieve blue belt start the master cycle.

So wait, where are you going to be training? Because if your answer is "nowhere, training by myself" then you will not be prepared for either sport, self defense, or MMA situations. You need a real instructor and real training partners.

Furthermore if you wait until blue belt to compete, you'll be at a disadvantage compared to those who started competing at white belt.

Last thing, whether you're training "BJJ" or "SJJ" or "GJJ" or whatever, you're training the same martial art. Don't buy into all the stuff from the Torrance Academy branch of the Gracie family. Rener and Ryron are excellent instructors and practitioners, but there is a lot of propaganda and salesmanship mixed into what they're saying as well.

 

[SBJ]

If they will only take away that crap belting system...

If, then, what?

 

[StevenCrowder]

Here's the bottomline: if somebody masters all of the moves in the basic Gracie Combatives course, they will be more than ready to defend themselves. Also, the instructional videos are probably the best I've ever seen.

However, some individuals can go through the entire course, and not really "master" anything. It entirely depends on the individual and their level of commitment.

If you're planning on doing MMA, I'd join a school and use the GJJ videos as supplementation.

 

[mottohello1]

So wait, where are you going to be training? Because if your answer is "nowhere, training by myself" then you will not be prepared for either sport, self defense, or MMA situations. You need a real instructor and real training partners.

Furthermore if you wait until blue belt to compete, you'll be at a disadvantage compared to those who started competing at white belt.

Last thing, whether you're training "BJJ" or "SJJ" or "GJJ" or whatever, you're training the same martial art. Don't buy into all the stuff from the Torrance Academy branch of the Gracie family. Rener and Ryron are excellent instructors and practitioners, but there is a lot of propaganda and salesmanship mixed into what they're saying as well.

I'm training at a Gracie certified academy, I dont believe that someone can watch videos and then compete and I agree with you. I do it at an actual school with a teacher who was tested by the gracies in real life and there are many training partners there.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

If, then, what?

i might not be so resisten to join GU... I hate thing when get mcdonaldslize, and GU just seems to much of it, (im not disputing the quality of the teaching, pretty sure its top noch, I mean as far as video teaching go)

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

I'm training at a Gracie certified academy, I dont believe that someone can watch videos and then compete and I agree with you. I do it at an actual school with a teacher who was tested by the gracies in real life and there are many training partners there.

Sounds good. Just keep your goals in mind and know what you're getting into. Your training should match your goals. Who is the instructor at the academy? I'm always suspicious of places that are "certified" under some given umbrella (be it Gracie Combatives, or CSW, or whatever) because it often means that the instructor is relatively inexperienced and hasn't really trained much under the people who certified him. I've heard of certified training centers where the instructor was a blue belt.

 

[mottohello1]

The instructor is a blue belt, soon to be purple i believe, but he's been training BJJ for many years. He also taught no-gi BJJ for like a year or so. And to be fair i've trained with him for a few weeks now and he knows what he is doing and is a good teacher.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

So wait, where are you going to be training? Because if your answer is "nowhere, training by myself" then you will not be prepared for either sport, self defense, or MMA situations. You need a real instructor and real training partners.

Furthermore if you wait until blue belt to compete, you'll be at a disadvantage compared to those who started competing at white belt.

Last thing, whether you're training "BJJ" or "SJJ" or "GJJ" or whatever, you're training the same martial art. Don't buy into all the stuff from the Torrance Academy branch of the Gracie family. Rener and Ryron are excellent instructors and practitioners, but there is a lot of propaganda and salesmanship mixed into what they're saying as well.

I used to think like that too man, thing is, as far as I progress in bjj, I feel like its getting more and more towards the sportive side, when I go to class and ask my instructor to put on some gloves and do some mma sort of training, he is like... nothing... I only get to do that on saturdays on no gi days, and its more MMA than anything (this means starting standing and fucking around for like 3 minutes thrwoing horrible punches and horrible some sort of kicks, because most of the guys doing that dont train stand up, so its like, wtf is the point of doing this? why am I wasting my time doing something I dont know nor I train for?), then I came out and say, dude im not into MMA, im into getting my jiu jitsu to work on real life, then he goes, ohh you are just a pussy ass that want to do half ass things, then I go, NO, I want to train jiu jitsu, not MMA, I dont give a rat ass fuck about the stand up part, I dont want to be learining how to throw a punch or a kick on a MMA class, I want to train jiu jitsu for real life. Then the circle goes back again (it doesnt help that those instructors are also training MT), so what I do, ok lets train MMA, we start and I sit on my but or pull guard... then the rant starts, OHH HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT... to my simple explanation. I WANT TO TRAIN JIU JITSU, I WANT TO TRAIN MY GUARD WITH PUNCHES, not play half ass MT (wich I dont know squad about, nor am interesting in practicing)... Im not training for MMA, im trainign my jiu jistu for SD, and in a SD situation, Im pretty sure if I lay on top, I can fuck up pretty much any untrained person upto 100k no problem (im alson pretty sure my halfass bahina wil be more than enough to take most untrained peole to the ground) , shit hits the fan if I got taken down and have someone on top of me raining puches.. that is what I want to train for...