Good shadowboxing and heavy bag routines/workouts

RexChapmanFan

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Do you any of you all with some experience in kickboxing/thai boxing training have any good workout routines with regard to shadowboxing and heavy bag work?

I'm basically a beginner and am looking for solid routines that will reinforce the fundamentals but also challenge me to grow to some extent (e.g., new combinations, speed, or what have you).

Thanks for any ideas. I have seen an old thread here started by Sinister back in 2005 with a seemingly nice heavy bag workout, but reading through it, it looked like there was some dispute regarding its value (even Sinister seemed to back away from it). So, I thought would ask again.
 
I don't really believe in "routines" i like to work on the combinations that work for me and on the things that i need to improve.

When i shadowbox i mostly focus on foot work and posture, then after some rounds i start working jabs and teeps on the heavy bag. When i feel warmed up i'll incorporate kicks, knees, elbows, punch combinations etc. Close to the end of the workout i start refining my technique with single shots. I have really worked ALOT on my jab, cross and rear round kick lately and it really made a difference.

One drill that i like alot is teeping the bag a couple times, and when it swings back you fake a teep and throw a knee, then continue with a couple of elbows.

At the end of the workout i like to do 30-sec punch out intervals also, to build some endurance.

I would also recommend you to stay focused and relaxed at all times. Focus on technique, not power if you're a beginner.

Just my 2 cents though, not an expert by any means
 
Do you shadow box? Are you limited by those combinations?

Rather than think of techniques, I like to think of the heavy bag as a willing and non-complaining sparring partner. It is an opportunity to develop your own style and ultimately intensity. Heavy bag work for me is 100% intensity in a very challenging fight. I never go for more than a second without making contact and everything is throw with proper intent. Heavy bags to me are about moving with an object and learning timings and adjustments from there. They are fighting practice not just hitting practice.

People get to it many different ways but I personally like to free style and see what happens. No need to hit hard as you build a base, just relax, stand infront of it, get it to move and try to use the bag movement to teach yourself how to move. In a fight, spontaneity is a friend. My way is more challenging than throwing multiple 1,2 stationary pumches.

My approach emphasizes fluidity and movement integration and you will hear other guys come from it with a much different rudimentary perspective. I start with the idea that I don't really need technical brilliance, I just need to put my hands or feet on people better than they do it to me. Then with fluidity, you can add technical corrections later.

Just an opinion.
 
Do you shadow box? Are you limited by those combinations?

Rather than think of techniques, I like to think of the heavy bag as a willing and non-complaining sparring partner. It is an opportunity to develop your own style and ultimately intensity. Heavy bag work for me is 100% intensity in a very challenging fight. I never go for more than a second without making contact and everything is throw with proper intent. Heavy bags to me are about moving with an object and learning timings and adjustments from there. They are fighting practice not just hitting practice.

People get to it many different ways but I personally like to free style and see what happens. No need to hit hard as you build a base, just relax, stand infront of it, get it to move and try to use the bag movement to teach yourself how to move. In a fight, spontaneity is a friend. My way is more challenging than throwing multiple 1,2 stationary pumches.

My approach emphasizes fluidity and movement integration and you will hear other guys come from it with a much different rudimentary perspective. I start with the idea that I don't really need technical brilliance, I just need to put my hands or feet on people better than they do it to me. Then with fluidity, you can add technical corrections later.

Just an opinion.

If your fluidity is based on poor technique, though, doesn't it stand to reason that you'd become stiff all over again when you finally try to impose solid form? Instead of just doing what comes naturally, I'd say it's better to make clean technique feel natural. Takes more time, but likely produces a superior result.
 
If your fluidity is based on poor technique, though, doesn't it stand to reason that you'd become stiff all over again when you finally try to impose solid form? Instead of just doing what comes naturally, I'd say it's better to make clean technique feel natural. Takes more time, but likely produces a superior result.

Nah, you started with the assumption that the technique is poor when I consider it more of a room to improve. Improvement comes in small increments through fluidity and is hardly a challenge. It is fine tuning under live training and everything gradually tightens together.

I am sure you are taking a more extreme perspective on form than is warranted. I am assuming he is learning technique and is looking for a way to work on the heavy bag. He wants someone to give him a workout that they like. I offered the idea that he takes what he knows and applies it and that by being focused on constant improvement, he will learn how to hit a bag with improvisation and he will have to move around the bag forcing him to dance with it and helping him develop fluidity. He will still learn proper technique from a coach and then as he developed that he will fine tune as he works on the bag. Since he started with improvisation and fluidity as a result of moving and hitting a moving bag (which for many is the harder part), punching technique while hitting a moving target will improve but he will already be more accomplished at improvising strikes and moving with an object. As he gets better at hitting and moving, he does them both with more intensity.

I am not willing to say which is a better approach. I just offered an opinion.
 
Heavy bag and shadowboxing should have a purpose. I like to work on the following in order of personal preference and priority:

heavy bag drills- technique, combinations, and power
shadowboxing- visualization of scenarios, combinations and footwork
 
Nah, you started with the assumption that the technique is poor when I consider it more of a room to improve. Improvement comes in small increments through fluidity and is hardly a challenge. It is fine tuning under live training and everything gradually tightens together.

I am sure you are taking a more extreme perspective on form than is warranted. I am assuming he is learning technique and is looking for a way to work on the heavy bag. He wants someone to give him a workout that they like. I offered the idea that he takes what he knows and applies it and that by being focused on constant improvement, he will learn how to hit a bag with improvisation and he will have to move around the bag forcing him to dance with it and helping him develop fluidity. He will still learn proper technique from a coach and then as he developed that he will fine tune as he works on the bag. Since he started with improvisation and fluidity as a result of moving and hitting a moving bag (which for many is the harder part), punching technique while hitting a moving target will improve but he will already be more accomplished at improvising strikes and moving with an object. As he gets better at hitting and moving, he does them both with more intensity.

I am not willing to say which is a better approach. I just offered an opinion.

I actually like the sound of this. Seems like on top of learning fluidity and movement, it would be a little more fun than throwing the same set of punches over and over (though, there is probably value to that).

Perhaps I will change it up and utilize your more fluid approach some days and take a more formalized approach on others. If that is a bad idea, I hope someone lets me know that :).
 
Imo, smashing the bag non-stop and dancing around it isnt realistic for a muay thai fight. I would do that as a conditioning drill but nothing more. Make sure you dont lose good balance or technique
 
I actually like the sound of this. Seems like on top of learning fluidity and movement, it would be a little more fun than throwing the same set of punches over and over (though, there is probably value to that).

Perhaps I will change it up and utilize your more fluid approach some days and take a more formalized approach on others. If that is a bad idea, I hope someone lets me know that :).

It is never a bad idea not can anyone really prove that. It is just a different approach that places the importance of fighting on what a human actually does in space rather than just punching technique. Remember the one who wins is the one who generally hits more. That does NOT imply lack power but the one who can move in, set up , make better adjustments and has more time in the water learning to swim. Think of bag work like shadow boxing but with contact requiring adjustments. Everything one can do in shadow boxing, one can do on a bag but with more learning about yourself.

The only peopl who will argue this are the ones who do not get the delicacy of which I am speaking and rather choose to see some shit head using bad form and pounding like a caveman on the bag.

Even still, your notion of relaxing on a technique driven mechanical approach to one which is more balanced can never be wrong. The bottom line is that since the dawn of man, we have intrinsicly all learned how to hit each other. Hitting with technique and power is way easier than the intracicies of movement and improvised hitting/defense = fluidity.

If you have a friend and or sparring partner, a great drill that I use when someone learns basic movement and really basic strikes is to have them do the following drill.

When I have taught newer fighters they all know how to punch but hardly know how to move with fluidity or improvise attacks. I have been to too many gyms where people learn punches, start sparring and get stymied and quit. When I work with a class or project fighter, the first few classes/sessions are always about moving. My favorite tool is to take a jump rope, place a cut piece of pool noodle over the handle on one end and make big swinging motions at a student. The have to stay in a fighting stance while moving their feet or bobbing/weaving. In kickboxing, I have them lift a foot as in a check. As they get better, I have them add a jab after they successfully slip it or move. Then they add a second counter. At first it is slow and then over time we pick up speed so their movement makes it harder for me to react to them.

It is fun, challenging (depending on fighter level and swinging the rope) and it places the emphasis on the beginnings of partitioning the brain to move and keep position to fight with good form.

There is more than just one way.
 
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If you have a friend and or sparring partner, a great drill that I use when someone learns basic movement and really basic strikes is to have them do the following drill.

When I have taught newer fighters they all know how to punch but hardly know how to move with fluidity or improvise attacks. I have been to too many gyms where people learn punches, start sparring and get stymied and quit. When I work with a class or project fighter, the first few classes/sessions are always about moving. My favorite tool is to take a jump rope, place a cut piece of pool noodle over the handle on one end and make big swinging motions at a student. The have to stay in a fighting stance while moving their feet or bobbing/weaving. In kickboxing, I have them lift a foot as in a check. As they get better, I have them add a jab after they successfully slip it or move. Then they add a second counter. At first it is slow and then over time we pick up speed so their movement makes it harder for me to react to them.
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The older I get the more I think this type of approach is better. Get balance and mobility whilst building confidence in defense first. Once the ego kicks in to hit someone else in sparring most of this goes out the window. But if you can ingrain it from the start then hopefully they will retain it more in sparring. My chaiya instructor does whole rounds of swinging and stabbing dual pool noodles at me. I practice all my defenses whilst moving in and out at range and then adding counters. It builds up to a sparring type task all without the ago and threat kicking in. I find it sharpens my reactions because I can focus on the technique more. I think this should be done more with absolute beginners. Do this type of stuff for a few months before even hitting a pad or bag. I suspect the learning of striking technique would be faster with this as a base.
 
I'm very much a novice and have no idea what to do on the bag really. The trainer was trying to help me with my footwork the other day and position, so I'm trying to just get in the right spot, throw a couple of jabs and a straight right and keep moving. Nearly trip over sometimes though lol, I have a long way to go!
 
I'm very much a novice and have no idea what to do on the bag really. The trainer was trying to help me with my footwork the other day and position, so I'm trying to just get in the right spot, throw a couple of jabs and a straight right and keep moving. Nearly trip over sometimes though lol, I have a long way to go!

It all starts with the feet dude. Get the feet right first.
 
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