Flexibility with no warm up

[JagWar]

I'm flexible when I warm up and stretch, but with no warm up I cant throw a body kick let alone a high kick without experiencing pain in my hips and groin.

Now you may say well why would you even want to kick without warming up. My answer to that is simply for street self defense. What is the point in have good kicks and head kicks if I cant throw it with out warming up? This issue I have really made me focus more on boxing then my kickboxing.

Any tips on this?

 

[CombatCyborg]

I'm flexible when I warm up and stretch, but with no warm up I cant throw a body kick let alone a high kick without experiencing pain in my hips and groin.

Now you may say well why would you even want to kick without warming up. My answer to that is simply for street self defense. What is the point in have good kicks and head kicks if I cant throw it with out warming up? This issue I have really made me focus more on boxing then my kickboxing.

Any tips on this?

If you can't get up and throw a body kick at any given time, you need to develop your flexibility. Head kicks are another thing, you can get there too, but that's not essential if you're worried about street fighting.

 

[fluffball]

Google 'dynamic stretching'. You shouldn't ever need to warm up other than to prevent injury in the long term, you just make head kicks your natural range of motion in the same way you can rotate your shoulder in a complete circle.

Point two, head kicks are not for self defense.

 

[JagWar]

Google 'dynamic stretching'. You shouldn't ever need to warm up other than to prevent injury in the long term, you just make head kicks your natural range of motion in the same way you can rotate your shoulder in a complete circle.

Point two, head kicks are not for self defense.

Interesting. I did a lot of these when I used to do karate as a kid. In kickboxing/muay thai stretching is something you do for your self. I have lost and forgot about that way of stretching. Here i was just doing splits. I need to go back and regain my leg dexterity.

Also whats wrong with a head kick for self defense. It 1 blow to end a fight. With some nice light grippy shoes that keeps you from slipping, you cant go wrong with a head kick.

 

[fluffball]

Also whats wrong with a head kick for self defense. It 1 blow to end a fight. With some nice light grippy shoes that keeps you from slipping, you cant go wrong with a head kick.

Because it's high risk high reward. High risk in self defense means you're paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of your life.

I do agree it's good to be able to do though. If your choice is definitely die or maybe KO someone, I'd go with the maybe KO. But if self defense is your focus, head kicks are a waste of time.

 

[JagWar]

Because it's high risk high reward. High risk in self defense means you're paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of your life.

I do agree it's good to be able to do though. If your choice is definitely die or maybe KO someone, I'd go with the maybe KO. But if self defense is your focus, head kicks are a waste of time.

Its not my focus, but its always nice to have more weapons at your disposal when ever the time comes. I have nice head kicks when i am warmed up but not if i am dry. That has always bugged me.

 

[Phlog]

I wouldn't throw kicks above waist height so as to not compromise my balance. My waist is high enough tho. If one has a bar to hold tho (see savat).

Dynamic stretching is it.

 

[spacetime]

I need to get warm within a fex seconds, simply kick myself into fighting mode. I don't stretch anymore in order to kick. And that's for roundhouses even. I mistakenly believed at first that lack of stretching was the issue, when in fact warm up the body is all you need after a few months of dedicated training. This fool neglected warming up and just focused on stretching (which should be done later)

Stretching is to prevent injuries. Jog a bit If you are out in the streets and you are good to go!

 

[roventu]

Interesting. I did a lot of these when I used to do karate as a kid. In kickboxing/muay thai stretching is something you do for your self. I have lost and forgot about that way of stretching. Here i was just doing splits. I need to go back and regain my leg dexterity..

you can do the splits? then you're already flexible enough lol

btw, the reason high kicks are a problem is if you lose balance and fall, or the opponents takes you to the ground, you're not in your area of expertise anymore. staying on your feet is most important so you can always run away as a backup plan lol

 

[Pope Leo VII]

had taken an extended break from training, and after getting back into it my flexability wasnt where I wanted it to me..

Started doing some basic hip/leg exercises, and my control with kicks and knees is almost back to my peak.

1) Staying on Ball of Left Foot and Keeping Weight on Left Hip, (Holding on to squat rack, treadmill, etc with both hands), Swing Right Leg up as high as possible x 10

2) Repeat x10 with Opposite Side

3) Now Swing Right Leg to the Right x 10, x Left Side

4) Swing RIght Leg Directly behind you x 10, x Left Side

5) Swing Right Leg to Left x 10, x Left Side

Key is to focus on using your hips for all of this.

Doing this is all the warmup I usually need. Throw in some pushups, squats, v sits and ready to rock

 

[aries]

Start working on your hip capsule. This done regularly will give flexibility that is there all the time not just when you are 'warmed' up.

And don't stretch, work on mobility. Stretching to lengthen muscle is just very outdated and not very efficient or effective. Most people already have the muscle length needed to do high kicks, they just don't have the mobility.

 

[PivotPunch]

Start working on your hip capsule. This done regularly will give flexibility that is there all the time not just when you are 'warmed' up.

And don't stretch, work on mobility. Stretching to lengthen muscle is just very outdated and not very efficient or effective. Most people already have the muscle length needed to do high kicks, they just don't have the mobility.

Lengthening the muscle? Pretty sure the muscle does not get lengthened but the tendons get and while you don't have the be super felxible to throw highkicks at head height I wouldn't say that most people are flexible enough.

Just being flexible enough to do highkicks at your head height is ok but it's still better to be more flexible than that in case you have to kcik against someone taller and it makes it much more efficient and easy if you are a little bit more flexible than barely necessary.

Guys like Crocop and Hug kick differently than someone like Aerts just because of their athleticism and flexibility. Aerts is a great kicke rbut heprobably would have been even better had he been as flexible as Crocop not saying he could have but why not at least try to get as close to perfection as possible

 

[Phlog]

Tendons absolutely do not lengthen. It's the muscle.

 

[PivotPunch]

Tendons absolutely do not lengthen. It's the muscle.

After googling a bit it says almost everywhere that both muscles and tendons elongate and I found several articles that say that it might be mostly a thing of the nervous system.
Apparently the science on stretching still isn't 100% clear but the muscle can't get permanently longer tendons apparently neither though

http://www.livescience.com/48744-how-does-stretching-work.html

 

[aries]

After googling a bit it says almost everywhere that both muscles and tendons elongate and I found several articles that say that it might be mostly a thing of the nervous system.
Apparently the science on stretching still isn't 100% clear but the muscle can't get permanently longer tendons apparently neither though

http://www.livescience.com/48744-how-does-stretching-work.html

You don't want to lengthen tendons. Tendons are your force transmitters, they are designed like steel ropes to transmit the contractual force generated by muscles to your skeletal structure. If you stretch them you just add slack to the system for generating force and like steel they don't shrink back, ever. Tendons can be lengthened but most times they just tear, neither is good!

If static stretching increases muscle length it's only transitory at best. Muscles get tight. This is due to being contracted. To get the best range of motion in a joint you ideally need a balance of tension in the muscles that act on that joint. If you have tight hamstrings you won't be able hinge well at the hips. The hamstrings don't need to be made longer, they just need to be released so they aren't wound up in a hypertonic state i.e. contracted.

The hamstrings are plenty long enough for most people to touch their toes, they are just chronically tight in many individuals. That's why you have reports of normal people being able to be contorted into all sorts of extreme ranges of motion when they are under general anaesthetic. In this state all their muscles are totally relaxed.

However you don't want relaxed prime movers before engaging in anything that requires force generation because you won't be able to generate as much force output. They why static stretching, massage and foam rolling before sporting activity is frowned upon. Hence why dynamic stretching has come into favour. But another way is to work on other limiting factors that restrict joint motion such as the joint capsules and the joint position. That's where stuff like banded distraction comes in.

 

[PivotPunch]

You don't want to lengthen tendons. Tendons are your force transmitters, they are designed like steel ropes to transmit the contractual force generated by muscles to your skeletal structure. If you stretch them you just add slack to the system for generating force and like steel they don't shrink back, ever. Tendons can be lengthened but most times they just tear, neither is good!

If static stretching increases muscle length it's only transitory at best. Muscles get tight. This is due to being contracted. To get the best range of motion in a joint you ideally need a balance of tension in the muscles that act on that joint. If you have tight hamstrings you won't be able hinge well at the hips. The hamstrings don't need to be made longer, they just need to be released so they aren't wound up in a hypertonic state i.e. contracted.

The hamstrings are plenty long enough for most people to touch their toes, they are just chronically tight in many individuals. That's why you have reports of normal people being able to be contorted into all sorts of extreme ranges of motion when they are under general anaesthetic. In this state all their muscles are totally relaxed.

However you don't want relaxed prime movers before engaging in anything that requires force generation because you won't be able to generate as much force output. They why static stretching, massage and foam rolling before sporting activity is frowned upon. Hence why dynamic stretching has come into favour. But another way is to work on other limiting factors that restrict joint motion such as the joint capsules and the joint position. That's where stuff like banded distraction comes in.

So how do tendons get lengthened and how do you avoid it? Do they only lengthen through injury? Because the article says that a study showed no difference in tendon and muscle length between stretchers and non stretchers.

 

[aries]

So how do tendons get lengthened and how do you avoid it? Do they only lengthen through injury? Because the article says that a study showed no difference in tendon and muscle length between stretchers and non stretchers.

Prolonged forceful static stretching, the sort you see in a kung fu film training montage with the young student doing side splits across two tree stumps with the old master sitting on his back hitting him with a stick. Fortunately it's very difficult to lengthen tendons because they are very resilient. Many times stronger than muscle and about half as strong as bone. Its much more likely you'll get partial tears resulting in inflammation = tendonitis or rip the attachment point off the bone or tear the muscles they are attached to.

 

[PgKarate]

Prolonged forceful static stretching, the sort you see in a kung fu film training montage with the young student doing side splits across two tree stumps with the old master sitting on his back hitting him with a stick. Fortunately it's very difficult to lengthen tendons because they are very resilient. Many times stronger than muscle and about half as strong as bone. Its much more likely you'll get partial tears resulting in inflammation = tendonitis or rip the attachment point off the bone or tear the muscles they are attached to.

But say if I want to have better axe kicks, where I need do the splits or even over split vertically, will motion training or dynamic stretching get me to that flexibility? I feel all the flexibility I gained in my life is from static stretching.
Also if I need my kicks for demonstration purposes (katas in karate, where I need to kick high and slowly and keep the kick up there) isn't that only attainable with static stretching?

Thanks for the knowledge, sorry to be bothering.

 

[TheFinerDetails]

I used to believe that new mentality that sort of sways from stretching to warm up. I now have a consistent groin injury that comes and goes depending on when I stretch and when I don't. Fair to say that I was ignorant, and if I continue to be ignorant I will continue to feel the rewards of my ignorance .
That's not to say I don't still disagree with the straight up static stretching concepts, I just believe there is a proper way to warm up. Dynamic stretching is great, I believe dynamics are the way to warm up, however, people like to get lazy on dynamic warming up. Don't be lazy, your older self will thank you. Use this dynamic stretch as your 'warm up', doesn't have to be a separate routine you have to do at 5am
---After doing dynamic flexibility routines, I improved both of my legs flexibility and mobility by VAST amounts.
I can wake up and throw a headkick before I do anything, but that doesn't mean I should be...

 

[TheFinerDetails]

But say if I want to have better axe kicks, where I need do the splits or even over split vertically, will motion training or dynamic stretching get me to that flexibility? I feel all the flexibility I gained in my life is from static stretching.
Also if I need my kicks for demonstration purposes (katas in karate, where I need to kick high and slowly and keep the kick up there) isn't that only attainable with static stretching?

Thanks for the knowledge, sorry to be bothering.

I'm not sure if this is correct, but the same concepts still apply in dynamic as they do in static. In static you sort of push further down in your stretches after a certain amount of time right? In dynamic, from my experiences anyway, you consistently are doing the same thing, slowly increasing flexibility in a smarter sort of way.