NFL Is the NFL Rigged? ( Sir Elzio Mega Discussion )

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

Indeed, which is why the test the 40, it's more relevant, the field is barely 100m long counting the endzones, acceleration matters more in the sport, but the thread's question is discussing speed, not mere acceleration, and besides, I made a note of the distinction, there. This is what I was talking about:

Colin Kaepernick and his Usain Bolt-like stride​

Unless you are like an Alvin Harper or Warren Wells guys known for being long ball receivers, it is about quicks and 40 type jets.

Kickoff return guys need good long range speed.

But other than that give me a 4.30 cat over a 10.3 sprinter.

Kaepernick had long range speed, just not great speed. No way he had legit 100m speed vs those who did. He might run 10.6ish, Tyreek Hill runs 10.1.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

2025 the year of Drake Maye. The decline of Patrick Mahomes the comeback of Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

No Derrick Henry, no Jonathan Taylor, no Bijan Robinson in the playoffs, this is why ya don't spend a first round pick on any RB.

The Pats won all those SB;s, who was their stud RB?

Barry Sanders won how many SB's?

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

Should have mentioned those Rams teams with Faulk, Bruce and Holt with Warner at the helm.

Peyton had Edgerin James, Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.

 

[Madmick]

Unless you are like an Alvin Harper or Warren Wells guys known for being long ball receivers, it is about quicks and 40 type jets.

Kickoff return guys need good long range speed.

But other than that give me a 4.30 cat over a 10.3 sprinter.

Kaepernick had long range speed, just not great speed. No way he had legit 100m speed vs those who did. He might run 10.6ish, Tyreek Hill runs 10.1.

Nowhere have I, Boldon, or his coach asserted Kaepernick would have been competitive against a field of a world class track 100m final sprinters.

I don't understand why you're contradicting claims that haven't been forwarded. If anything, I said what I said in defense of the apparent shortcoming of your own list from the OP. Because I pointed out the bust Jake Locker is a white QB who was faster than Kaepernick in the 40-yard dash despite that you named Kaep in the OP for your "All Time QB 100m Final". So either you overlooked Locker, since he would be faster, or I thought, maybe one could argue Kaep belonged on that list because in a theoretical 100m between QBs he would surge past Jake Locker late in the race thanks to his extraordinary stride length, once he reached top speed, allowing him to achieve a higher top speed, and to maintain that top speed longer.

This is a principle in swimming, too, btw, where a more efficient stroke (i.e. fewer strokes to cover the same distance, or "stroke stride", I suppose you could call it) has been powerfully correlated to higher top speeds, and the fastest swimmers in any given event at the Olympic level.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

Nowhere have I, Boldon, or his coach asserted Kaepernick would have been competitive against a field of a world class track 100m final sprinters.

I don't understand why you're contradicting claims that haven't been forwarded. If anything, I said what I said in defense of the apparent shortcoming of your own list from the OP. Because I pointed out the bust Jake Locker is a white QB who was faster than Kaepernick in the 40-yard dash despite that you named Kaep in the OP for your "All Time QB 100m Final". So either you overlooked Locker, since he would be faster, or I thought, maybe one could argue Kaep belonged on that list because in a theoretical 100m between QBs he would surge past Jake Locker late in the race thanks to his extraordinary stride length, once he reached top speed, allowing him to achieve a higher top speed, and to maintain that top speed longer.

This is a principle in swimming, too, btw, where a more efficient stroke (i.e. fewer strokes to cover the same distance, or "stroke stride", I suppose you could call it) has been powerfully correlated to higher top speeds, and the fastest swimmers in any given event at the Olympic level.

The 40 has zero to do with anything here, a total non factor.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

According to a system I use

1.Seahawks 55
2.Pats 53
3.Rams 46
4.Broncos 43

I can see those 4 playing in the Conference Champs games

5.Bills 40.....they could mess that up
6.Texans 39....surprised
7.Jags 38
8,Niners 37....sheesh!
9.Eagles 33
10..Bears and Chargers 29
12.Steelers and Packers 25
Don't belong....Panthers 19

Not the final say just a tool to help with my picks

Last night Rodgers threw a dart to Theilen you know the one, my God what a throw.

That Steeler kicker has to be the happiest kicker in the world today.

I do have one LOCK....Rams over the Panthers 46-19 will do that.

 

[Madmick]

The 40 has zero to do with anything here, a total non factor.

That's nonsense. Elite sprinters have elite 40 yard dash times (or 30m marks if you will). There is a powerful correlation there even if it hasn't been exhaustively mapped.

Profiling elite male 100-m sprint performance: The role of maximum velocity and relative acceleration - PMC

Four split times can model velocity-time and velocity-distance curves accurately during acceleration in elite male sprinters. Maximum velocity was negatively associated with all 20-m sections of a 100-m sprint in addition to overall sprint time. The ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Selected Determinants of Acceleration in the 100m Sprint - PMC

The goal of this study was to examine the relationship between kinematics, motor abilities, anthropometric characteristics, and the initial (10 m) and secondary (30 m) acceleration phases of the 100 m sprint among athletes of different sprinting ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Since most of these guys weren't competitive track stars their official 40-yard dash times are the most reliable data we have to speculate about their 100m or top speed potential. Again, this doesn't void the logic of other speculations (for which we also don't have concrete data) involving concepts like stride length, which is why I added that commentary in my initial post addressing Slobodan, but it's plainly silly to dismiss the best information we have available to us indicating their top speed potential when considering hypothetical 100m times.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

That's nonsense. Elite sprinters have elite 40 yard dash times (or 30m marks if you will). There is a powerful correlation there even if it hasn't been exhaustively mapped.

Profiling elite male 100-m sprint performance: The role of maximum velocity and relative acceleration - PMC

Four split times can model velocity-time and velocity-distance curves accurately during acceleration in elite male sprinters. Maximum velocity was negatively associated with all 20-m sections of a 100-m sprint in addition to overall sprint time. The ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Selected Determinants of Acceleration in the 100m Sprint - PMC

The goal of this study was to examine the relationship between kinematics, motor abilities, anthropometric characteristics, and the initial (10 m) and secondary (30 m) acceleration phases of the 100 m sprint among athletes of different sprinting ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Since most of these guys weren't competitive track stars their official 40-yard dash times are the most reliable data we have to speculate about their 100m or top speed potential. Again, this doesn't void the logic of other speculations (for which we also don't have concrete data) involving concepts like stride length, which is why I added that commentary about my initial post aimed at Slob, but it's plainly silly to dismiss the best information we have available to us indicating their top speed potential when considering hypothetical 100m times.

Herb Washington was the greatest indoor 60 cat ever, he broke the 5.9 world record (erasing 22 names) with his 5.8.

Steve Wiliams was a long strider, a 44.9 400m dude, sucked in a 60, too short.

There I am in Fresno next event on the track the 100 yard dash. In lane 4 Herb Washington, lane 5 Jamaican Don Quarrie, lane 6 Steve Willliams they were the class in that field. At the gun Washington is gone, by 50 he has a good two yards on the field, then here they came, both Williams and Quarrie blew by him Wiliams tying the 9.1 worrld record, Quarrie at 9.3 as was Washington.

I have seen that race many times fast starters getting ran down because they lacked the most important aspect of 100m sprintng..........SPEED ENDURANCE. Washington was not a 200m cat he was 60/100 he lacked speed endurance.

A 40 means nothing when talking the 100m, all that is is acceleration which isn't all that at 100m. Yes the 40 more important in football.

Fordhams Sam Perry twice won the USA 60 championship, he was one of those 5.9 world record holders, what did he do at 100 yards..........nothing.

I know better than to put much into a 40 when talking 100m, I was quick out of the blocks and right there at 40, then my laziness came into play as everyone in te race started passing me, I ran track for football way too lazy for that sport. ZERO speed endurance.

 

[Madmick]

A 40 means nothing when talking the 100m, all that is is acceleration which isn't all that at 100m.

Wrong. Just wrong. It absolutely means something. Show me an elite international 100m sprinter who runs a 4.7+ 40-yard dash (or a similar conversion from the first 30m or 40m split of a timed race).

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

Wrong. Just wrong. It absolutely means something. Show me an elite international 100m sprinter who runs a 4.7+ 40-yard dash (or a similar conversion from the first 30m of his best race).

What you aren't getting is Sam Perry/Herb Washington would win the 40, win the 50 vs Steve Williams, Don Quarrie but lose the 100m.

OBVIOUSLY all sprinters can run a decent 40, but without SPEED ENDURANCE it won't matter.

Sprinters train running repeat 300's, why? Yep, building that speed endurance, without it you stand no chance vs those with it, the 40 a non factor if running a 100m.

Most the great 100m sprinters were also stud 200m cats. Bolt holds the WR in both.

Christian Coleman runs a 4.12 40, he holds the 60m WR at 6.34, he didn't make out World Champs 100m team, he did leadoff the 4x1.

i could rattle off a list of great 60m dudes who did nothing at 100yards 100m, SPEED ENDURANCE........ok guy?

 

[Madmick]

What you aren't getting is Sam Perry/Herb Washington would win the 40, win the 50 vs Steve Williams, Don Quarrie but lose the 100m.

OBVIOUSLY all sprinters can run a decent 40, but without SPEED ENDURANCE it won't matter.

Concession accepted.

Because you're changing claims, now. It's no longer that the "40 means nothing when talking the 100m", it's that it doesn't mean everything. Duh. That doesn't escape me. I've consistently alluded to that very fact since my first post in this thread. It's why I was talking about Kaep's stride length.

However, without any material evidence of top speed or 100m times conveying their capability in that 60m back end of the 100m race, how are you determining which QBs would be the best at this back end? That's a question the thread invites. I provided some evidence to substantiate Kaepernick's raw potential to be better, there, although it doesn't prove it. RG3 was the only QB you noted who had an actual track career in the OP. This uncertainty, our ignorance of this, is the area of mystery where the thread invites us to speculate.

All I have forwarded is that in the absence of definite evidence to answer that question the best material indication we have of their top speed potential is their tested 40-yard dash times. It's better than anything else we have. Even speed gun data for QBs from the last decade won't help since QB runs almost NEVER extend beyond 40 yards, and even when they do, the QB is carrying a ball, is weighed down by his pads, is potentially still zig-zagging to avoid tacklers pursuing him, isn't necessarily running on a field in the same condition as another QB on a long run, etc.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

Concession accepted.

Because you're changing claims, now. It's no longer that the "40 means nothing when talking the 100m", it's that it doesn't mean everything. Duh. That doesn't escape me. I've consistently alluded to that very fact since my first post in this thread. It's why I was talking about Kaep's stride length.

However, without any material evidence of top speed or 100m times conveying their capability in that 60m back end of the 100m race, how are you determining which QBs would be the best at this back end? That's a question the thread invites. I provided some evidence to substantiate Kaepernick's raw potential to be better, there, although it doesn't prove it. RG3 was the only QB you noted who had an actual track career in the OP. This uncertainty, our ignorance of this, is the area of mystery where the thread invites us to speculate.

All I have forwarded is that in the absence of definite evidence to answer that question the best material indication we have of their top speed potential is their tested 40-yard dash times. It's better than anything else we have. Even speed gun data for QBs from the last decade won't help since QB runs almost NEVER extend beyond 40 yards, and even when they do, the QB is carrying a ball, is weighed down by his pads, is potentially still zig-zagging to avoid tacklers pursuing him, isn't necessarily running on a field in the same condition as another QB on a long run, etc.

I have seen all of them play and being a track geek I have a good eye for what speed looks like, could have gone with........the fastest QB's I have seen in the NFL.

So who would you have in your NFL FASTEST QB;s, go ahead.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

QB's

Allen/Stafford a level above

just below

Maye/Purdy/Herbert/Lawrence/Darnold

Then

Rodgers/Love/Williams/Hurt/Nix

rest don't matter

 

[Kung Fu Kowboy]

You picked the 4 teams with the best records...

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

You picked the 4 teams with the best records...

Not picks it's who scored the highest in my system, winning will do that.

Like I mentioned........just a tool not some final anything.

Weather, injuries, also comes into play as does QB play. Stuff like Tomlin never losing on Mondays.

Home/Road a biggie.

 

[Kung Fu Kowboy]

Not picks it's who scored the highest in my system, winning will do that.

Like I mentioed........just a tool not some final anything.

Weather, injuries, also comes into play as does QB play.

Home/Road a biggie.

Looks like the Vegas odds to me Sherhomie.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

Looks like the Vegas odds to me Sherhomie.

Unless you actually play ATS (used to, a 110 to win 100 player) you ignore the spread, you look for advantages you dont need that spread distraction.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

In my system the Rams with 46 points vs a 19 point Panthers team, there I don't need to see more that is just too damn strong.

Rams the OBVIOUS pick.

The rest not so dramatic a difference.

 

[Sir Elzio Dennick]

25 degrees in Patriot country right now and it will get colder.

Time to start looking at the weather, it does matter.

It snows in Denver.

A dome team out in the cold the snow, not good.