Every major MMA org seems to be in some kind of decline including the UFC

[PEB]

OK get this out of the way but UFC is on ESPN and has millions of followers and and and forget it. Recently PFL, bellator, One and others have been letting go decent prospects and future talent by large numbers. UFC also has hinted big changes in 2020 without going into specifics such as what big changes? Yet you hear from a number of fighters complaining that they have been let go or put on suspension for long periods of time. From the face it seems that each is having some kind of growing problem.

UFC has benefited by having such a difference in amount the organization collects vs what it pays the fighters where other organizations have had to put out more of their money. They also been forced into less lucrative streaming contracts with people like ESPN to hope to gain a mass market audience. UFC still has better pay per view prospects but have much larger costs to put on events. Watching from the sidelines I cannot help but think a shakeout is coming with these organizations as each one seems to facing some kind of major adjustment.

What does Sherdog think I know these threads come up often and seem to get massive push back from the UFC fan base but it seems like UFC is resorting again to resigning people like Conor McGregor and even as talks that a Fedor fight is off the cards Dana stated the one that he is most disappointed not signing was Fedor VS Lesner fight again looking past circus act VS actual World Championship level fight with deserving fighters. I believe if Lesnar and Fedor where to meet with Dana in some undisclosed location this fight would happen in a second. It goes to show you no matter what Dana lets his Vince out once and a while.

Dana even joked that he was willing to sign a one fight between a target employee and a shoplifter or something likely on YouTube. Other organizations problems are much deeper and difficult as each there has been claims of problems especially One where the former Pride FC man believes that a crime organization has ties to it coming from him that may have weight LOL.

I cannot help but think somethings in the works with Lesnar.

 

[AmericanMMA]

The UFC is doing just fine....

 

[strebitel86]

Well yeah, recession has hit the mma world. But one thing is certain, KSW is immune to that recession.

 

[strebitel86]

PFL splashing huge amounts of cash can be alarming, where do they get all those money and do they profit from it?

 

[Xuh]

MMA is dying

 

[PEB]

PFL splashing huge amounts of cash can be alarming, where do they get all those money and do they profit from it?

There has been talk about them borrowing huge amounts of cash last time was as much as two weeks ago around 2 million to pay for the MSG event. They right now depending on sources have around 8 to 10 million of outstanding debt but the people who hold the debt I believe are private investors not banks. So there may not be as much pressure to payoff the debt as if the banks where lending them money. They likely have larger outstanding debts but they only hold big money events every year or so. They don't have big payouts as often as other more established organizations like UFC or even Bellator. PFL pays out 1 million sounds like a lot but I don't think fighters share the ticket sales income.

 

[MMALOPEZ]

There has been talk about them borrowing huge amounts of cash last time was as much as two weeks ago around 2 million to pay for the MSG event. They right now depending on sources have around 8 to 10 million of outstanding debt but the people who hold the debt I believe are private investors not banks. So there may not be as much pressure to payoff the debt as if the banks where lending them money. They likely have larger outstanding debts but they only hold big money events every year or so. They don't have big payouts as often as other more established organizations like UFC or even Bellator. PFL pays out 1 million sounds like a lot but I don't think fighters share the ticket sales income.

PFL has raised 58 million $ in the last 2 years from private investors. Espn pays them 500k per show. So 5$ mil per year. Tickets sales are non existent for them, they give away a large % of their tickets. So their debt is far superior

 

[skylolow]

I don't think the UFC is on downtrend. They have more guaranteed money coming in then ever before. Sure they take hit on PPV buys being streamed but they also are getting bottom line revenue from ESPN before the PPV event is even announced. They also have BT Sports now charging for UFC PPV's in those parts of the world. Most TV media deals around the world that have come up for renew have been doubled in value from the last contract. The UFC in a nutshell is doing just fine and will continue to grow. It's just how they make their money isn't what fans are use to in 2008 or whatever. They got bought for 4 billion or whatever and the last round of investment money had valued at over 6 billion(probably aggressive but that is par for the course).

Now the other orgs. Bellator with DAZN deal is huge. So until that runs out in another 18 months or so it's hard to say where Bellator really is outside of them actually being profitable because of that deal for the first time in their history. They had good growth in Europe over the last year or two to help add to the pot.

PFL....they keep getting investments and got the ESPN deal. Is it all sustainable on its own. I doubt it as it sounds like they still have many of the problems that have plagued them in the past.

ONE...to me is almost smoke and mirrors org. Revenue grows and so does debt year after year. After so many years that debt should start coming down but its growing larger and larger.

I think the biggest issue at hand here is the expectation of fans of MMA. It's almost like they can't comprehend that the UFC has won the worldwide battle for MMA domination and are always comparing these other orgs to the UFC like its PRIDE and the year is 2004 or something. I think the question people should be asking is can these orgs sustain themselves much longer at this pace(not including the UFC)??? Like when Bellator's media deal with DAZN comes up at the 3 year mark, Dazn currently has a 2 year option they can take at a significant raise from now 33 million a year or so deal. Which I think is over paying anyways for what they get. But to each its own, they got it. That mark will be a very telling story of what might hold for Belaltor's future. If Dazn and Bellator don't come to an agreement what happens to Bellator?? What the UFC has done for MMA around the world with there growth from about 2006 to this day is what laid the groundwork for these orgs to exist and get capital investments and media deals. Now it's up to those individual orgs to earn their future investments in their orgs. So as these media deals run out and investors looking for some return over the course of the next few years it will really tell us if they have grown their businesses to be sustainable and investable in the future. If not some of them will probably close up shop eventually.

 

[qw3rty]

Espn pays them 500k per show.

Man I like PFL but I think ESPN could get a better org for that money.

 

[SandisLL]

Bout Bieber versus some another well known musician.
I'm sure that with this more than 10 mil with tickets and ppv could be earned with a glance.

 

[mime]

Mainstream doesnt want to watch 2 half naked men fight each other in a cage until submission or one loses consciousness? They're even less interested in unpromoted 2nd, 3rd and 4th tier organizations of this? It's in decline after it's so overexposed where theres 2-3 events a week of random guys fighting? This is crazy. Sport must grow so we can talk mma with our moms and random people on the street.

 

[The Reed]

I blame the lack of star power and amount of events lacking in that star power.
Currently UFC do have some popular names but back in the Brock era we all pretty much knew everyone.
Despite pretty much watching every event, I often see a fighter I'm not familliar with, look at their record and they're on something like a 5 fight winning streak in the UFC.

 

[Yrat]

What i think we are going to see 2020-2030 is a disruption due to Bareknuckle FC.

If a UFC fighter such as Junior Dos Santos will go over to BKFC it can lead to a new era where the majority of UFC fighters will leave once their contract has been expired.


That can also lead to a something new since the ruleset of Bare Knuckle benefots boxers and mma-fighters, we all saw that between Artem Lobon and Paulie Malignaggi.

Correct me if i am wrong.

Also the Generation Z will not watch that much sport events as before (born after 1996) since they will prefer e-sports.


If the other events such as Bellator,ONE,Rizin,KSW want to survive they need to make this celibrity fights like Logan Paul.

 

[skylolow]

What i think we are going to see 2020-2030 is a disruption due to Bareknuckle FC.

If a UFC fighter such as Junior Dos Santos will go over to BKFC it can lead to a new era where the majority of UFC fighters will leave once their contract has been expired.


That can also lead to a something new since the ruleset of Bare Knuckle benefots boxers and mma-fighters, we all saw that between Artem Lobon and Paulie Malignaggi.

Correct me if i am wrong.

Also the Generation Z will not watch that much sport events as before (born after 1996) since they will prefer e-sports.


If the other events such as Bellator,ONE,Rizin,KSW want to survive they need to make this celibrity fights like Logan Paul.

I don't know about all that with Bare Knuckle. My understanding is their finances aren't the greatest. They have capitalized on few named guys that really didn't have much other options of making good money. But I don't think they made money on some of those events.

As the UFC continues to grow you'd hope guys that reach the level of JDS will never need to work again when they retire from the UFC and that will hurt the growth of some of these orgs.

I'd predict 2020-2030 maybe the decade you see the fighters come together in the UFC once and for all. A lot of your up and coming stars in this decade will have grown up in era that has been pleading for the fighters to ban together. When this occurs I think it may cripple other orgs from attracting really good talent.

 

[Yrat]

I don't know about all that with Bare Knuckle. My understanding is their finances aren't the greatest. They have capitalized on few named guys that really didn't have much other options of making good money. But I don't think they made money on some of those events.

As the UFC continues to grow you'd hope guys that reach the level of JDS will never need to work again when they retire from the UFC and that will hurt the growth of some of these orgs.

I'd predict 2020-2030 maybe the decade you see the fighters come together in the UFC once and for all. A lot of your up and coming stars in this decade will have grown up in era that has been pleading for the fighters to ban together. When this occurs I think it may cripple other orgs from attracting really good talent.

I also believe middle eastern and Africa will get a more impact with talents and promotion

Ares FC was just holded in Senegal together with a French TV channel

More countries will allow mma and that can create new mma promotions globally

If China has the right managment and pr they can surpass rizin and one but on the other hand China will have issues when it comes to social media, aslong you can't watch fights on YouTube or Facebook there so no point

Khabib is part of Gorilla FC IN Russia and perhaps that can surpass Aca in the future

 

[kimocomplex]

every year since 1993 UFC has been dying bro

 

[dim_]

The UFC have Jones back, McGregor back, Tony v Khabib lined up and its first Chinese champion
Rizin have just had their best event ever
PFL is shit
Bellator isnt any different to how its always been

 

[kse08]

The UFC have Jones back, McGregor back, Tony v Khabib lined up and its first Chinese champion
Rizin have just had their best event ever
PFL is shit
Bellator isnt any different to how its always been

Rizin 20 was definitely their best event but unfortunately it bombed bad on tv and tv rating is what they need to survive. I agree with OP that mma in general is in a heavy decline. UFC is the only thriving company.

 

[leto1776]

Rizin 20 was definitely their best event but unfortunately it bombed bad on tv and tv rating is what they need to survive. I agree with OP that mma in general is in a heavy decline. UFC is the only thriving company.

It didn’t bomb. The ratings weren’t as high as previous years, but that could be due to shifting demographics.

 

[CC27]

UFC and Bellator are making more money than they ever have before.