Essential takedowns
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I think you need the double leg, single leg, body lock, tani otoshi, hip throw, outside trip and osoto gari.
I don't think you necessarily need those throws because those are the best, but I think learning them gives you the ability to engage in MMA sparring without hurting yourself. You get a lot of defense from learning them and their counters.
I don't think you necessarily need those throws because those are the best, but I think learning them gives you the ability to engage in MMA sparring without hurting yourself. You get a lot of defense from learning them and their counters.
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I'm only a white belt, so my opinion isn't worth a lot, but for me the essential takedowns are the ones that I hit consistently. For me personally, you're talking tomoe nage, belly to belly/belly to side suplex, John Smith single, inside trip, ankle pick... and straight double but everybody should know that. Kind of a fucked up mix that nobody in their right mind would suggest anybody does but it works for me so damn fuckin skippy I'm gonna keep with those takedowns...
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You should be at least decent at double and single legs and outside trips. More important than specific takedowns I think every MMA fighter needs to be good at clinch fighting, whether that's to set up a TD, set up dirty boxing, or get free of clinches to strike at distance. But having watched a ton of MMA and trained some (mostly in the context of helping friends get ready for fights), I've noticed that the main TDs that actually work are double and single legs at distance, and double and single legs and outside trips up against the cage. I'd estimate that 80% of TDs in MMA can be classified as one of those three moves.
Generally when you see someone having success with other TDs it's a skill set they've brought from some other grappling sport which while it might be effective is usually not something that someone training MMA from scratch would want to spend time focusing on (e.g. Ronda has great Judo but for someone starting MMA without the background trying to replicate her game would be hugely time consuming and counterproductive).
Generally when you see someone having success with other TDs it's a skill set they've brought from some other grappling sport which while it might be effective is usually not something that someone training MMA from scratch would want to spend time focusing on (e.g. Ronda has great Judo but for someone starting MMA without the background trying to replicate her game would be hugely time consuming and counterproductive).
Nice input !
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Yeah, I like this response best. I don't disagree with the video, but I'm still a strong believer in doing what works for the individual. I don't believe any martial art is one size fits all. Body type, reflexes, strength, size all play a factor and you have to adapt accordingly.
Anyway, for me personally, I don't like double legs. I have a big ass head that is an easy target for guillotines. So even if I do the right thing in a double leg, I still end up having to fight it off. So the double expends a bunch of energy, and then fighting the guillotine expends even more. The double just isn't for me.
I find it odd you chose the outside trip. In my mind the inside trip works better against the cage. Also, in my experience ( not sure if statistically significant), very often in the over/under the guy rises his head up and it's easy for me to grab his head with my overhooking arm and do a hip throw, I think (not familiar with english terminology).
Also, the bodylock lift and slam takedowns, seems quite popular.
Anyway, thanks for replay, looking forward to others thoughts
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I include the outside trip for two reasons:
You will hear a lot of, "can't double leg me when I'm kneeing you in the face," from guys who did Muay Thai. It is a matter of pride when they find out that they shouldn't stand so tall with their feet so close together when clinching. The outside trip is illegal in Muay Thai.
As soon as the outside trip becomes regular, the stance changes. They don't usually seem to have a retort for the outside trip.
Also, people will try the outside trip without being trained in it and without having seen it before. They can hurt one another and the fall for someone standing too tall and not understanding it is titanic. While you could say the same for a lot of throws, untrained people won't usually try an Uchi Mata.
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You need to have a double leg, single leg, and be able to come up to a body lock. Like someone said earlier. Those three are the ones you see the most.. And they're the basics so everyone needs a functional idea of how to do them.
On top of that, you can hit them from space or a clinch, you don't have to worry about getting stuck in a nightmare situation like Rousey did where the ONLY way she had to get it to the ground was getting her hands locked around her opponents head
On top of that, you can hit them from space or a clinch, you don't have to worry about getting stuck in a nightmare situation like Rousey did where the ONLY way she had to get it to the ground was getting her hands locked around her opponents head
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Outside trip is much easier to pull off and much more common as a TD among non-wrestlers/Judoka. It also works better in space (watch Lyoto Machida for good examples of that, though there are plenty of others). Bodylock lifts you see some, but it's hard to identify as a specific throw. You see twist downs, Polish throws, etc. from bodylocks but I think most common is people dropping to a double when they get double unders against the cage. Hip throws are nice to have but I don't consider them essential. Some of the best TD artists ever in MMA (Matt Hughes comes to mind) never used him throws, I consider them more opportunism if you catch a whizzer or strong over/under as the guy is coming forward. There are lots of good TDs to have (various foot sweeps are really handy against the cage), but you asked about essentials and I really think there are only a few.
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I think that's a pretty solid set of takedowns. You'll get pretty far just focusing on these techniques.
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Are leg takedowns practical when wearing the jacket?
I've found this http://www.mmafightdb.com/top-10-mma-takedowns/
The 5 most successful takedown, in order of frequency, are double leg, single leg, outside trip, the bodylock ( I guess with all it's variants) and the suplex. You are right !
I don't understand why they included the duckunder as a takedowns. For me, it's more of a transitional move, trying to take the back of the opponent.
Yes, they are. The double leg and single leg are the most versatile takedowns. In my opinion, even in the gi, wrestling is better. Only if you are a high level fighter and you want to be a verry good at stand up, judo is the way to go.
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Often a successful duckunder leaves your opponent on their knees, depends exactly how you hit it.
I wouldn't give those numbers a vast amount of credence as they don't seem to think GSP hits any high-crotches...
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How low can you go?
For real, i think the low single has big potential to become a 'secret weapon' in mma. In wrestling its not unheard of to see people shooting low from far outside even without much setup beyond maybe a misdirection. The higher stances in mma can make it even more useful. Couple with the fact that there is even less risk from catching a clip of something while shooting in.
The other hand in essential takedowns I think is going 'high' with the shot. Ive noted that in their fight shields took palhares down multiple times, and many times the way he finished was not by wrapping up a leg, but by getting a waist lock and using that to rag doll him to the mat. More importantly, using the waist lock let him takedown strait to side control, which can normally be very difficult on a leg shot vs a competent opponent.
For real, i think the low single has big potential to become a 'secret weapon' in mma. In wrestling its not unheard of to see people shooting low from far outside even without much setup beyond maybe a misdirection. The higher stances in mma can make it even more useful. Couple with the fact that there is even less risk from catching a clip of something while shooting in.
The other hand in essential takedowns I think is going 'high' with the shot. Ive noted that in their fight shields took palhares down multiple times, and many times the way he finished was not by wrapping up a leg, but by getting a waist lock and using that to rag doll him to the mat. More importantly, using the waist lock let him takedown strait to side control, which can normally be very difficult on a leg shot vs a competent opponent.
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Why dont judoka do it more then in competition? You dont see it a lot in the high level comps.
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I'd say it depends on application.
For "street fighting" MMA, I think the bodylock is the easiest to learn effectively. For No-gi grappling, I like the single.
I'm going to go against the grain here,but I think the double is really hard to hit if you haven't been shooting doubles since high school.
I think the time that most pure BJJ'ers spend trying to improve their double shot should be spent on other takedowns instead.
For "street fighting" MMA, I think the bodylock is the easiest to learn effectively. For No-gi grappling, I like the single.
I'm going to go against the grain here,but I think the double is really hard to hit if you haven't been shooting doubles since high school.
I think the time that most pure BJJ'ers spend trying to improve their double shot should be spent on other takedowns instead.
