Electric chair Illegal?

[dataws6]

So a little over a year ago I attended an Eddie Bravo seminar. I liked the electric chair submission, then saw a guy do it in a Combatives tournament. So I trained it alot no gi with some combatives guys and got pretty good at it.
My question is:

Is the electric chair illegal in gi, no gi, BJJ tournaments etc.

The reason I ask is becuase I have been taking Gi BJJ and a nobody really had an issue with it until I tapped a purple belt with it (Im a white belt with no gi experience) he got super pissed and told me its illegal and white belts cant do leg attacks. so I ask the instructor (another purple belt) whos english is limited and he basically tells me only a black belt is allowed to do it.
I just want to see what other schools do becuase just a couple days prior the black belt went extensively into ankle locks with everyone white belts included.
From my experience straight ankle locks and straight knee bars are ok and its the twisting leg locks that will do major damage to the knee joint and are either illegal or looked down on. The electric chair only stretches the thighs its not twisting at all and its a major joint being effected not a small joint IE: wrist ankle etc.

 

[Corey Kuropas]

If a tournament for no gi uses rules that NAGA does, then it's legal. All neck cranks and leg locks are legal, so it would be.

 

[fourfif**]

Edit: I'm a nogi guy so was speaking out of turn here. Illegal is the answer it appear.

 

[Wrestleben]

Definitely illegal in the gi in most tournaments except for higher belts. The purple belt obviously wasn't expecting it. Taps in practice mean nothing. STFU and train.

 

[redaxe]

He's right, it's illegal. In the rules we use in Korea BJJ Confederation (basically IBJJF rules with a couple of minor differences), white belts can only do upper body submissions (and no neck cranks nor bicep slicers nor wristlocks).

Blue and purple belts are the same with the addition of straight ankle locks and wristlocks.

Only brown belts and up can do kneebars, toeholds, bicep crushers, calf crushers, etc. so I think the electric chair would be legal from brown belt on, too. Meanwhile heel hooks and neck cranks/spinal locks are basically never legal here in Korea, even in our no-gi tournaments.

So, when you train with the Koreans in your gi BJJ class, don't do any leg submissions for now. When you get your blue you can start doing straight ankle locks in the gi. But focus on your guard, guard passing, and basic upper body submissions for now.

 

[goatfury]

In the gi, at IBJJF tournaments, the electric chair is always going to be illegal. Most respectable gi tournaments will use some variation of their rules.

A good rule of thumb with IBJJF gi tournaments (and US Grappling, for instance - my tournaments) is that the only leglocks allowed from white through purple belt is the straight ankle (straight footlock). For reffing purposes, when your opponent is on your back and crosses their ankles is considered a straight footlock.

Brown and black belts are also allowed to do kneebars and toe holds.


Now, when you start talking about no-gi, you get into a whole different animal. The electric chair would be considered advanced and up for US Grappling. The "crotch ripper" submissions are often used in our rules discussions. Similarly, the calf slicer, toe hold, and heel hook would be considered adult advanced only, while straight kneebars and straight ankle locks are considered legal for all adult no-gi divisions.

Hope this helps. I'm glad to answer any other specific rules questions, but I might not see the message here - just shoot me an email at andrew @ usgrappling.us.

 

[yovan]

Taps in practice mean nothing. STFU and train.

Words of wisdom

 

[dataws6]

Thats the plan guys to train and train correctly. I was just giving the whole story and not to mention I train in Korea and dont speak korean so I just wanted to be clear on the situation and rules. I used it on about 10 other guys and nobody really said anything up until the purple belt.
And ofcourse he wasnt expecting it thats the beauty of the submission most dont expect it.
anyways thanks for the advice all. Ill use it as a pass in gi and save the sub for Combatives and no gi competition. But I will smile at you with your legs spread before I pass!

 

[fourfif**]

re: all this stfu stuff it doesn't seem like the kid is bragging, he's asking a legitimate question.

 

[Crazy Legs]

Graciemag International Ever had a banana split?

“I’ve heard of the move and, unfortunately, there’s nothing in the rules preventing its use,” says Alvaro Mansur, head referee for the IBJJF.

 

[fourfif**]

Graciemag International Ever had a banana split?

 

[nefti]

it's legal. it doesn't attack the knee or the hip.

 

[redaxe]

Thats the plan guys to train and train correctly. I was just giving the whole story and not to mention I train in Korea and dont speak korean so I just wanted to be clear on the situation and rules. I used it on about 10 other guys and nobody really said anything up until the purple belt.
And ofcourse he wasnt expecting it thats the beauty of the submission most dont expect it.
anyways thanks for the advice all. Ill use it as a pass in gi and save the sub for Combatives and no gi competition. But I will smile at you with your legs spread before I pass!

That's the best choice.

Beware that this is a common pitfall in BJJ, I have seen it many times. Some guys waste their time training leglock techniques that are illegal at their belt level just so they can tap their training partners in practice, and as a result they never advance beyond white or blue belt because they are too concerned with getting cheap taps and haven't put the time into working on their basic techniques.

I'm not saying you are that guy, I'm just saying don't be that guy and don't go that route because it leads to a dead end. There are no shortcuts in BJJ!

 

[BSFT]

re: all this stfu stuff it doesn't seem like the kid is bragging, he's asking a legitimate question.

this.

if you have a question about what is allowed in your gym, ask your instructor, if you are wondering about what is allowed at a tourney, ask at the rules meeting.

 

[Wrestleben]

Thinly veiled brag post.

 

[Calibur]

That's the best choice.

Some guys waste their time training leglock techniques that are illegal at their belt level just so they can tap their training partners in practice, and as a result they never advance beyond white or blue belt because they are too concerned with getting cheap taps!

Cheap? You gonna explain this?

 

[djbrujoh]

From Training:

I've been doing the electric chair submission for a year now in training,
so far have had three guy's blow out their knee's

Injury happens when

1) partner tries to spin out or forcefully escape the lockdown.

2) Or squeezing lockdown too hard which sometimes turns into a calf crunch with my thick legs -(as well partners have no no clue SPAZZING)

So I know better now,
ONLY do it very carefully in three levels. (last level being fullsplit)

Saw a competition video and it was illegal in NO-Gi

goodluck

 

[Mikey Triangles]

Graciemag International Ever had a banana split?

“I’ve heard of the move and, unfortunately, there’s nothing in the rules preventing its use,” says Alvaro Mansur, head referee for the IBJJF.

Bingo. It's not illegal. The problem with the electric chair though is that people do it with the "lockdown" locked-in and that can also torque the knee which is dangerous and illegal.

Groin Stretch submissions are technically legal at all levels for adults. there is no mention of them under fouls in the IBJJF rules:

International Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Federation

So it's risky. the lockdown does torque the knee when it's used like this so you have a chance of getting DQ'd for a tap. The technique is also easy to counter if you have a decent brabo, and easy to escape if you have good flexibility and balance. I'm not really a big fan of this one myself.

 

[dataws6]

"if you have a question about what is allowed in your gym, ask your instructor, if you are wondering about what is allowed at a tourney, ask at the rules meeting."

Again living in South Korea and that particular day there wasnt anyone that could speak fluent english, so I was a bit confused on exactly what the guy was so pissed about and it was the first month I had trained Gi so I was fairly new to the rules IE: I was grabing sleeves with my thumb on the inside and quickly found out that was illegal... Theres been one tournament here that I wasnt involved with so there was no asking at the tournament meeting.

"Thinly veiled brag post."

Think what you want but if it was another white belt, blue, purple, brown, or black, I was posting the situation that brought up the question. But for fun and to make you happy I have cought multiple purple belts in it and they were too flexible so I just passed. I cant say wether or not my brown belt instructor was going easy on me or what not but I got him in it the other day and same thing he was too flexible and I passed then he tapped me with ease.

All of you talking about how dangerous it is must be mistaken on how its done. Its a good groin stretch only, if done the way I was tought and pracaticed and I first saw it straight from Eddie Bravo himself.

Maybe I wasnt clear I re read my original post and I put (I have no gi training) I can see how thats not clear. True I had no training with the Gi but I meant I have trained not wearing a gi directly under a black belt and mma fighter for approx 8 months. So I do have a bit more experience than your average white belt that just started training.

Since that guy thought I was bragging Im done bragging now!

 

[redaxe]

Cheap? You gonna explain this?

Sure. It's "cheap" to tap someone with a technique that they are not defending against because it is illegal at their belt level.

Like I said, this is a common pitfall. You start using funky leg locks on people and you get them to tap, maybe even purple belts, so then you start to think that you are really awesome at leg locks, but it's really just because they are illegal and no one is defending against them. So you just keep doing them to get the taps and boost your ego, and meanwhile you are not putting the time into developing your guard passing and upper body submissions. The rest of your skills lag behind, but because your ego is so inflated from tapping everyone out with leg locks, you can't be honest with yourself and work on fixing the gaping holes in your game. Then you wonder why you've been training for seven years and still only have a blue belt.

And while there might be some ambiguity in the IBJJF rules, the electric chair is DEFINITELY illegal here in Korea.