Do you believe that training MMA to start is inherently superior to building on a base?

[BigMuffler]

Some people think the quality of MMA fighters will be greatly improved by more people training in all aspects of MMA from an early age, instead of training in an individual martial art and then adding more to their game. However, all of our current champions and most top contenders are people who started with a base and added to it. Rory is often held up as an example of a cross-trained early, new breed fighter, but he has not proven to be the clear best in his division and indeed suffered multiple losses to more specialized fighters.

Do you believe that fighters who train MMA from the start will render fighters with bases obsolete, or are there benefits to beginning with a base? One advantage of having a base I can think of is that you will likely at least have one aspect of your game that is (relatively) strong starting out, while a completely balanced new fighter could just be mediocre in all areas.

 

[TheWaxMurderer]

Rory only comes up short against the best of the best. He's a great example that training all aspects of MMA from the start makes a well rounded fighter.

 

[Repsac]

If you want to be an MMA fighter? Yes. I do.

 

[Final Say]

I think you should focus on what you're best at without completely neglecting other aspects. Also, if you go that route you need to train to keep the fight in your favor. For instance, if you know you want to strike, you should drill takedown defense as much as you train your striking. Obviously you'll grapple as well, but I believe in focusing on what you like and are best at

 

[ZuffaExecutive]

Yes training all round from the start is ideal.Otherwise you will have guys like Hendricks who soon as they cant get in that range to threaten a takedown look like there lost .But you will have an explosion in both bjj and mma were u have a better quality of athlete competing in both and you will see an explosion in the competitive levels.

You will look back at the current level of mma in 20 years and laugh at how people could enter the sport at 28 or so and be competitive at the pro level

 

[Bend NvR Break]

IMO, form a really strong base in something so you always have something to fall back to on instinct.

 

[Toxxus]

As a long time practioner of TMAs and having had a brief stint of MMA I'd say, without any hesitation at all, that starting in MMA is better.

 

[BRASIL WAND]

I solely believe grappling(wrestling, BJJ, or Judo) is always going to be the best base for MMA.


One of the first lessons I learned was "Its better to master 100% of one thing than learn 20% of five."


There are always rare exceptions but this is the most fundamentally sound way to success in MMA.

 

[bjpenngoat]

no I dont believe that because while you have to be solid everywhere some things are more important than technique and skill. A guy that has chin heart and cardio will go way farther in mma than a flashy scary guy with insane skills everywhere but cant get hit or a guy that has shit cardio. Lets take for examplew the career paths of Edson BArbosa and Matt Brown. Brown isnt especially skilled anywhere but he has all the intangibles, while barbosa seems to lack in the intangibles but has all the skill. Matt Brown was one fight away from a title fight and has been top 10 and has completely overachieved but hes in the mix always. Barbosa kills three guys in a row then gets into a war with a guy with way more inatngibles and gets destroyed everytime. Wjhen its all said and done I think Brown will have had the better career based on realizing his potential and bigger wins and being closer to a title shot than Edson. Listen I think BArboza is a fucking beast, on paper he should be a fedor type of champ no one can hang with that guy on the feet but he doesnt have the other side of the equation.
So to answer ts' question, being well rounded from a young age is great but it doesnt mean anything if you dont have what it takes underneath to compete at that level.

 

[Lemmy]

solid base + mma training > mma training

obviously if you train, i e, boxing since you're 12 and then enter the mma's gym in your 30's it's not the same than training 3-4 years in boxing and then, before your 20's, entering the mma's gym.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

It probably depends on the person but I do think it's better to be really good at one thing and be able to round out a skill set to keep it in that one area than to be a jack of all trades but not elite in any area. Being well rounded is nice but it seems more important to be very good in one area, we see more guys like Shields and Okami that are great in one area then top guys being just good in a bunch of different areas but not elite at anything.

 

[Son of Werdum]

I was someone who trained multiple disciplines when I was little but never trained at an MMA gym til I was 18. The problem with say just learning boxing or wrestling from an MMA gym is often the trainers have a field of expertise and cannot teach other disciplines at a high technical level. You get trainers like Edmond who convince their students they can train them to an elite level in boxing just because they watched a few YouTube videos on technique.

That being said, the more arts you train young the better. The way you utilize leverage is completely different in boxing and wrestling, both take a lifetime of training to do at an elite level. You can't just swap to boxing from wrestling at 25 and expect to have any success. So ideally you would start Jiu Jitsu, wrestling, boxing, and Muay Thai at a young age then start tying it all together at an MMA gym in your mid to late teens.

 

[deltapapha]

depends on natural athleticism. If not naturally athletic, you need very strong base. If naturally athletic you can get by without one.

 

[D4C]

MMA coaching will just get more and more professional and kids will start practicing younger and younger. Wait a few years and we'll have dozen of GSP-esque prospects who not only excel in every aspect of the sport, but also have the right mentality and a very tactical approach.

 

[Taric]

Since there's no such thing as MMA training for children (and never will be imo), it's always going to be better to train judo/wrestling/bjj/sambo at 5 years old then transition into MMA training when in your teenage years.

 

[MechMA]

Yes... Its a large part of why Rory beat Maia.
Rory vs Lawler is just an example of Lawler being a freak of nature... People tend to forget that if Rory played it safe in the fifth he would have won.

That said, if you are good at catching on to the other aspects of mma, having a base to start isn't a bad thing... It's been proven that being a very strong wrestler is sometimes a trump card to win a fight...

I'd say unless you spent your vast majority of time doing a martial art that doesn't have much MMA application (Aikido, fencing, kendo, McDojo sport TKD, etc) you'll probably be fine if you are talented.
Jon Jones wasn't a world beater as a wrestler. And then went on to outgrapple DC who was the captain of the Olympic Team.

I'd say 10 years from now, most champs will be people like Rory who started doing MMA instead of other sports at a young age...

I honestly think that if Rory was just a bit stronger and faster he would be champ with a few title defenses by now... Robbie hitting harder and having absurd levels of durability is why he lost... Not talent or skill

 

[Korbis]

I think it's a lot easier for your opponent and their camp to plan for you without having to have one particular strength of yours to avoid.

 

[DorianGray]

Some people think the quality of MMA fighters will be greatly improved by more people training in all aspects of MMA from an early age, instead of training in an individual martial art and then adding more to their game. However, all of our current champions and most top contenders are people who started with a base and added to it. Rory is often held up as an example of a cross-trained early, new breed fighter, but he has not proven to be the clear best in his division and indeed suffered multiple losses to more specialized fighters.

Do you believe that fighters who train MMA from the start will render fighters with bases obsolete, or are there benefits to beginning with a base? One advantage of having a base I can think of is that you will likely at least have one aspect of your game that is (relatively) strong starting out, while a completely balanced new fighter could just be mediocre in all areas.

Yes because I think it help with transitions and the little things you may not get just training one discipline or training then seperately and then learning how to put them together. E.g. nate diaz punching conors face into position for the rnc. I dont think you'd learn that in a strictly jj class (I know nate isn't an example of what the ts is talking about).

Like, imagine learning how to throw overhand rights and shoot double legs at the same time and in conjunction with each other. It will probably feel more natural to use both, and you'll probably land both more often then if your used to one set up for a double and one for an overhand and then you learn how to mix them up.

But I am speaking from a position of ignorance since I don't train mma

 

[MechMA]

As a long time practioner of TMAs and having had a brief stint of MMA I'd say, without any hesitation at all, that starting in MMA is better.

As a TMA guy currently in MMA this guy hit the nail on the head.
My Shotokan wasn't a McDojo and I am a decent athlete... So I am not completely garbage...
But there are 15 year olds in my gym (I'm 22) that if they had my body they would fucking murder me... Because they have been boxing and doing BJJ for a decade and I'm on year 3 of casual training.

My karate also left me bad habits like thinking a single strike will do... I am amazing entering and exiting the pocket, and have an accurate first strike in every exchange, but boxers with head movement, and 3+ strike combinations make me feel lost.

So it depends on the base largely. But starting MMA IS best

 

[HHJ]

If time has shown us anything,its that an expert at one thing,and having a little bit of something else,is probably better than coming out with being a little ok at everything. I think the most exceptional fighters were allready good at one thing,and add to it as they go along...I mean look at Yoel Romero. That guy is so good at striking now,than he uses his wrestling in reserve only when things arent going his way. That guy wouldnt be the fighter he is now,if he came up training mma from the beggining.