Defense against common street tactics

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bvidinha

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I was wondering what the best options are to defend against a) the one arm on the shirt and the dominant hand throwing punches aka hockey fighting because it is so easy to get sucked into doing the same as your opponent and throwing with them. And b) the typical untrained fighter who is extemely aggressive and pushes forward non stop with fast haymakers. For some reason i tend to just cover up and back up and cant get myself to bring my head up and fight back.

Ps I'm an experienced Muay Thai fighter and have slight experience in boxing and wrestling. In case you knowing my strengths would come into play.
 
a) Slap his hand out of the way and punch him in the nose. If he does grab your shirt you can chop down his elbow joint to bend the arm and drive your head to his face or whatever

b) Elbows in and throw strikes down the middle, hands up. Helps if you throw first but those guys have such bad defense, maybe it's more mental.

Just your MT basics but being proactive about it.
 
I don't believe you being an "experienced Muay Thai fighter" if you can't even clinch properly since foundational clinch skills would easily neutralize both scenarios. And if you try to argue that a double-collar grasp does no good in the belief that that is the extent of clinching, I'll disbelieve you even more as an "experienced Muay Thai fighter".
 
I would do:

a)If he holds with the left to punch with the right almost simultaneously try to hold his hand firmly against your chest with your left and move outside towards him, you should end up south paw and he should end up exposed on the left side, so quickly hook or cross him cleanly on the temple or chin a couple times, then you can hit more or sweep, eyepoke, waki-gatame or standing armbar him. He basically gives you a free grip that leaves his left side exposed. Drill it with a pal, you'll see it works really well. Mirror it if he's holding with his right.

b)English isn't my main language, but according to my understanding of what a haymaker is you mean the guy that wails on you almost like he's swimming front crawl? Cover up the side of your head with your lead arm bent, elbow kinda pointing towards him and either give him a straight at the same time or go right in and give him a right elbow (again guarding the head of course). I frankly prefer the elbow way more in these situations. Plenty of other ways to go about this, should be way easier than against someone that knows what he's doing.

These are just how I'd react though. Not claiming them to be the optimal way, but's I've tested them in training and they worked for me.
 
bvidinha said:
I was wondering what the best options are to defend against a) the one arm on the shirt and the dominant hand throwing punches aka hockey fighting because it is so easy to get sucked into doing the same as your opponent and throwing with them. And b) the typical untrained fighter who is extemely aggressive and pushes forward non stop with fast haymakers. For some reason i tend to just cover up and back up and cant get myself to bring my head up and fight back.

Ps I'm an experienced Muay Thai fighter and have slight experience in boxing and wrestling. In case you knowing my strengths would come into play.
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For shirt grabs there are lots of things you can do. You can pin his hand and break his wrist or his elbow depending on how quickly and hard the guy is punching. You can simply beat him to the punch since you no longer really have to worry about the grabbing hand as an offensive weapon. You can quickly pop a 3 to his bicep and a 2 to his face. You can wait for the punch and parry it to pin both his arms on one side of your body and get a good clinch and start side kneeing the shit out of him, you can take his leg out and drop him, you can dip your head so he breaks his hand on your skull...there's just tons of things you can do. Whether any particular thing will work is another story because every situation is different and there's never a single method that will work 100% of the time against any and all people.

For aggressive punchers, take him down with a good double leg or other body lock takedown then finish on the ground. Clinching/Holding works as well to stop punchers--if you're a muay thai you should know that. Keeping him turning will stop a constant barrage of attacks too, and you do this with footwork. He can't keep moving forward and punching you when you're always making him turn, but he can if you're just covering and moving back. Also you might want to practice fighting on the back step and working more with head movement and fighting on the inside if you think this is the case.
 
a) The more likely scenario is that when the guy grabs your shirt, his arm isn't going to be fully extended, so clinch up with him. And inexperienced fighter won't know how to neutralize the Thai Clinch, Double Underhooks, etc... Throw some knees to his face, take him down, do what you have to do and then get yourself out of the dangerous situation. If his arm is fully extended, grab that his hand and turn it over, while simultaneously hyper extending the elbow.

b) I found myself in that situation at a party one time. The thing about these guys, is that they have a tendency of gassing out very quickly, but it's dangerous to go toe-to-toe because it only takes one shot to get dropped. Gotta keep in mind that static guarding doesn't work in the streets, so you HAVE to rely on your footwork to maintain distance. When they rush in, you have to constantly sidestep. These guys are like trains when they rush in, so you have to move off the tracks instead of going backwards. When you go backwards, there is a very good chance that you will fall down (whether you trip, or get hit). Keep your distance with push kicks/front kicks, and fight dirty. Anything goes in the street. Worst case scenario, clinch up. Shoot a double leg on a guy if you have to.
 
A) if he grabs your shirt, just beat him to the punch since one of his arms cant be used, then combo, or get in the thai clinch and knee.

B) Against someone rushing in, i like to jump in with my own combo before they make it in range, what i mean by this is that if they are rushing in, i time myself coming in with them so they think they have a step to go till they can reach me, but when i step in it jams them up and i land before they get "in range", you dont need longer reach for this, its actually better as the shorter guy imo. If they are flailing instead of waiting to run in range, ill just counter them with straight shots and combo off it.
 
If you ever have the chance, run. You never know who you're F**king with on the street, and what they might be concealing.
 
First off, this isn't a 1980s action movie, no ones grabbing your shirt and then throwing a punch.

For my money, the easiest way to stop the charging haymakers is a double leg.
 
When he throws the haymaker extend your arm so that it blocks your chin and then clinch him and knee his balls until he drops
 
Kanka said:
When he throws the haymaker extend your arm so that it blocks your chin and then clinch him and knee his balls until he drops
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Sorry m8, it's been scientifically determined by posters on this forum that nut strikes have 0 effect.
 
for scenario A, a basic twist of the wrist (from the outside part of his hand) usually does the trick to get him off your shirt and control his hand + arm. Unless the guy is a tough brainless freak, you can control him easily from the wrist and make him go on the floor. You learn that in the first few lessons of Jiu Jitsu or Kyokushin Karate and it's very effective without hurting the opponent and risking trouble with the police. (I've used it against some drunken guy who could barely speak, didn't want to hurt him as he didn't seem like a real threat so I just controlled him to the floor from the wrist and then arm)

Just quickly looked on youtube to illustrate what I mean, this guy does similar ones here:


To be honest you shouldn't even have to think when someone grabs your shirt, you just instantly attack as a defence. Just practice that with a friend if you don't train that at your martial arts classes.
It's all about reaction/reflex, the guy goes for your shirt and before he even has a proper grip you're already attacking his throat or jaw with whatever is easier for your to throw at that specific moment.

For the scenario B of a charging guy, just use what you can to stop him in his rush, can be grabbing a chair and using it to push him away, or throwing whatever object you have near your hand to his face, or just run and scream for help if you don't think you'll be able to control him :) best way to avoid damage.
The kick to the groin is really underestimated. Throw a couple of kicks or knees there if one doesn't land properly the second one will ;)
 
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No rules fighting is so fucking boring. It's the box that we put ourselves in that makes things get creative and artful.

Think in basic principles. Use the opponents actions against them. He just reduced the likely offensive weapons by 50%, so exploit that. Or seeing as he is pulling you towards him, go towards him. For the second, jab with a good guard, if done correctly, no can defend.
 
The Karate Man said:
a) The more likely scenario is that when the guy grabs your shirt, his arm isn't going to be fully extended, so clinch up with him. And inexperienced fighter won't know how to neutralize the Thai Clinch, Double Underhooks, etc... Throw some knees to his face, take him down, do what you have to do and then get yourself out of the dangerous situation. If his arm is fully extended, grab that his hand and turn it over, while simultaneously hyper extending the elbow.

b) I found myself in that situation at a party one time. The thing about these guys, is that they have a tendency of gassing out very quickly, but it's dangerous to go toe-to-toe because it only takes one shot to get dropped. Gotta keep in mind that static guarding doesn't work in the streets, so you HAVE to rely on your footwork to maintain distance. When they rush in, you have to constantly sidestep. These guys are like trains when they rush in, so you have to move off the tracks instead of going backwards. When you go backwards, there is a very good chance that you will fall down (whether you trip, or get hit). Keep your distance with push kicks/front kicks, and fight dirty. Anything goes in the street. Worst case scenario, clinch up. Shoot a double leg on a guy if you have to.
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Really good tips here thanks a lot. and by the way yes guys im not a very experienced Muay Thai fighter bad wording on my part. what i meant was almost all of my two years of martial arts training was in Muay Thai and some was spent wrestling.
 
DoctorTaco said:
First off, this isn't a 1980s action movie, no ones grabbing your shirt and then throwing a punch.

For my money, the easiest way to stop the charging haymakers is a double leg.
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Thanks for the tips but surprisingly a lot of the fights that go in in my school or at parties and such guys love to use the hockey fight probably because im from canada and most of my friends/peers are hockey players.
 
bvidinha said:
Thanks for the tips but surprisingly a lot of the fights that go in in my school or at parties and such guys love to use the hockey fight probably because im from canada and most of my friends/peers are hockey players.
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Better tie down the jersey then
 
Defence against the hockey grab my favourite by far is Waki Gatame. The reason is it is very fast to execute, takes you away from the attackers punches or weapon hand and is a brutally effective fight finisher unless you are against a super tough guy who will fight past a broken arm. Here's a demo in Judo competition.

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Against someone who is swarming with haymakers it depends on the situation. If I know it is one on one I will cover with elbows forward guard, drop level and elbow spike them to the chest to enter the clinch. From there I will either throw them with a polish throw, duck under and take the back to choke after stepping on the back of the knee or start throwing knees all depending on the clinch I achieved i.e. double under to body lock or single underhook/overhook and collar/bicep tie. I don't like double overhooks. I then might hammerlock them from an underhook if I feel like being nice and restraining them.

If it's crowded situation where he might have friends or there is just a good chance of malignant bystanders I will teep or side step and long knee depending on the range I have and then low kick or straight right or just get out of there.
 
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