Deconstructing MMA Myths... [Part 5] - THE TRUE EVOLUTION OF MMA

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Today: [Multiple Eras]

THE TRUE EVOLUTION OF MMA.

This interview is interesting and demystifies many clichés..
I personally consider Matt Hume one of the most respectable minds in this game. He saw it all, did it all (fighter, coach, rule director, head official).



One has to understand what is truly at stake:

Essentially:
In ol´school Orgs/Events like BJJ vs Luta Livre [challenges], IVC or WVC, even 1st UFCs, u would see more GNP, even from strikers and BJJ dudes...

The game momentarily changed thanks to Pancrase, Rings and Pride 1st era [till the knee-to-a-downed-opponent rule, technically], due to specific rules/fight configuration, and a talented generation willing to create cross-training teams, and adapt their game to a new fight configuration, technically more demanding than Pride 2nd era or Modern UFC.

Technically, the lazy argument about fighters´ 'evolution' lacks serious analysis...

One should pay more attention to the evolution of:

1- The rules

2- Fight Configuration.

3- The fact that the Open Weight System had a great influence on the evolution of the skills/gameplans.

Note: "MMA boxing" indeed HAD to evolve [becoming less lousy],
with more quality sparring, more focus on footwork since less Open Weight fights.
The openweight fight configuration had an essential influence on the type of boxing required.
Technically, an undersized dude had no gain in workin on his jab if he had to fight at openweight...


A skill set is linked to a fight configuration established by an organization, with a view to promoting a certain type of 'entertainment' according to its core market.

This choice predetermines what kind of techniques will be effective or not under this fight configuration.

This goes beyond the mere consideration of who evolved or not, as a fighter.

The fight configuration evolves, and the fighters work or 'cease' to work on certain types of techniques.

For instance, some 'evolutionists' keep on claiming that BJJ is no longer effective...

It is forgetting that BJJ is not only about submissions...

Ground control has become the new paradigm these days.
Thus, these evolutionists dont understand the correlation btw BJJ & Ground control.

Moreover, even if you would only stick to the limited perception of BJJ as submissions, this is still about fight configuration:
Modern MMA [UFC´s in particular]´s fight configuration [time limit / short rounds] and judging criterias [Ground Control being the Main Paradigm, no reward for submission attempts] make it difficult to commit to particular submissions [leglocks/armbars]

As a current [BJJ-based] UFC fighter said:
“If I’m at the bottom, it’s a waste of time to throw up submissions. It’s better to get back on my feet."

Thus, The True Evolution of MMA is not about fighters´skills, but rather about Fight Configuration.

Matt_Hume_at_Evolve_MMA_in_Singapore.jpg


http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-24-carlson´s-silence.3879035/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-part-9-bjj-during-the-vale-tudo-era.3826197/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-13-khabib´s-eastern-european-career.3830345/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-14-mousasi-flukes.3836617/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-1-2.3844333/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-2-2.3844507/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-16-siamese-brothers-the-2-hw-goats.3851935/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-25-the-wild-wild-east.3886295/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...23-cross-training-in-mma´s-dark-ages.3874607/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-groovy-paradox.3893619/page-3#post-148236621
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...de-ow-gp-mezger-those-infamous-6-lbs.3899881/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-28-deaf-ears.3907767/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-penn-the-frontrunner.3925599/#post-149993595
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-30-mma´s-buster-douglas.3935185/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-fights-start-from-standing-position.3808087/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-5-the-true-evolution-of-mma.3807975/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...tion-of-submission-defence-grappling.3803333/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...3-the-evolution-of-werdum´s-striking.3831261/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-2-hunto´s-atomicbutt-drop.3735841/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-1-hoyce-his-gi-ufc-1.3734725/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...skill-set-mma-evolution-the-hws-case.3815393/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...hs-part-8-mma-cans-the-unsung-heroes.3822123/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-10-b4-after-usada.3826221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-11-fighters´evolution.3827221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...s-part-17-askren´s-undefeated-record.3855315/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...art-18-the-genesis-of-ufc-1´s-roster.3855847/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-20-judges-mma-ideology.3862173/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...ma-evolution-the-disorganized-ww-div.3873877/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...part-22-the-avenged-losses-narrative.3874257/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-ufc-5-requiem-for-the-vale-tudo-era.3947367/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...s-part-32-where´s-dat-suplex-monster.3954795/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-33-the-undisputed-goat.3961171/
 
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looks interesting, will read and watch when i have some time
 
Ground control is not BJJ specific art. Many folk style wrestlers and sambo practitioners have great ground control despite being termed in and outside of camp as BJJ rookies. Besides, it does reward submission attempts and strikes made off the bottom. Most notable example of Lawler winning against Hendricks who tried to lay and pray on him. The difference now is that the strikes off the back and submission attempts are valued, but a proper takedown by itself gains a lot of points, which then can get edged out by those submission attempts and strikes, but that rarely happens as it is difficult to have decent submission attempts off your back.
 
Ideanudge said:
Ground control is not BJJ specific art. Many folk style wrestlers and sambo practitioners have great ground control despite being termed in and outside of camp as BJJ rookies. Besides, it does reward submission attempts and strikes made off the bottom. Most notable example of Lawler winning against Hendricks who tried to lay and pray on him. The difference now is that the strikes off the back and submission attempts are valued, but a proper takedown by itself gains a lot of points, which then can get edged out by those submission attempts and strikes, but that rarely happens as it is difficult to have decent submission attempts off your back.
Click to expand...
tbh I dont know where you got this idea from the OP that "Ground control is [strictly] BJJ specific art."

Anyway, the recent ruleset [potential] evolution seems to have started by the end of 2016, with new directives, and you could see some effects 1st @ the Magny vs Riggs fight, since this is where Magny got the decision while Riggs simply L&Ped during the whole fight.

Letz see how it evolves...

On a sidenote, in Pride, Takada spent some 95% of the fight on top of Hoyce, L&Pin´, and Hoyce still got the decision (while doing very little tbh).
 
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Nice read, to be honest the ufc "mma" has nothing to do with mma and looks like a completely different sport and what evolved is how to eye poke and grab the cage and trash talk. But tito is a better talker the McGregor.
But yeah the fights before the unified "rules" are completely different also the strategies between ring and cage.
 
I love these threads keep them coming.

Gono btw you are a great asset
 
Joining the chorus that I love this series. Always intelligent & thought provoking. Keep up the great work!
 
I definitely see the rules affecting the evolution. The change in the definition of grounded, for example, will continue to affect the styles of takedowns that are preferred. It also will affect the risk reward ratio of trying to stand up from being taken down.

I do think some reevaluation of the ruleset would probably be a good thing at this point. I would like to see this handled from several points of view and not solely from fighter safety. I would like to see a rule addressing outstretched fingers being a foul after two warnings, or something equivalent. Rules should drive athletes to honest competition and not away from it.
 
Nueman43 said:
I definitely see the rules affecting the evolution. The change in the definition of grounded, for example, will continue to affect the styles of takedowns that are preferred. It also will affect the risk reward ratio of trying to stand up from being taken down.

I do think some reevaluation of the ruleset would probably be a good thing at this point. I would like to see this handled from several points of view and not solely from fighter safety. I would like to see a rule addressing outstretched fingers being a foul after two warnings, or something equivalent. Rules should drive athletes to honest competition and not away from it.
Click to expand...
I think they should have a strong look at the Wall & Stall thing, Fence Work is a pretty sad 'technical evolution'...

The Thibau vs Khabib [sad] Affair:

3 Rounds, 15 mns...4mn48 of pure Wall&Stall...
7 Wall&Stall situations, but only 2 Yamazaki´s interferences...
ONE complete Round lost, sadly... Nobody won that fight, tbh...

IMO, Modern MMA can´t afford this type of Fight Configuration, it only suits the NHB/Vale Tudo one, with no time limit, and 'bureaucratic' progression in the guard on against the fence/ropes...
 
gono btw said:
I think they should have a strong look at the Wall & Stall thing, Fence Work is a pretty sad 'technical evolution'...

The Thibau vs Khabib [sad] Affair:

3 Rounds, 15 mns...4mn48 of pure Wall&Stall...
7 Wall&Stall situations, but only 2 Yamazaki´s interferences...
ONE complete Round lost, sadly... Nobody won that fight, tbh...

IMO, Modern MMA can´t afford this type of Fight Configuration, it only suits the NHB/Vale Tudo one, with no time limit, and 'bureaucratic' progression in the guard on against the fence/ropes...
Click to expand...
I think the answer may be to reward throws heavily in decisions. This might shift fighters toward Judo, and that would make these exchanges more exciting, and less of a stalemate. Also, Greco might become a bit more common.

Machida made good use of Sumo in these situations, a la Thiago Silva, but that is more like a throw and a trip at the same time.
 
Nueman43 said:
I think the answer may be to reward throws heavily in decisions. This might shift fighters toward Judo, and that would make these exchanges more exciting, and less of a stalemate. Also, Greco might become a bit more common.

Machida made good use of Sumo in these situations, a la Thiago Silva, but that is more like a throw and a trip at the same time.
Click to expand...
or maybe reward submission attempts...

Modern MMA [UFC´s in particular]´s fight configuration and judging criterias [Ground Control being the Main Paradigm] make it difficult to commit to such submissions.

One UFC fighter once said: “If I’m at the bottom, it’s a waste of time to throw up submissions. It’s better to get back on my feet."

Pretty sad evolution...
 
gono btw said:
or maybe reward submission attempts...

Modern MMA [UFC´s in particular]´s fight configuration and judging criterias [Ground Control being the Main Paradigm] make it difficult to commit to such submissions.

One UFC fighter once said: “If I’m at the bottom, it’s a waste of time to throw up submissions. It’s better to get back on my feet."

Pretty sad evolution...
Click to expand...

Yeah, and I would like to see risky submissions rewarded more in points and possibly pay than mere control.

I miss ankle locks and knee bars.
 
Nueman43 said:
Yeah, and I would like to see risky submissions rewarded more in points and possibly pay than mere control.

I miss ankle locks and knee bars.
Click to expand...
Huge fan too, pretty sure camps prohibit these [risky] subs these days...
 
I think Shooto had the best solution to all of this: score guard and the clinch as a neutral position. Nobody gets points without doing something.
Problem solved.

I also think the combination of the UFC's ruleset (or configuration, whatever you wanna call it) and their fighter-rewardment program just means that the easiest path to victory is as many 1st-round finishes as you can possibly get. One would be bad enough, both makes it Really tough for a unique grain to sift through.
And most fighters are too dumb to learn how to submit people off their backs in a round. Hence so few submission experts like in the old days. Someone like a prime Aoki (with the cagesense he has nowadays) would thrive under that ruleset, then again Shinya's a smarter grappler than most people. Same thing with that Mexican guy with the mullet from the WEC.

It Does seem like the musclebound Mike Perry style has been Very prominent among successful fighters nowadays compared to just 5 years ago. It's not like the rules have changed that much... the way Dana White seeks- and rewards fighters sure has gotten a lot more focused, however.
 
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