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Today :[Russian MMA Scene]
The evolution of Khabib´s Eastern European Career, between 2008 & 2011:
The Magomedov Fight.
Myth 1: Khabib was protected & only fought cans.
Myth 2: He was dominant & 'undefeated'.
Note1: This thread is a reassessment of this one:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-13-khabib´s-eastern-european-career.3830345/
Note2: This thread can be seen as an extension of these ones:
CASE STUDY: The Magomedov Fight revisited :
Org.: Pankration Atrium Cup [One-Night Tournament > 3 Fights]
Date: Oct / 11 / 2008
My original assessment about this fight was based on an edited video [10mns]:
Now, I finally got access to the unedited version [24mns]:
Edited versions of ol´school fights can be rather problematic since some essential parts of a technical sequence can be omitted (see, for instance, the 2nd fight between Hickson & Rei Zulu, 1984).
Consequently, this fight has to be reassessed.
This is my original assessment:
The edited part:
> @ 7mn13 of the shorter version.
> @ 12mn25 of the longer one.
Original Technical Sequence: a Khabib´s [decent] left hook, that hardly rocked Magomedov...
...but you can see him touchin´his nose...
A few seconds later, while Khabib´s divin´to get a TD, it´s possible to see some blood pourin´on Khabib´s back.
Then, after a few knees by Khabib on the ground, the video is edited and we see them stood up.
What actually happened: the Ref. stopped the action, and called the doctor to check what seemed a cut (possibly a broken nose?).
The action was stopped durin´no less than 5 mns.
[Shout-out to @AimedWithV who translated the Russian speech durin´ these 5 mns]
Now, obviously, this element brings a new perspective here: even if we do acknowledge that the fight was pretty close & kindah difficult to score, such a visible damage is pretty hard to overlook.
Moreover, Pankration Atrium Cup´s [trigger-happy] stand-up rule still remains puzzlin´:
such a Fight Configuration in the 2000s looks like an anachronism.
The Russian NHB scene (IAFC & other Orgs) didnt have this type of Fight Configuration in the 1990s.
Pankration Atrium Cup reminds me of the Japanese Lumax Cup, in the 1990s, some kind of proto-MMA.
Consequently, it is quite possible that the Scorin´System might have been heavily influenced by the Combat Sambo´s universe, where, among other things, TDs are indeed rewarded.
If so, Khabib´s 5 TDs might have given him the nod (Magomedov stuffed 1 tho, and got 2 reversals), along with the most damagin´strike of the fight..
[See the Gifs in the 2nd & 3rd Posts of this Thread]
But... I still feel that:
> this fight was a pretty close one.
> Magomedov looked qualitatively more impressive:
More fluid & accurate strikin´on the feet, better footwork, more incisive GNP, less ´bureaucratic´transitions on the ground.
[See the Gifs in the 2nd & 3rd Posts of this Thread]
CONCLUSION:
> That was a pretty good test as a 2nd fight, for a rookie.
> The Judges´final decision seems more understandable now, with this unedited version.
But that was a close fight, indeed.
The evolution of Khabib´s Eastern European Career, between 2008 & 2011:
The Magomedov Fight.
Myth 1: Khabib was protected & only fought cans.
Myth 2: He was dominant & 'undefeated'.
Note1: This thread is a reassessment of this one:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-13-khabib´s-eastern-european-career.3830345/
Note2: This thread can be seen as an extension of these ones:
CASE STUDY: The Magomedov Fight revisited :
Org.: Pankration Atrium Cup [One-Night Tournament > 3 Fights]
Date: Oct / 11 / 2008
My original assessment about this fight was based on an edited video [10mns]:
Now, I finally got access to the unedited version [24mns]:
Edited versions of ol´school fights can be rather problematic since some essential parts of a technical sequence can be omitted (see, for instance, the 2nd fight between Hickson & Rei Zulu, 1984).
Consequently, this fight has to be reassessed.
This is my original assessment:
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-13-khabib´s-eastern-european-career.3830345/
2/ vs. Magomed Magomedov :
Magomedov was 3-6 between 2003 & 2014.
But...A striker [kickboxer] with legit submission arsenal: interesting skill set, reminds me a lil bit of a [less complete] Amar Suloev.
Unfortunately, obviously didnt get the right opportunities during his career.
Magomedov outclassed Khabib on the feet, but remained tentative because of the TD threat.
Khabib got easy single-leg TDs during this fight.
Magomedov showcased good body kicks, good jabz.
Khabib : brief armbar attempt, shaken off.
Magomedov : uneasy legit armbar attempt on a transition.
Khabib: brief side control, good knees,
Magomedov: could have gotten side control but not interested. Showcased good GNP
Note1: Fight Configuration:
The Referee [org: Pankration Atrium Cup] was a huge fan of the stand-up rule...(even when Khabib had side control... but seems Russian fighters were accustomed to this, since no whining from Khabib)
Note2: thinking about it, since Pankration Atrium Cup had such a trigger-happy stand-up rule (even when Khabib had side control), makes consequently lil sense to reward ground control, imo...
Verdict : uneasy fight to score, depends on your MMA 'ideology',
but imo Magomedov did more damage and had more legit submission attempts.
> In my books, it´s Khabib´s 1st loss.
2/ vs. Magomed Magomedov :
Magomedov was 3-6 between 2003 & 2014.
But...A striker [kickboxer] with legit submission arsenal: interesting skill set, reminds me a lil bit of a [less complete] Amar Suloev.
Unfortunately, obviously didnt get the right opportunities during his career.
Magomedov outclassed Khabib on the feet, but remained tentative because of the TD threat.
Khabib got easy single-leg TDs during this fight.
Magomedov showcased good body kicks, good jabz.
Khabib : brief armbar attempt, shaken off.
Magomedov : uneasy legit armbar attempt on a transition.
Khabib: brief side control, good knees,
Magomedov: could have gotten side control but not interested. Showcased good GNP
Note1: Fight Configuration:
The Referee [org: Pankration Atrium Cup] was a huge fan of the stand-up rule...(even when Khabib had side control... but seems Russian fighters were accustomed to this, since no whining from Khabib)
Note2: thinking about it, since Pankration Atrium Cup had such a trigger-happy stand-up rule (even when Khabib had side control), makes consequently lil sense to reward ground control, imo...
Verdict : uneasy fight to score, depends on your MMA 'ideology',
but imo Magomedov did more damage and had more legit submission attempts.
> In my books, it´s Khabib´s 1st loss.
The edited part:
> @ 7mn13 of the shorter version.
> @ 12mn25 of the longer one.
Original Technical Sequence: a Khabib´s [decent] left hook, that hardly rocked Magomedov...
...but you can see him touchin´his nose...
A few seconds later, while Khabib´s divin´to get a TD, it´s possible to see some blood pourin´on Khabib´s back.
Then, after a few knees by Khabib on the ground, the video is edited and we see them stood up.
What actually happened: the Ref. stopped the action, and called the doctor to check what seemed a cut (possibly a broken nose?).
The action was stopped durin´no less than 5 mns.
[Shout-out to @AimedWithV who translated the Russian speech durin´ these 5 mns]
Now, obviously, this element brings a new perspective here: even if we do acknowledge that the fight was pretty close & kindah difficult to score, such a visible damage is pretty hard to overlook.
Moreover, Pankration Atrium Cup´s [trigger-happy] stand-up rule still remains puzzlin´:
such a Fight Configuration in the 2000s looks like an anachronism.
The Russian NHB scene (IAFC & other Orgs) didnt have this type of Fight Configuration in the 1990s.
Pankration Atrium Cup reminds me of the Japanese Lumax Cup, in the 1990s, some kind of proto-MMA.
Consequently, it is quite possible that the Scorin´System might have been heavily influenced by the Combat Sambo´s universe, where, among other things, TDs are indeed rewarded.
If so, Khabib´s 5 TDs might have given him the nod (Magomedov stuffed 1 tho, and got 2 reversals), along with the most damagin´strike of the fight..
[See the Gifs in the 2nd & 3rd Posts of this Thread]
But... I still feel that:
> this fight was a pretty close one.
> Magomedov looked qualitatively more impressive:
More fluid & accurate strikin´on the feet, better footwork, more incisive GNP, less ´bureaucratic´transitions on the ground.
[See the Gifs in the 2nd & 3rd Posts of this Thread]
KHABIB:
MAGOMEDOV:
MAGOMEDOV:
CONCLUSION:
> That was a pretty good test as a 2nd fight, for a rookie.
> The Judges´final decision seems more understandable now, with this unedited version.
But that was a close fight, indeed.
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-24-carlson´s-silence.3879035/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-part-9-bjj-during-the-vale-tudo-era.3826197/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-13-khabib´s-eastern-european-career.3830345/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-14-mousasi-flukes.3836617/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-1-2.3844333/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-2-2.3844507/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-16-siamese-brothers-the-2-hw-goats.3851935/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-25-the-wild-wild-east.3886295/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-23-cross-training-in-mma´s-dark-ages.3874607/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-groovy-paradox.3893619/page-3#post-148236621
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...de-ow-gp-mezger-those-infamous-6-lbs.3899881/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-28-deaf-ears.3907767/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-penn-the-frontrunner.3925599/#post-149993595
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-30-mma´s-buster-douglas.3935185/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-fights-start-from-standing-position.3808087/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-5-the-true-evolution-of-mma.3807975/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...tion-of-submission-defence-grappling.3803333/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-3-the-evolution-of-werdum´s-striking.3831261/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-2-hunto´s-atomicbutt-drop.3735841/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-1-hoyce-his-gi-ufc-1.3734725/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...skill-set-mma-evolution-the-hws-case.3815393/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...hs-part-8-mma-cans-the-unsung-heroes.3822123/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-10-b4-after-usada.3826221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-11-fighters´evolution.3827221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-17-askren´s-undefeated-record.3855315/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-18-the-genesis-of-ufc-1´s-roster.3855847/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-20-judges-mma-ideology.3862173/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...ma-evolution-the-disorganized-ww-div.3873877/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...part-22-the-avenged-losses-narrative.3874257/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-ufc-5-requiem-for-the-vale-tudo-era.3947367/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-32-where´s-dat-suplex-monster.3954795/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-33-the-undisputed-goat.3961171/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-part-9-bjj-during-the-vale-tudo-era.3826197/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-13-khabib´s-eastern-european-career.3830345/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-14-mousasi-flukes.3836617/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-1-2.3844333/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-the-anatomy-of-a-fighter-khabib-2-2.3844507/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-16-siamese-brothers-the-2-hw-goats.3851935/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-25-the-wild-wild-east.3886295/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-23-cross-training-in-mma´s-dark-ages.3874607/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-groovy-paradox.3893619/page-3#post-148236621
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...de-ow-gp-mezger-those-infamous-6-lbs.3899881/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-28-deaf-ears.3907767/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-penn-the-frontrunner.3925599/#post-149993595
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-30-mma´s-buster-douglas.3935185/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-fights-start-from-standing-position.3808087/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-5-the-true-evolution-of-mma.3807975/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...tion-of-submission-defence-grappling.3803333/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-3-the-evolution-of-werdum´s-striking.3831261/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-2-hunto´s-atomicbutt-drop.3735841/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-1-hoyce-his-gi-ufc-1.3734725/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...skill-set-mma-evolution-the-hws-case.3815393/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...hs-part-8-mma-cans-the-unsung-heroes.3822123/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-10-b4-after-usada.3826221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-11-fighters´evolution.3827221/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-17-askren´s-undefeated-record.3855315/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-18-the-genesis-of-ufc-1´s-roster.3855847/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-20-judges-mma-ideology.3862173/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...ma-evolution-the-disorganized-ww-div.3873877/
http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...part-22-the-avenged-losses-narrative.3874257/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-ufc-5-requiem-for-the-vale-tudo-era.3947367/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-32-where´s-dat-suplex-monster.3954795/
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-33-the-undisputed-goat.3961171/
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