combinations punching inside-out, footwork issue..... HB Video.

[ssullivan80]

Since I commonly comment on other peoples vids, I think it only fair to be open to similar criticism/advice. So here ya go. I have been working more and more on fighting inside, which is really not where I am most comfortable..... I prefer "drive by" boxing, staying outside and using range. Either way, my footwork seems controlled and well balanced when throwing combos and working on the outside, or out-in moving laterally. That said, I been working on fighting on the perimeter and punching out of the corners and for some reason when I start trying to work a guy from the inside out to the end of my punches........ my footwork goes to shit! Will find some sparring clips later, but here are a couple examples I found doing bagwork. Thanks in advance for any insightful advice!

Shadow boxing, working on feints and lateral movement. This is where I feel balanced and footwork seems controlled. second vid on the heavy bag, working on coming in from range......... a couple of times in this video, when I get inside, footwork gets a little loose. But still it seems controlled because im still in that mid-range




This video best demonstrates the issue (particularly at the end). Footwork is controlled coming in, but when I start trying to throw combos while backing out, or working the bag from shorter shots out toward the end of my reach, footwork goes to shit! not sure why, maybe one of you can spot something I am not seeing!





:icon_idea

 

[orion78]

You look crisp from those vids and in regards to your footwork question, I can't say I totattly know what your going for, but based upon your hesitation in closer range and the fact that you say its new to you, I'd say this is natural. Your body/reflexs have not adjusted to the new distance and with practice in those ranges you will feel more natural again.

On a secondary note, towards the end of your second vid your left hand started to become a little lazy in placement and not in a optimal protective position after throwing the right and before throwing the right. Maybe you dont do this all the time, but you seem like you want useful critisisim.

 

[Sinister]

"This video is private."

That's what I keep getting on the last vid.

 

[ssullivan80]

"This video is private."

That's what I keep getting on the last vid.

oops. fixed

 

[Sinister]

You're just squaring up is all I see. And because you are, you're balance is compromised and you're rocking back onto your heels. Dee has the same problem a lot if you look close in that footage of him sparring with Anthony. In the middle of intense exchanges, even just with the bag, you're beginning to lead with your punches a bit. Always keep in mind that the closest thing to the bag/opponent should be your lead foot. The rear foot stays back. Your rear foot is a LITTLE back, but not enough. Look at Saddler's posture as he closes in:

Now, of course, if you intend to kick with that back leg it might not be optimal to have that much weight on it. But you can transition to the front foot if needs be relatively easily. Point is, the original stance (your outside stance) should be exactly the same as your inside stance, only slightly lower in elevation, and shorter punches. You're bringing that back foot in too close and ending up more square than you ought to be.

BTW - Not sure if we've ever gone over this, but foot positioning. If you're not using the L-stance, then there's only two acceptable foot positions: shoulder width, and slightly greater than shoulder width. They shouldn't be lined up as if balancing on a beam or something.

 

[ssullivan80]

You're just squaring up is all I see. And because you are, you're balance is compromised and you're rocking back onto your heels. Dee has the same problem a lot if you look close in that footage of him sparring with Anthony. In the middle of intense exchanges, even just with the bag, you're beginning to lead with your punches a bit. Always keep in mind that the closest thing to the bag/opponent should be your lead foot. The rear foot stays back. Your rear foot is a LITTLE back, but not enough. Look at Saddler's posture as he closes in:

Now, of course, if you intend to kick with that back leg it might not be optimal to have that much weight on it. But you can transition to the front foot if needs be relatively easily. Point is, the original stance (your outside stance) should be exactly the same as your inside stance, only slightly lower in elevation, and shorter punches. You're bringing that back foot in too close and ending up more square than you ought to be.

BTW - Not sure if we've ever gone over this, but foot positioning. If you're not using the L-stance, then there's only two acceptable foot positions: shoulder width, and slightly greater than shoulder width. They shouldn't be lined up as if balancing on a beam or something.

Thanks brotha! I see exactly what your saying. I have been doing far more boxing lately and I think one of the issues I have is that I am trying to adopt my kickboxing stance. Which is fine when I am outside, but as you mention, coming in I need sit down more in my stance. I also see what your saying about "leading with my punches", which I tend to do when I mix my hooks or UC low to high...... strangely enough it is not as pronounced a habit when I double off the same side as when i throwing left right or right left....... or at least it seems that way. Probably my favorite (and best IMO) combo to use inside is that left uc/shovel hook to the body, then left hook up top. I'll have to go back and watch Dee's tape again.

P.S: when ya get around to it, a thread on "acceptable foot positioning" would be fantastic. I use a shoulder width stance most the time, but tend to get a little too narrow off my pivots. Likely because I get my weight up a little too high...... to upright.

 

[Sinister]

Keeping posture in critical moments (when very close, or during pivots) is one of the more difficult things to instill. I'm only really just now getting it right more times than not. I'd also end up lined-up off my pivots, and always wondered why I felt uncomfortable punching after pivots, particularly with the rear hand. It was because the rear foot was not under the rear shoulder, so the punch was only correct from the waist up. Even if you go back through History, you'll always find more fighters who make this mistake than ones who do it correctly.

 

[orion78]

Oh now that I see the 3rd video I see exactly what you mean, yah to squared as Sinister said. Take his advice, he seems more vrsed in boxing technique/stance than I. Also it sounds about right

 

[lukewall]

First things first, relax and slow down on the bags. Slow it down and tighten up your technique before you go full speed on those bags. You definitely look more comfortable in the 2nd video where you work from 1-2 range.

Footwork wise, you have little habits I see just from that 40 sec clip that would drive me nuts if I was your trainer. You have a bad habit of throwing the 1-2 then taking a little half step straight back with your lead leg. You can get away with that with some guys, but the more experienced guys will try to follow that in and hit you when your feet are closer together. And if the half-step isn't bad enough, you're pulling straight back and not getting your head out of the middle. Learn to step off the line/step to the side off the 1-2 or how to roll off the 2 and step around the bag. You seem to be all offense on that bag, you need to think about defense too. Know where to be and how to get there after getting your punches off.

 

[Sinister]

Keep in-mind luke, he's working in a small space. He had to kick crap out of the way before even beginning. Ja!

 

[lukewall]

Keeping posture in critical moments (when very close, or during pivots) is one of the more difficult things to instill. I'm only really just now getting it right more times than not. I'd also end up lined-up off my pivots, and always wondered why I felt uncomfortable punching after pivots, particularly with the rear hand. It was because the rear foot was not under the rear shoulder, so the punch was only correct from the waist up. Even if you go back through History, you'll always find more fighters who make this mistake than ones who do it correctly.

I don't know why, but pivots are a completely lost art in boxing. I've always found the double end bag an invaluable tool for drilling pivots & counters. Real basic shit, like putting a jab on the bag, moving the head, pivoting off the upper body movement, and touching the bag with 2 punches. Sounds easy, but I can't believe how many fast and athletic kids I see have such a hard time with fundamental stuff like that. I think it's the subtle shift in weight from being on the front foot to pivot, making the pivot, and bringing the weight back to the back foot to fire a rear hand punch that gives people problems. And on top of that, i'm always seeing people pivot and pop their head up and get upright after they pivot. Once you see that, it's a matter of time before they're eating a left hook after the pivot. Its like a game of whack-a-mole.

And this goes back to some thread about the philly shell and how to deal with getting swarmed in that style. Shit, learn how to pivot.

 

[KyleInAction]

I don't know why

This probably explains some of it.

Illusory superiority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[db03892]

How long have you been boxing for?

 

[Sinister]

I don't know why, but pivots are a completely lost art in boxing. I've always found the double end bag an invaluable tool for drilling pivots & counters. Real basic shit, like putting a jab on the bag, moving the head, pivoting off the upper body movement, and touching the bag with 2 punches. Sounds easy, but I can't believe how many fast and athletic kids I see have such a hard time with fundamental stuff like that. I think it's the subtle shift in weight from being on the front foot to pivot, making the pivot, and bringing the weight back to the back foot to fire a rear hand punch that gives people problems. And on top of that, i'm always seeing people pivot and pop their head up and get upright after they pivot. Once you see that, it's a matter of time before they're eating a left hook after the pivot. Its like a game of whack-a-mole.

And this goes back to some thread about the philly shell and how to deal with getting swarmed in that style. Shit, learn how to pivot.

It's definitely a lost Art, IMO the culprit is the same as it always is, watered-down teaching being passed down by guys who don't have a real lineage to their knowledge in the Sport. So they teach front-foot heavy, imbalanced, reactive techniques. Makes me wonder if any of these guys could even spot if they have a fighter who has weak hip-flexors, and thus, cannot abduct their legs in order to properly drop elevation. And even if they did realize this, I'd then wonder if they knew what to do to fix it or compensate for it.

So it's not likely these sorts of trainers would even be able to get a guy into a proper position, let alone teach them how to properly pivot from it. Also, while I agree the double-end bag is good for pivoting exercises, theoretically it should be able to be practiced on any apparatus. Even simple line drills and shadowboxing should encompass proper movement. Just in case anyone wants to know what it should look like. Here's 47 seconds of brilliance:



The very last move is a pretty near flawless pivot, enabling the left hook, or the right if he wanted to.

 

[lukewall]

I got a chance to look at that last video sullivan. And along with the stuff others have already discussed, you gotta keep that upperbody on a swivel keep it out of the middle. There are times when you throw your combinations, then stand in front of the bag with your hands by your head. It's important to keep your head off center on the outside, but it's even more important to do so when you're on the inside. Keeping your head off the middle on the inside is what facilitates you ability to pivot & step around your opponent.

But first of all, make sure you address your issues with your stance on the inside. Your stance pretty much falls apart on the inside and you're standing there square with a huge target on your stomach.

 

[NeverMind]

Sinister, please do like what sullivan suggested and make a thread about foot positioning and please further explain what you described about pivoting and elevation in your post. The Sherdog world would be forever grateful. I have never really thought this deep about boxing before. It just goes to show that it truly is a sweet science afterall.

 

[663]

interesting vids, lack of room didnt help much I guess. going on the last video only (havent seen the 1st 2 vids) I didnt see you really incorporate your legs in the punches, as you know in close fighting is about being able to generate max power with small distances.

prob put some tape down around the bag where you want to pivot and where you want your back leg to end up, work out what combo you want to throw from that angle. I usually have 3 sets of pivot points and 2 combos for each pivot.

 

[nvs]

Im just giving respect cause of the music in the background.

 

[ssullivan80]

Footwork wise, you have little habits I see just from that 40 sec clip that would drive me nuts if I was your trainer. You have a bad habit of throwing the 1-2 then taking a little half step straight back with your lead leg. You can get away with that with some guys, but the more experienced guys will try to follow that in and hit you when your feet are closer together. And if the half-step isn't bad enough, you're pulling straight back and not getting your head out of the middle.

Funny you point that out, It does drive my boxing coach nuts and I get shit for it all the time. One the other hand, my kick-boxing coach praises that exact same step. That step is a bi-product of my kickboxing background, it is defensive posturing after a combo to avoid eating big leg kicks. After that 2, the first thing I do is get as light as I can as quick as I can on that lead leg, to avoid eating a kick. But your right, It has got me popped a time or two against experienced boxers. The fact that I am long and have reasonably quick hands helps, but as you note, guys with enough boxing savvy to pick up on that do give me trouble (and it has happened a few times, usually with against an athletic fighter that tucks n rolls is where i have the most trouble with that step). Conversely, in kick-boxing it is an advantageous habit that keeps me from eating big leg kicks behind my punch combos.

As for pulling straight back, I do. But that in-out style works well for me, I really am most effective when I am drawing my opponent in and 9 times out of 10 I am the taller and longer fighter........ so it suits me. Thanks for your insight brotha, it was helpful.

But first of all, make sure you address your issues with your stance on the inside. Your stance pretty much falls apart on the inside and you're standing there square with a huge target on your stomach.

Yep....... I rarely get hit with solid shots to the body from my 1-2 range, even when coming in-out. But I have got punished to the body in tight more often then id like. Definitely my biggest flaw in my boxing is my posturing in tight, I just have that bad habit of standing up and getting square , and I have paid for it many times. Again, It is one of those things that transitioning from kickboxing (where getting up tall and square was advantageous for clinch fighting inside) to boxing has been a real problem, it's habitual and really has taken a concerted effort to remind myself "im boxing" not kickboxing. One of those little habits that translates completely different from kickboxing to boxing.

 

[ssullivan80]

How long have you been boxing for?

Since I was a kid really, both brothers and my Dad were boxers and boxing enthusiasts. But I concentrated my training on kick-boxing more so than pure boxing. The last few years though I really have become more and more dedicated and interested in refining my boxing. It really is the most intricate and refined of all combat sports, in my opinion. You can never stop learning and there's always improvements to be made. Kinda like golf, you can never beat the game of golf....... it's impossible........ I see boxing the same way.

interesting vids, lack of room didnt help much I guess. going on the last video only (havent seen the 1st 2 vids) I didnt see you really incorporate your legs in the punches, as you know in close fighting is about being able to generate max power with small distances.

prob put some tape down around the bag where you want to pivot and where you want your back leg to end up, work out what combo you want to throw from that angle. I usually have 3 sets of pivot points and 2 combos for each pivot.

yep, my base inside definitely gets to high. I get plenty of snap/pop on my shots....... but I don't get "digging" and heavy power behind my body shots, which is what I really am working on developing! and your correct, it's because im not getting my "ass into it". up too high.

I like that tape idea, gonna give that a try. Thanks for the insight brotha, I appreciate it!

Im just giving respect cause of the music in the background.

Good music is a necessity for training!