Catch Wrestling vs. Jiu-Jitsu? (Gracie Breakdown)

[SBJ]

 

[Human Bass]

This gonna be good.

 

[Gambledub]

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

I am posting my vid because relevant, and I dont think GJJ has shown that monkey cover before to avoid the headlock like they do in this vid, if anyone has proof they have please tell me where to find the style of monkey cover to avoid the headlock....interesting because first one I show basically in my vid.....and that it comes from this Catch Wrestler from Russian Martial Arts

Now, I like a lot of what they do, and they are funny, I interviewed Rener before but camera man didnt hit record and I only got Audio

But at 22 min, Acting like Helio or Rener are so frail is funny, so muscular, lengthy, etc....Helio sure had a muscular body and did great at swimming competitions for such a weak frail guy that passed out all the time...........

Also, their showing to hook the arm T-rex style outside before then underhook monkey cover is very bad...u will not slow down a guys arm enough that has intent, also if you sense it at that time and are so aware you should simply underhook escape explode right away.

Now, I show a lot of escapes in my two Kesa Vids as well as Hammer lock vid.....
R they reading this forum of the kesa gatame escape thread....timing seems relevant.....

 

[Gambledub]

I am posting my vid because relevant, and I dont think GJJ has shown that monkey cover before to avoid the headlock like they do in this vid, if anyone has proof they have please tell me where to find the style of monkey cover to avoid the headlock....interesting because first one I show basically in my vid.....and that it comes from this Catch Wrestler from Russian Martial Arts

The frame where you put your hand on top of your head?

We learn this in our self defense curriculum.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Bummer, I usually love these. But honestly as hard as I tried, just seems disrespectful of them to mention CACC what, once or twice. Continue to disparage the move as a "big guy" move.

They arn't surprised there teachers didn't teach them this move due to there size? How about maybe your teachers didn't know this move?

I was hoping for some legit excitement about a move from another line of grappling they didn't know about.

Oh well.


And I guess Sak didn't open there eyes......... Lol!


Still love these guys tho!

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Bummer, I usually love these. But honestly as hard as I tried, just seems disrespectful of them to mention CACC what, once or twice. Continue to disparage the move as a "big guy" move.

They arn't surprised there teachers didn't teach them this move due to there size? How about maybe your teachers didn't know this move?

I was hoping for some legit excitement about a move from another line of grappling they didn't know about.

Oh well.

I thought the same... wasnt a very classy vid.

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

yes, I am legitimately asking if that cover has been already been being taught in GJJ Combatives or beginner programs or whatever, by that side of lineage, not if anyones particular bjj instructor has taught it to avoid hean n arm scarfhold kesa. And, if they have, did they just show on the ground or how to avoid it standing from the very beginning? and with more elbow brush by roll is better imo. In any of their books or vids were the GracieBrosTM showing it?

I have done so many styles I cant remember where where all the time, but I get that kind of understanding and see it much more in RMA, though arts like Bando I believe show it, I show it for mass fighting like if you are in a club or riot standing etc monkey covering to avoid punches, not just headlocks.

There is a lot of editing of the vid where it seems they may have went too far off or too dispariging etc. They also obviously way over play the weight diff. between Josh and Dean. If they were not taught this Judo/Catch/every wrestler 101 attack, then how full of the Judo and Catch curriculum did their founders actually learn?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I am posting my vid because relevant, and I dont think GJJ has shown that monkey cover before to avoid the headlock like they do in this vid, if anyone has proof they have please tell me where to find the style of monkey cover to avoid the headlock....interesting because first one I show basically in my vid.....and that it comes from this Catch Wrestler from Russian Martial Arts

Now, I like a lot of what they do, and they are funny, I interviewed Rener before but camera man didnt hit record and I only got Audio

But at 22 min, Acting like Helio or Rener are so frail is funny, so muscular, lengthy, etc....Helio sure had a muscular body and did great at swimming competitions for such a weak frail guy that passed out all the time...........

Also, their showing to hook the arm T-rex style outside before then underhook monkey cover is very bad...u will not slow down a guys arm enough that has intent, also if you sense it at that time and are so aware you should simply underhook escape explode right away.

Now, I show a lot of escapes in my two Kesa Vids as well as Hammer lock vid.....
R they reading this forum of the kesa gatame escape thread....timing seems relevant.....

the headlock escape you showed its a school headlock, not a kesa escape, and its cover with a shit ton o details in the combatives video, at least the one you showed in this video...

 

[Gambledub]

yes, I am legitimately asking if that cover has been already been being taught in GJJ Combatives or beginner programs or whatever, by that side of lineage, not if anyones particular bjj instructor has taught it to avoid hean n arm scarfhold kesa. And, if they have, did they just show on the ground or how to avoid it standing from the very beginning? and with more elbow brush by roll is better imo. In any of their books or vids were the GracieBrosTM showing it?

I have done so many styles I cant remember where where all the time, but I get that kind of understanding and see it much more in RMA, though arts like Bando I believe show it, I show it for mass fighting like if you are in a club or riot standing etc monkey covering to avoid punches, not just headlocks.

Well i'm Humaita, i'm pretty sure its part of the official curriculum, so I assume its shown through the other Gracie lineages. Yeah we learnt it on the ground, but I haven't seen it in any Gracie books or vids (not that I own many)

I don't think its that surprising really. BJJ came from Judo and competed against Catch Wrestlers a lot (as did Maeda) both styles seem to use the scarf hold a lot. Perhaps Maeda picked it up from Judo or Catch. Also it's not a hugely complicated movement, its a frame with hipping out. I'm sure it probably developed independently in several places and schools.

 

[Gambledub]

I have done so many styles I cant remember where where all the time, but I get that kind of understanding and see it much more in RMA, though arts like Bando I believe show it, I show it for mass fighting like if you are in a club or riot standing etc monkey covering to avoid punches, not just headlocks.

Are you thinking of Keysi Fighting Method? Bajiquan also uses a similar guard to attack with elbows.

 

[lechien]

The frame where you put your hand on top of your head?

We learn this in our self defense curriculum.

This is gold.
I never thought it off it that way.
I call it comb your hair move but never did it from that position .

 

[Deleted member 429137]

Are you thinking of Keysi Fighting Method? Bajiquan also uses a similar guard to attack with elbows.

Keysi, crazy monkey, maybe even 52 blocks... they all became popular in MMA fringes to various degrees around the same time, all involve that frame to ward off punches.

crazy monkey probably the most legit, think rampage used it . Maybe forest and tito, too. Memory is hazy.

 

[BJJChess]

I think their breakdown video was okay, I mean the usual stuff. They didn't try to belittle Catch wrestling, jiu jitsu simply doesn't like the moves that require a lot of strength. Headlock submission is kind of primitive technique. What bothers me more is they constantly talking about how Helio was fragile, and it was simply not true.

 

[Rod1]

This is gold.
I never thought it off it that way.
I call it comb your hair move but never did it from that position .

As with anything kesa related, it works because the kesa is shit.

If you are not wrapping your opponent arm around you like a Kasaya, then you are not doing a kesa, you are just kind of laying on top of your opponent.

From that point, any shit escape like the ones in the video, the 100 gracie self-defense style escapes and any random spazzer is going to work, because its not a kesa gatame.

 

[Rod1]

Which leads me to the main issue, when it comes to dealing with kesa gatame, most videos i see online from legit sources are in the realm of wiz c cool double leg takedown defense.

 

[Gambledub]

Which leads me to the main issue, when it comes to dealing with kesa gatame, most videos i see online from legit sources are in the realm of wiz c cool double leg takedown defense.

The reason I know that move is in our self defense cirriculum is because we had a new white belt* that came in a smashed everyone with kesa, so our instructor spent the next day of classes on prevention and escapes.

Spoiler

*Judo black belt

 

[GroundGameFan]

Bummer, I usually love these. But honestly as hard as I tried, just seems disrespectful of them to mention CACC what, once or twice. Continue to disparage the move as a "big guy" move.

They arn't surprised there teachers didn't teach them this move due to there size? How about maybe your teachers didn't know this move?

I was hoping for some legit excitement about a move from another line of grappling they didn't know about.

Oh well.


And I guess Sak didn't open there eyes......... Lol!


Still love these guys tho!

Damn this is exactly how I viewed this video as well. Just terribly done, and I always watch their breakdowns... Weak

 

[Ckaa]

Classic Gracie Bros vids...

The main problem with this match for me is I feel that Dean Lister was overconfident. He was not doing straight jiu-jitsu. He was not controlling the distance so much with his guard, he was looking to catch Dean on his passes. And it failed.

After being under this behemoth on bottom side control following the first pass, no doubt his energy and lucidity levels were really down. He should have made his guard harder to pass, he should have defend his guard harder.

That's what I don't like with sub only, it leads to bad strategy. What we have seen from Dean is the same with have seen from Glover vs Caio 2 (metamoris 1). You just don't let your guard get passed. Even if you have great sub-defense, this "keepitplayful" attitude is bad.

Josh is a great grappler, you don't let a great grappler go to side control. You're dead, even if you are Dean Lister.

Dean realised this a bit to late, with all the other passes, he turtled, didn't want to carry Josh's weight like after the first pass but it was a bit late, he was on the defensive.

I think Dean should have used a more mobile guard, like galvao use to do (even if Galvao didn't do it against Sonnen...). For me the Galvao vs Rustam match is a great exemple to how to deal with these powerful guys in nogi. Dean should have do this kind of game, rdlr all day, keeping the distance's management on control.

When dean used the rdlr he wasn't mobile enough.

 

[nooper]

Genuine question to Ryron and Rener: if GJJ is genuinely intended for everyone and is such a fantastic martial art to learn, then why does my local CTC have the type of prohibitive contract that forces me and others to look elsewhere? I await your PM. lol