hey guys ive been boxing for probably a little over 4 years right now, and switched gyms to more of a muay thai gym.. ive been ducking into roundhouse kicks, ducking under them sometimes, and i think really the kicks, and knees have been intimidating during sparring. I find it hard to throw my hands with the distance they try to keep and i really need some pointers because I'm getting frustrated.. not to toot my own horn but im a good boxer, just a shitty muay thai mofo.. Has anyone else experienced this transition ?
boxing to kickboxing transition
- Thread starter Drunkk
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Well Ive made the same transition from boxing to muay thai and the first times I sparred trying to get my hands on the other guy I failed terribly... kept getting teeped, roundhoused from kicking range and couldnt enter punching range effectively.... the only way to do that is to actually learn how to kick and how to teep and mix it up with your boxing
MightySparrow
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Many have made that transition so you'll soon get more qualified advice, I'm sure. In the meantime, here is what I think:
I've started working out a bit outside of regular training with a kickboxer friend of mine who has access to this basement gym. I help him refine punches and he shows me some kicks.
Now, the main difference between boxing and kickboxing so far, in my view, is distance. I'm an infighter by nature, so I like to close in and throw combos. In kickboxing I have found that I need to think more like an outfighter.
We don't spar, but rather just do drills where one guy chases and the other defends and counters. But I have found that I can't stay in the pocket for long because I'll just catch leg kicks. Maybe an experienced MT fighter/kickboxer can check those kicks and stay in range. But else I guess you'd either need to back out right after your attack or close in real tight. Only other "kickers" will be able to tell you the best tactics.
I'll tell you one thing though: I've never met a "kicker" (whether kickboxer or thai boxer or kyokushin karateka) who throws as good punches as us boxers. I think your punches will remain a key advantages of yours in MT as well, so learn from the more experienced guys how to set them up and I'm sure you'll be fine.
Something that will make the transition a lot easier will be to work more on defending kicks and knees than on throwing them. You already have refined weapons that you can use that will be way more effective than the new ones you're trying to add. Don't neglect learning how to kick, but don't emphasize it as much yet. The sooner you get comfortable defending all the new techniques that are being introduced to you, the sooner you'll be able to apply your boxing effectively.
Besides defense, the other most important thing for you to learn is how to close the distance. Defense will make this easier a whole lot easier because if you block or catch a kick you create an opportunity to get into boxing range. For example, if someone throws a leg kick at you and you check it, you can step forward quickly with a jab as they recover from the kick then let your hands go. Another way to make closing the distance easier is to back up so they move forward, then you step forward to meet them and get there twice as fast.
Believe it or not, learning to kick can also be useful when you wanna get close. I know I said to work more on defense than on offense, but it would be beneficial to develop one or two kicks that you can set up your hands with or set up with your hands. I would suggest a lead inside leg kick and a teep. Maybe a rear leg roundhouse too. The inside leg kick is a very low risk technique that is great for setting up the right hand and very useful for closing distance because it makes it hard for the opponent to move without putting you in an awkward position. The teep seems counterproductive because it pushes the opponent away, but it can be used to push them into corners where you can get in their face and unload. The rear leg roundhouse is great to throw once you have them backing up from your punches, but should be a lower priority for now because it's hard to set up your hands with it.
Basically, your goal is to manage the range by either being too far away to be kicked or too close to be kicked. It's not an easy transition and it's gonna take a lot of drilling and practice to get comfortable defending all these kicks and knees, but once you do it'll start getting a lot easier and a lot more fun.
Besides defense, the other most important thing for you to learn is how to close the distance. Defense will make this easier a whole lot easier because if you block or catch a kick you create an opportunity to get into boxing range. For example, if someone throws a leg kick at you and you check it, you can step forward quickly with a jab as they recover from the kick then let your hands go. Another way to make closing the distance easier is to back up so they move forward, then you step forward to meet them and get there twice as fast.
Believe it or not, learning to kick can also be useful when you wanna get close. I know I said to work more on defense than on offense, but it would be beneficial to develop one or two kicks that you can set up your hands with or set up with your hands. I would suggest a lead inside leg kick and a teep. Maybe a rear leg roundhouse too. The inside leg kick is a very low risk technique that is great for setting up the right hand and very useful for closing distance because it makes it hard for the opponent to move without putting you in an awkward position. The teep seems counterproductive because it pushes the opponent away, but it can be used to push them into corners where you can get in their face and unload. The rear leg roundhouse is great to throw once you have them backing up from your punches, but should be a lower priority for now because it's hard to set up your hands with it.
Basically, your goal is to manage the range by either being too far away to be kicked or too close to be kicked. It's not an easy transition and it's gonna take a lot of drilling and practice to get comfortable defending all these kicks and knees, but once you do it'll start getting a lot easier and a lot more fun.
The biggest difference is understanding kicking range particularly if your a boxer who wants to use his boxing. Just like you had to learn that in boxing the same is true of KB but the range is different. Watch Gil Melendez vs Bendo if you can. Towards the end Gil starts eating more leg kicks but in the first few rounds he does a good job controlling distance and relying on his boxing while still finishing combinations with leg kicks etc.
I find the best way to utilize your boxing well and nullify the teep/leg kick is to time them and enter punching range off there kicks. For example be out of range step forward, draw the teep. Then either catch or avoid. Throw your combo and angle out. I like to finish with body kicks too cause a lot of strong kickers will try and back up into there comfort zone when you get into punching range and you can often catch them unexpectedly backing up. just my two cents though
I find the best way to utilize your boxing well and nullify the teep/leg kick is to time them and enter punching range off there kicks. For example be out of range step forward, draw the teep. Then either catch or avoid. Throw your combo and angle out. I like to finish with body kicks too cause a lot of strong kickers will try and back up into there comfort zone when you get into punching range and you can often catch them unexpectedly backing up. just my two cents though
Good transition dude. If you want to go from where you are to having a chance..heres a couple of basics.
The first combo you learn is jab-jab-leg kick. Your jab should be good after 4 years of boxing. Work this combo on the bag for a week and at least you will be able to execute that in sparring. All of a sudden, youll be able to score on em and get your confidence going
Get your clinch basics down. Pummeling and side knees. That way you wont be so afraid of getting close.
Theres a lot more..but like all guys who come from boxing to muay thai, if you REALLY commit to muay thai, in 1 year you will have a blended style that will make you a handful.
The first combo you learn is jab-jab-leg kick. Your jab should be good after 4 years of boxing. Work this combo on the bag for a week and at least you will be able to execute that in sparring. All of a sudden, youll be able to score on em and get your confidence going
Get your clinch basics down. Pummeling and side knees. That way you wont be so afraid of getting close.
Theres a lot more..but like all guys who come from boxing to muay thai, if you REALLY commit to muay thai, in 1 year you will have a blended style that will make you a handful.
Don't limit yourself by coming in and trying to force yourself to be a boxer.
Your doing Muay Thai, so learn Muay Thai.
Train hard each aspect of your game, and see where that takes you. Who knows, maybe you have really good knees (or kicks, clinching etc et)c and that can be another asset to you.
The time to implement your strengths is during fights/competition, in training, work on your weaknesses. That means, learn how to kick. By only trying to work your hands offensively, you become one dimensional.
And here's the mandatory; Be Like Water blah blah blah Jeet Kune Do blah blah jack of all
TL;DR
Train Muay Thai, get good at Muay Thai, Use whatever style you come out with, Dont force it.
Your doing Muay Thai, so learn Muay Thai.
Train hard each aspect of your game, and see where that takes you. Who knows, maybe you have really good knees (or kicks, clinching etc et)c and that can be another asset to you.
The time to implement your strengths is during fights/competition, in training, work on your weaknesses. That means, learn how to kick. By only trying to work your hands offensively, you become one dimensional.
And here's the mandatory; Be Like Water blah blah blah Jeet Kune Do blah blah jack of all
TL;DR
Train Muay Thai, get good at Muay Thai, Use whatever style you come out with, Dont force it.
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As others have said stop ducking, you are going to walk your self into a KO via knee strikes. The hardest thing for boxers transitioning to MT is feet and hand placement. Wrapping their head around having a square stance is tough after programing a wide/bladed stance for years. Most of them are quick learners after having their legs eaten up for a round or two. Keep your hands up as you have to catch kicks, teeps, and knees.
Boxers have good hands, make use of them. Work on catching kicks, this is a game changer and something they usually pick up faster then most.
Boxers have good hands, make use of them. Work on catching kicks, this is a game changer and something they usually pick up faster then most.
Harukaze
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I agree with everything that everyone else had said, so I guess I'll add this: check out Mike Bernardo, he was the most successful boxer ever in K-1:
Watching him give you some ideas on how to weather the storm of weapons that your opponents may have that you currently lack. Note that Mike has very rudimentary kicks and clinch skills, but that he utilizes them effectively to control distance and keep his opponents in prime punching range. It's also noteworthy that he fought in an era of K-1 where there was much more leeway with clinching that there was in later days. Perhaps the only thing that his style might not have an answer for is the elbows present in Muay Thai but not K-1; indeed, it may be elbows that are most dangerous for those who rely on punching (consider Pornsane Sitmonchai, renowned for his hands and his low kick -- he constantly gets nailed with left lead elbows, it's like his Achilles heel).
Watching him give you some ideas on how to weather the storm of weapons that your opponents may have that you currently lack. Note that Mike has very rudimentary kicks and clinch skills, but that he utilizes them effectively to control distance and keep his opponents in prime punching range. It's also noteworthy that he fought in an era of K-1 where there was much more leeway with clinching that there was in later days. Perhaps the only thing that his style might not have an answer for is the elbows present in Muay Thai but not K-1; indeed, it may be elbows that are most dangerous for those who rely on punching (consider Pornsane Sitmonchai, renowned for his hands and his low kick -- he constantly gets nailed with left lead elbows, it's like his Achilles heel).
MightySparrow
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@Harukaze: Thanks for posting. That video was quite heartening. Like I speculated above, it seems like pushing the tempo and controlling the distance is key for a guy who is primarily a boxer.
I've felt somewhat unnerved by videos such as the Youtube classic below (sorry about just linking, don't know how to embed).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBG9PeImA10
I've felt somewhat unnerved by videos such as the Youtube classic below (sorry about just linking, don't know how to embed).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBG9PeImA10
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First things first- get inside your sparring partners head. I've got a few years of kick boxing under my belt. If my new sparring partner was new to MT but had 4 years boxing experience, I would get on my bicycle, stay to the outside and blast his legs and body with kicks.
With that in mind, be ready for kick happy opponent. With each kick they throw, be ready to step foward into your block and follow up with quick hands
With that in mind, be ready for kick happy opponent. With each kick they throw, be ready to step foward into your block and follow up with quick hands
Harukaze
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You're very welcome! It's just a real shame that Bernardo is no longer with us...
Anyway, I remember watching the K-1 matches that Arthur Williams and Ray Mercer had, along with Francois Botha -- I think their problem was that they felt that boxing alone would serve them well enough in a kickboxing match, so they didn't even bother training (much) under K-1 rules. The result is that they got destroyed. I remember their pre-fight interviews, Mercer said something along the lines of "I don't who [Musashi] is, I don't care who he is, I didn't watch his [fight] videos, I'm just gonna go in there and knock him out", while Botha said in regards to Mighty Mo, "I'll teach that boy how to box, show him what real boxing is." Just like how Williams in that video chose to wear boxing shoes even though that meant he would be forbidden to kick with them. It all came down to an attitude problem, essentially.
Mike Bernardo, on the other hand, figured out early in his kickboxing career that he had to supplement his formidable boxing with certain bare-minimum skills that are fundamental to the ruleset under which he was fighting, and thus he prospered in the sport.
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Why not spar as a beginner in muay thai would, and ignore your boxing advantages?
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Here's a good drill to start with. When shadowboxing, end each punch combination with a knee. The knee should be on the opposite side of your last punch so for example you throw a basic jab-straight-hook, add a right knee afterwards or after a jab straight, add a left knee. When you feel comfortable and the knees are fully integrated into your combinations, move on to using kicks instead of knees.
Try out Bas Rutten's kickboxing audio workout, it'll help a lot with this drill.
Try out Bas Rutten's kickboxing audio workout, it'll help a lot with this drill.
