BJJ tournament coming up, need keto help.

[dallas405]

Hey guys, so basically I injured my knee awhile back and during my 3 month layoff I pretty much went crazy eating all sorts of bad stuff and gained a lot of excess weight. I am doing a very low carb diet to get it off in time for the worlds which is a couple months away and should be no problem.

My main question has to do with the pan coming up in a couple of weeks. for the best performance should I kick myself out of ketosis and if so how far out should i start so my body readjusts and feels good on fight day or should i stay in ketosis since my body is adjusted? i appreciate any help guys and thanks in advance.

 

[DrFIGHT]

Hey guys, so basically I injured my knee awhile back and during my 3 month layoff I pretty much went crazy eating all sorts of bad stuff and gained a lot of excess weight. I am doing a very low carb diet to get it off in time for the worlds which is a couple months away and should be no problem.

My main question has to do with the pan coming up in a couple of weeks. for the best performance should I kick myself out of ketosis and if so how far out should i start so my body readjusts and feels good on fight day or should i stay in ketosis since my body is adjusted? i appreciate any help guys and thanks in advance.

What type of knee injury was it?

The best way to loose weight is (unsurprisingly) a low calorie diet (1500 - 2000 kcal) per day combined with at least 500 kcal of exercise per day according to various studies (I can give you the ref if you want). This will make you loose between 0.5 to 1 kg per week.

If your knee injury makes it difficult for you to run, then swimming is an excellent choice for cardio training to complement your jits training

About a week before the competition it is advisable to train with a low intensity and eat lots of carbohydrates, to maximize the glycogen stores in your muscles and ensure that you are fresh for the competition.

Really basics , so you probably know this already, but it might help

cheers and good luck for your competitions

 

[hardheart]

Hey guys, so basically I injured my knee awhile back and during my 3 month layoff I pretty much went crazy eating all sorts of bad stuff and gained a lot of excess weight. I am doing a very low carb diet to get it off in time for the worlds which is a couple months away and should be no problem.

My main question has to do with the pan coming up in a couple of weeks. for the best performance should I kick myself out of ketosis and if so how far out should i start so my body readjusts and feels good on fight day or should i stay in ketosis since my body is adjusted? i appreciate any help guys and thanks in advance.

Based on what the other people that train and compete have written here (as I don't myself) one of the worst things you can do from a competitive standpoint is make a major change to your diet or training shortly before a competition.

So, to answer your question, don't change your diet. If you're used to training and competing in ketosis, then stay that way.

 

[Nemesis48]

Ketogenic performance is superior to standard performance in endurance athletics and has an initial disadvantage in sprints leading up for about 15 minutes, and then becomes equivalent after that.

This assumes you are properly keto adapted,if you are not, keto is inferior to glucose-based nutrition in both categories. it takes 3-4 to properly keto adapt. You must consistently be in ketosis during this time.

This is the biggest mistake low carb people make - they think ketosis makes them weak when:
1. They aren't supplementing sodium properly
2. They haven't fully keto adapted
3. they may not be eating enough fat

If you do keto diet properly, the first paragraph is true.

Source:
http://www.amazon.com/Art-Science-Low-Carbohydrate-Performance/dp/0983490716

 

[anaconda]

being in keto and training jiujitsu WILL deter your performance. BJJ, esp in competition, will rely on lots of explosive, sprint like movements.

I've done keto diets to get ready for competition and I just have some carbs on the day of. It sucks because you are going to be experiementing, but you should be fine. What belt and weight class are you?

If you are going in the morning, have some toast with peanut butter and honey. Its light enough that it won't sit heavy, but enough carbs (esp with the honey) to replenish you and make you feel good.

 

[Pathogenic]

being in keto and training jiujitsu WILL deter your performance. BJJ, esp in competition, will rely on lots of explosive, sprint like movements.

This. Keto limits the ability of your body to explode repeatedly because your muscles run out of glycogen; a critical fuel source for high-intensity activity that is synthesized from the carbohydrates you consume. BJJ athletes need to rely on their ability to explode repeatedly throughout a match/roll. Attempting throws and takedowns, attempting subs, attempting quick passes, transitioning from different positions (side mount to mount, etc), escaping from detrimental positions, and scrambles all require some explosive effort, especially in nogi.

Skip the Pan Ams if you're 15 lbs or more away from your weight class, and think about creating a normal calorie deficit. Here's a thread that I made recently on the topic of designing a diet: http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f15/how-design-diet-2409159/

 

[dallas405]

I am just doing the unlimited weight class so i am not worried about making a particular weight for this one, my main focus is still getting my weight down before worlds in a couple of months which is why I am ok with pulling myself out of ketosis for a short time if need be for this tournament.
Anaconda- I am a purple belt in the and normally I am a heavyweight but will be doing the Ultra heavy. Last year at the Pan i closed out the adult blue superheavy with my teammate Jared Dopp. I am looking to do the same again this year in the purple belt.
Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Nemesis48]

Dallas: you can't jump in and out of ketosis. IT WILL TAKE 3-4 WEEKS TO KETO ADAPT FULLY.

if you don't give it this time, your performance will be inferior. that's a fact. Read the book I linked - it's the definitive volume on keto performance.

 

[ArteSuave17]

Based on what the other people that train and compete have written here (as I don't myself) one of the worst things you can do from a competitive standpoint is make a major change to your diet or training shortly before a competition.

So, to answer your question, don't change your diet. If you're used to training and competing in ketosis, then stay that way.

Agreed, if it is not broken don't fix it.

I remember competing in a naga and for some unusual reason eating something i normally would not of eaten as I am really disciplined with my nutrition, and I got queasy and felt like shit before during and after all my matches.

point is, dont change it

 

[mtruitt76]

Ketogenic performance is superior to standard performance in endurance athletics and has an initial disadvantage in sprints leading up for about 15 minutes, and then becomes equivalent after that.

Do you know what studies or tests this statement is based on?

 

[Nemesis48]

Do you know what studies or tests this statement is based on?

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Science-Low-Carbohydrate-Performance/dp/0983490716

 

[mtruitt76]

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Science-Low-Carbohydrate-Performance/dp/0983490716

I understand that the assertion comes from the book. What I am wondering is what are the studies or tests that the authors are rely on in making the claim.

 

[Pathogenic]

I understand that the assertion comes from the book. What I am wondering is what are the studies or tests that the authors are rely on in making the claim.

If it were superior for aerobic performance, then aerobic athletes would be eternally in ketosis, but they aren't. The only study I've seen where ketogenic dieting had better results than regular dieting is when they made a bunch of runners go keto for 4 weeks, and then, the day before the test race, they ate upwards of 1000g of carbs so that they could supercompensate glycogen stores. As you are well aware of, glycogen supercompensation makes you stronger and faster for longer than baseline. That's how the whole "train low, run high" thing got started. Training low all the time is fucking retarded, though, because you're sacrificing performance for a whole month. The best way for a runner to maximize performance, in my opinion, would be to deplete their glycogen stores a few days before the race, and carb up the day before the race. This way, they'll be able to train effectively for 3 weeks and 27 days, while still being superhuman for the race.

The only other study I saw was from Denmark, where they had a bunch of untrained people use a leg press to failure. No relevance at all to real life.

 

[anaconda]

This. Keto limits the ability of your body to explode repeatedly because your muscles run out of glycogen; a critical fuel source for high-intensity activity that is synthesized from the carbohydrates you consume. BJJ athletes need to rely on their ability to explode repeatedly throughout a match/roll. Attempting throws and takedowns, attempting subs, attempting quick passes, transitioning from different positions (side mount to mount, etc), escaping from detrimental positions, and scrambles all require some explosive effort, especially in nogi.

Skip the Pan Ams if you're 15 lbs or more away from your weight class, and think about creating a normal calorie deficit. Here's a thread that I made recently on the topic of designing a diet: http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f15/how-design-diet-2409159/

or just go up a weight class

 

[anaconda]

If it were superior for aerobic performance, then aerobic athletes would be eternally in ketosis, but they aren't. The only study I've seen where ketogenic dieting had better results than regular dieting is when they made a bunch of runners go keto for 4 weeks, and then, the day before the test race, they ate upwards of 1000g of carbs so that they could supercompensate glycogen stores. As you are well aware of, glycogen supercompensation makes you stronger and faster for longer than baseline. That's how the whole "train low, run high" thing got started. Training low all the time is fucking retarded, though, because you're sacrificing performance for a whole month. The best way for a runner to maximize performance, in my opinion, would be to deplete their glycogen stores a few days before the race, and carb up the day before the race. This way, they'll be able to train effectively for 3 weeks and 27 days, while still being superhuman for the race.

The only other study I saw was from Denmark, where they had a bunch of untrained people use a leg press to failure. No relevance at all to real life.

This is why I suggested to OP to get some starchy carbs before competition.

Glycogen depletion then replenishment gives much better results for me personally than just maintaining a diet. For a while I couldn't figure out why I would perform better competing after weight cuts compared to competitions where I was already on weight.

 

[anaconda]

I am just doing the unlimited weight class so i am not worried about making a particular weight for this one, my main focus is still getting my weight down before worlds in a couple of months which is why I am ok with pulling myself out of ketosis for a short time if need be for this tournament.
Anaconda- I am a purple belt in the and normally I am a heavyweight but will be doing the Ultra heavy. Last year at the Pan i closed out the adult blue superheavy with my teammate Jared Dopp. I am looking to do the same again this year in the purple belt.
Thanks for the help guys.

Awesome man, good luck!

If you are competing in the pans and dont have a problem with weight, I would eat a bunch of carbs (light carbs though, like toast) before the competition to replenish your glycogen stores. As I mentioned, my personal favorite is toast with a little peanut butter and a lot of honey on the day of the competition.

Since you're super pesado, you might not go until late in the day. You'll have to figure out how to schedule your meal before the comp.

 

[mtruitt76]

If it were superior for aerobic performance, then aerobic athletes would be eternally in ketosis, but they aren't. The only study I've seen where ketogenic dieting had better results than regular dieting is when they made a bunch of runners go keto for 4 weeks, and then, the day before the test race, they ate upwards of 1000g of carbs so that they could supercompensate glycogen stores. As you are well aware of, glycogen supercompensation makes you stronger and faster for longer than baseline. That's how the whole "train low, run high" thing got started. Training low all the time is fucking retarded, though, because you're sacrificing performance for a whole month. The best way for a runner to maximize performance, in my opinion, would be to deplete their glycogen stores a few days before the race, and carb up the day before the race. This way, they'll be able to train effectively for 3 weeks and 27 days, while still being superhuman for the race.

The only other study I saw was from Denmark, where they had a bunch of untrained people use a leg press to failure. No relevance at all to real life.

The protocols I have seen for the "train low, run high" thing involve incorporating a couple of glycogen depleted workouts in during the course of a week, which is much different than taking 3-4 weeks to become keto adapted and training and competing that way.

Saying that one's endurance performance would be superior while on a ketogenic diet is a bold statement and goes against to standard practice of super-compensating. I, personally, have not seen any studies or test supporting Nemesis's claim. I am not an endurance athlete though, so I haven't thoroughly researched the subject either. My gut reaction is that training is in such a manner is the same as your opinion, i.e retarded, but hey I am always willing to look at new info and accept that my current beliefs are wrong if the evidence is there.

For a BJJ competitor, I could not imagine doing low carb for an extended period of time. I have experimented with short bouts of low carb, i.e a week or so and after a couple of days my performance sucks, but after a refeed I feel like a beast the next couple of days. Anaconda and I have had some discussions on weight cutting protocols in the past and the depletion then replenishment strategy is something that I will probably be using in my next competition.