BEWARE - Mitt work:

[Sinister]

This is a Public Service Announcement kind of post because it's been something that has been irking my nerves for quite some time. This phenomenon is about how America tends to dilute and degrade excellent things that hit our shores. Boxing is no exception. While there are some fantastic American trainers, what I'm speaking of is people who come to America from other places and only teach 1/3 of what they themselves learned. I've seen "trainers" from as reputable places as Cuba, Puerto Rico, The Dominican Republic, England, former soviet Countries, all commit this same basic error. What they themselves learned were fantastic activities that made boxing fun AND taught them how to fight very well. This is how many of them BECAME decorated Amateurs, reputable Pros, and even former World Champions. But of course, when they become trainers and aren't making the big bucks, the pursuit of the dollar itself becomes important. This is where mitt work comes in.

If you have a trainer who focuses entirely on you hitting the mitts, or that's the largest part of their participation in your training, you should reconsider the trainer's relevance. But this is an EXCELLENT way to make a fighter feel co-dependent towards the trainer. "Oh man, I need my trainer, I need to get my mitt work in!!" I've seen trainers take a fighter for 20 minutes to an hour on the mitts, and pay LITTLE attention to anything else. Minor focus on bag work, minor focus on shadowboxing...Hell you'd be lucky to get a trainer who actively corrects your shadowboxing, no drilling. Then of course the utmost of lazy trainers will have you spar, spar, spar...that's the ONLY way you get better!! Right?

If you've ever heard these maxims and kind of felt like you were being bamboozled, you probably were. Mitt work and sparring are good tools, but if they're the ONLY and even if they're the PRIMARY tools, then the training is incomplete. Boxing is much more of a complex Sport than that and it's time it begun getting the rightful credit. I mean, you'd never see an NFL team only doing scrimmages and practicing running plays real-time. This does not teach players to play. If it were run like this, there would be a lot of minute details of making a great player ignored. But if the team did well anyway, the Coach would look like a genius. People would suddenly dismiss drills, conditioning, tactical practices, etc., and when some teams failed over and over again, people would wonder why. The players themselves would wonder why. It's not a credit to the Sport for trainers to only care that the fighter feel the trainer is NEEDED for one particular exercise where the relationship is a bit more hands-on, simply so their paycheck can keep coming in. If your training is good, then all of your fighters will at least be somewhat skillful and THAT will attract others.

So not to sound like I'm just blowing hot air, we're in the process of making a promotional video for Dadi and I's company. Have a look at some of the stuff we have fighters do that ISN'T mitts or sparring:

 

[Sinister]

Now, I realize those last few probably didn't look like a lot of "fun"...but you see the point. Dadi and I usually keep our fighters on a rotation of x amount of time conditioning, y amount of time with drills, z amount of time with sparring. I ONLY do mitt work when they're sparring. Some trainers try to condition their fighters ON the mitts. Why? Mitts should be for fine-tuning of technique. Some trainers try to teach technique using the mitts, however they miss seeing their fighter from the 3rd-person. This is what partner drills allow for, as well as for making a more cooperative environment. It's fun, and once they get familiar with what you want, they learn to self-correct, which makes mitt work easier. Add all these elements together, and the mitt work goes easier and actually serves as a good tool to clean up the last bits of flaws say, before a fight:



Note that what I'm working on with him are tiny details of polish. Proper arcs to the punches, timing, and where in the ring to throw them. As demonstrated in the above videos, the technique drilling and conditioning is over. Mitt work is refinement and of course sparring would be application. Now this is not just a concept known only to me. Let's take a look at Pedro Diaz:





Diaz is one of the few trainers who still puts his fighters on programs he would if they were in Cuba and going out for the National Team. Of course for the purpose of looking good in those HL videos, they use a lot of Diaz's mitt work (there's that co-dependency thing and selling the trainer angle again), but you can see all elements of training within the vids. Drills, conditioning, mitts, etc.

So keep an eye out for these things. Trainers whose training is actually going to help you. Not just make you feel like you "need" them to do something, like hold the mitts or watch you spar. But that you're learning and growing in your craft.

 

[Paradigm]

love how Vitor is on the thumbnail for the vid, even though he's in like 2 seconds of the vid.

great posts btw. what do you think of Spong's potential in boxing?

 

[Sinister]

I don't think of it, unless he becomes a Boxer. Everyone has potential, what they do with it is the question.

Also, wanted to add here's a couple of the older vids of the Vikings that were posted around here, just to re-iterate the focus on developing skilled fighters as opposed to feeling "needed."

 

[Babba]

This hit me right in the feels. 100% agree on this.

A lot of atheletes just do things because they're "boxing stuff" without thinking why they're doing it or understanding it properly. Mitts all the time just gives an unrealistic feel for boxing. What i like a lot is task sparring and shadow boxing vs. eachother and things of that nature, drill specific parts of boxing. And it's very important with someone who tells you what's what.

What I think is the most important thing of a trainer which most lack is the ability to communicate and explain stuff. That's 100% the most important thing in my opinion for a trainer to have.

btw ur guys looked a bit sloppy on the medicine ball work, but so do i so i'll stfu :icon_lol:

 

[Sinister]

They were tired. They did the medicine ball work AFTER the bad and weight work.

 

[Babba]

They were tired. They did the medicine ball work AFTER the bad and weight work.

Well that's standard! Sparring, bag work, (maybe some running) then medicine ball circut. never liked it, but i guess it's useful

 

[devante]

so your warning against trainers who dont teach the game as a who instead just teach the aspects that keep u connected to them or dependent on their presence even when they arent providing you w/knowledge.

your not saying the trainer isn't valuable, your saying the training they offer is lazy and not beneficial to the progression of the fighters ability to process/react/absorb info; nor is their training beneficial to the fighter developing the all round skills necessary to maximize their abilits

 

[Sinister]

Well that's standard! Sparring, bag work, (maybe some running) then medicine ball circut. never liked it, but i guess it's useful

Jaja, no no no. Remember we do things in chunks of time. When they do conditioning, it's conditioning. I don't make them spar and all that other stuff, THEN condition. By time I mean weeks. I don't do the "all in one day" thing.

They had done the bag drills and weight drills, then the medicine ball work. But I incorporate form in the medicine ball work. So once their stabilizer muscles are fatigued, asking for form is asking a lot. But when it comes time for them to hit the mitts, they can perform correctly for long periods of time.

so your warning against trainers who dont teach the game as a who instead just teach the aspects that keep u connected to them or dependent on their presence even when they arent providing you w/knowledge.

your not saying the trainer isn't valuable, your saying the training they offer is lazy and not beneficial to the progression of the fighters ability to process/react/absorb info; nor is their training beneficial to the fighter developing the all round skills necessary to maximize their abilits

Yes. But that's not to say that even those trainers are totally useless. Sometimes when a new person asks me about a trainer I make this statement which Dadi uttered to me about someone he saw when he was here in Vegas: "He is very good at taking someone who knows nothing and teaching them something." Those trainers have their places. They tend to be very good with simple tasks, getting big groups of people to throw 1-2's repeatedly...as an example. When they feel "needed" in that sort of way, they shine, and that's good for either hobbyists, or very good natural athletes who don't always benefit from someone trying to teach them something. When a trainer like that finds their ONE, that's why you eventually see them on HBO. They take a very good natural athlete who knows nothing, teach them something, then make them feel comfortable, wanted, befriended, and above all, cooperative.

 

[devante]

Jaja, no no no. Remember we do things in chunks of time. When they do conditioning, it's conditioning. I don't make them spar and all that other stuff, THEN condition. By time I mean weeks. I don't do the "all in one day" thing.

They had done the bag drills and weight drills, then the medicine ball work. But I incorporate form in the medicine ball work. So once their stabilizer muscles are fatigued, asking for form is asking a lot. But when it comes time for them to hit the mitts, they can perform correctly for long periods of time.



Yes. But that's not to say that even those trainers are totally useless. Sometimes when a new person asks me about a trainer I make this statement which Dadi uttered to me about someone he saw when he was here in Vegas: "He is very good at taking someone who knows nothing and teaching them something." Those trainers have their places. They tend to be very good with simple tasks, getting big groups of people to throw 1-2's repeatedly...as an example. When they feel "needed" in that sort of way, they shine, and that's good for either hobbyists, or very good natural athletes who don't always benefit from someone trying to teach them something. When a trainer like that finds their ONE, that's why you eventually see them on HBO. They take a very good natural athlete who knows nothing, teach them something, then make them feel comfortable, wanted, befriended, and above all, cooperative.

very interesting, sensible AND respectable way to asses and explain the value of a trainer...very impressed by this, as most trainers feel the need to downgrade or downplay trainers who aren't them or in their circle.

i am gonna remember this point, its one i shared; but i like how you put it.

 

[Sinister]

very interesting, sensible AND respectable way to asses and explain the value of a trainer...very impressed by this, as most trainers feel the need to downgrade or downplay trainers who aren't them or in their circle.

i am gonna remember this point, its one i shared; but i like how you put it.

Well, the way I see it, that's just plain the truth. Another example I can think of is us re-doing the back yard of my house. My lady has a friend who does landscape design, so she drew up some plans for us. But our landlady overshot herself, and it's going to cost A LOT to go the route of an elite Company who is going to apply all the trimmings and make it BEAUTIFUL. Plus that will take a long time. So instead she's looking at the cheaper option of having random schmo who does landscaping on the side put in some quick fixes. Our only issue is that we have no grass or anything else, and we just get a lot of dirt that tracks in our house because we have a dog. This is like having the problem of "I can't fight" or "I'm in horrible shape and what I want to do, is box." Do you go with option A and get the elite treatment? Or do you go with option B and what is sufficient. There's room for both, and neither is wrong. Frankly, for people who don't want to become World Champions (we don't need a Champion lawn, we don't own the house), what is sufficient is just fine.

It only becomes wrong when random schmo SAYS he offers the same services as the elite Company, and advertises he can do it in a week. Then he schemes some way to make himself consistently relevant by saying some kind of upkeep is necessary, making you dependent upon giving him your money. In other words, when trainers lie about themselves, and TELL you that you need them because of this or that, but neither of those things really have to do with how well you can fight...then it becomes a horrible practice.

 

[Marbig]

Thanks Sin! Definitely going to try conditioning videos 4, 6 and 2 at the gym today.

I agree with what you but what irks me even more is coaches telling people to pair up with one as "mitt holder" and another as the "boxer". I've been going to more scheduled classes for muay thai (no other option near me) and everytime the coach tells me to punch my partner's mitts I get super annoyed...especially since all the emphasis is on how to throw the combinations with no emphasis on how to actually hold the mitts :/

 

[Steve08]

Thanks for taking the time to write this Sinister, I learned a lot from reading. I found some of the drills your guys were working on rather interesting also, particularly the medicine ball stuff. Financial circumstance has forced me to train with Jack Dempsey's Championship Fighting, a heavy bag, and various kinds of general fitness equipment in my home, but whenever the time comes to seek out a new gym/trainer, I'll be keeping all this information in mind very closely. While my aspiration is in eventually becoming a pro MMA fighter, I wish I could find a trainer like you in any combative sport-- your boys are real lucky to have someone who truly Knows Boxing.

Just out of curiosity, what was the chap in Conditioning6 (the 5th video) working on?

 

[Sinister]

The overhead medicine ball toss has a lot of things going on in it at once. There's posture in keeping the back straight (which that particular kid has a hard time with), there's keeping the knees bent when you throw something, which is why you hear me tell him not to straighten his legs. A lot of fighters stand upright in the middle of a combination. This is an error. This exercise helps eliminate it. It also activates the posterior chain, that's what he's using to toss the ball, not his arms really. If he used JUST his arms and shoulders, he'd have fatigued VERY quickly within the first minute.

 

[Ignoramus]

Great videos, those partnered drills that I've seldom done at my boxing gyms are the bread and butter of my Muay Thai gym.

While we're on the topic of irksome boxing gyms, I hate that most boxing trainers still advocate strength and conditioning principles from the dark ages. Ie. Run 3-10 miles followed by a half hour of superfluous calisthenics with that "all in a day" mindset you mentioned.

I've even heard the old "stay away from weights because they make you slow/inflexible" gem a couple of times.

You mentioned doing things in chunks of time, which reminds me of the S&C principle of periodization: Focus on certain aspects at different phases. How would you as a coach employ this method to an entire class with students at different levels? Do you work what is needed with each student, or do you take the class through the same curriculum, so to speak? Or is it a combination of both?

 

[Sinister]

Well, that's the thing. I don't do "classes." I know you see 4 guys in the one clip and maybe eventually it would be able to be called a "class"...but my methods are highly individualized. The only things they do the same are the general exercises and even then, they're all trying to accomplish different things within those exercises.

 

[Cyclone Mike]

should have used the footage of daijon and that asian kid doing the inside drill. it's spirited and fun.

 

[Sinister]

I didn't want to frighten anyone from the intensity.

 

[Sinister]

Here's another exercise we do that ISN'T mitt work. This was taken today, normally I have them move at a slower pace but two of them are fighting tomorrow hopefully, so I wanted them going fast to assure their timing is sharpened and their control is good:

 

[Ignoramus]

^^^
Reminds me of my Muay Thai coach's idea of "playing."

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"Love together, nothing hurt." Haha