Best Throws From A High Collar Grip (Judo)

[Deep Triangle]

Hi all,

Just for a little background, I've been training in Judo for about five months (I am an orange belt) and have previous BJJ experience (blue belt).

I've been coming across the same problem in Randori for a while now; once I establish a high collar grip, I can't get the throw. Every time I try and turn in for Koshi Guruma or Harai Goshi my opponent blocks my right arm with his left arm. I know that the high collar grip is very dominant (I can control Uke's movement and break his posture), but I get blocked every time I go for a throw.

Any advice on what throws will allow me to make better use of my dominant grip and stop Uke from blocking my arm?

Thanks in advance,
Deep Triangle

 

[Chungungo]

As yellow belt it is not in your interest to be using a high collar grip. For your own long term development you should be using a normal collar grip.

This is because you wont have the grip strength to use the HCG properly and you wont learn vital skills like tsurikomi, which is the core for breaking balance for a whole host of throws.


He can only block your right arm if you aren't doing the HCG properly.

The proper HCG has the elbow down and the forearm in full and firm contact with uke's chest

To do this, maintain it and then break balance properly requires a very strong grip. Unless you come from some kind of power lifting or strongman background you more than likely wont be able to do it.

You're doing the beginner version of the HCG with the arm outstretched and most likely locked at the elbow. The reason your uke is able to anticipate your attack and block it each time is because maintaining your current grip can only be done by being very stiff with your lapel arm.

As soon as you want to try and attack you have to relax this arm before you launch your attack. This is very easily picked up by your uke and is basically the equivalent of sending them an e-mail informing them you're going to try a throw in a second.

Changing or adding a technique will not solve your problem because your problem is that you're doing something you're not ready to do and because you're not ready to do it you're doing it wrong.

Harsh, but unfortunately true.

Old thread but is good information, I was doing this mistake with my high collar grip.

 

[KentPeters]

For judo -> Uchi Mata(Quick pressure down and shoot your uchi mata under as they come back up) ... For BJJ -> High collar grip regularly exposes your back so if I do it I'm preparing a quick scramble to recompose upon landing ... I used a high collar grip harai in this match and almost got my back taken (ref get in the way during the throw but you can see abit) ... Kent Peters vs. Tristan Johnson (ZombieProof Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Sydney, Nova Scotia) - YouTube

 

[QingTian]

Not sure if I agree with that post. A HCG is a power grip, yes, but you don't need to be abnormally strong for it to work (unless you are going against someone abnormally strong). Also being stiff is only one of a host of likely issues that lets uke predict the attack. You don't need to relax before attacking either, and in fact is a sign of an incorrect entry as you do not pull before entering. Lastly, the elbow down is more important for blocking uke from getting close.

 

[Deep Triangle]

Thanks for the quick reply Kent. I'll be sure to try that set up for the Uchi Mata at training tommorow.

I'll report back and tell you how it went.

 

[peregrine]

As yellow belt it is not in your interest to be using a high collar grip. For your own long term development you should be using a normal collar grip.

This is because you wont have the grip strength to use the HCG properly and you wont learn vital skills like tsurikomi, which is the core for breaking balance for a whole host of throws.


He can only block your right arm if you aren't doing the HCG properly.

The proper HCG has the elbow down and the forearm in full and firm contact with uke's chest

To do this, maintain it and then break balance properly requires a very strong grip. Unless you come from some kind of power lifting or strongman background you more than likely wont be able to do it.

You're doing the beginner version of the HCG with the arm outstretched and most likely locked at the elbow. The reason your uke is able to anticipate your attack and block it each time is because maintaining your current grip can only be done by being very stiff with your lapel arm.

As soon as you want to try and attack you have to relax this arm before you launch your attack. This is very easily picked up by your uke and is basically the equivalent of sending them an e-mail informing them you're going to try a throw in a second.

Changing or adding a technique will not solve your problem because your problem is that you're doing something you're not ready to do and because you're not ready to do it you're doing it wrong.

Harsh, but unfortunately true.

I don't agree with this.
The picture imo is even wrong. (Edit' Sorry JP... ^, you guys would kill me, but I still don't like the pic) You do not need to have a huge strength advantage to make high grip work.

Imo you need to crunch uke and drag him back.
The synergistic effects of the high grip, crunching him down and dragging him will force him to react.

Like Einarr I like ashi waza with the high grip.

To the op I can't believe you are orange belt in 5months. Did you go white》yellow》orange?

 

[Kincaid]

I actually learned Uchi Mata in a similar way and it's one of the few throws I nail somewhat regularly, when I remember to drive through.

 

[Darkslide632]

I don't agree with this.
The picture imo is even wrong. (Edit' Sorry JP... ^, you guys would kill me, but I still don't like the pic) You do not need to have a huge strength advantage to make high grip work.

Imo you need to crunch uke and drag him back.
The synergistic effects of the high grip, crunching him down and dragging him will force him to react.

Like Einarr I like ashi waza with the high grip.

To the op I can't believe you are orange belt in 5months. Did you go white》yellow》orange?

The picture is wrong? How so? That picture is exactly what you should be doing with your HCG.

Someone is wrong here, but it isn't JudokaUK or Jimmy Pedro.

 

[Uchi Mata]

The trick to using high collar is to not let them get the inside grip, and to break them down as soon as you get it. So, as soon as you establish the grip, draw your elbow in towards yourself to pull them down and break their posture. Uchi mata, harai goshi, and osoto gari are all very good throws from here, though as mentioned watch your back because it is easy to get your back taken if you don't hit a throw perfectly.

 

[Chungungo]

Not sure if I agree with that post. A HCG is a power grip, yes, but you don't need to be abnormally strong for it to work (unless you are going against someone abnormally strong). Also being stiff is only one of a host of likely issues that lets uke predict the attack. You don't need to relax before attacking either, and in fact is a sign of an incorrect entry as you do not pull before entering. Lastly, the elbow down is more important for blocking uke from getting close.

I guess both extremes are wrong, super stiff before pulling will make the pull weaker and with relaxed I don´t think they mean inactive, just relaxed before pulling to not waste energy ...

 

[ChainFlow]

uchi mata
harai goshi
osoto gari
koshi guruma
sasae tsurikomi ashi

for starters

 

[peregrine]

The picture is wrong? How so? That picture is exactly what you should be doing with your HCG.

Someone is wrong here, but it isn't JudokaUK or Jimmy Pedro.

What I disagree with JudokaUK is
"To do it, to maintain it, to break balance properly, requires a very strong grip. Unless you come from of powerlifting or strongman background you are more than likely not able to do it."
Darkslide do you need a strongman background to do high grip?

My Judo is horrible. So take it for free.
imo you don't need to come from a powerlifting or strongman background to do it. he should be crunched more. Initially that pic is how the grips starts, but after movement not so. Ukes face ideally doesn't stay there. What that pic does not show is pressure and energy being applied by tori and ukes likely reactions of pressure, energy and movement. There are also variations on high grip so that could be the issue. I've heard it called c5 and t grip as well. Likely associating it to the c-5vertebrae and location in the spinal column.


It's not Jimmy Pedro, I do not know who it is. Anyone know? I was guessing it was someone wearing his jacket, as it says USA on it and Pedro.

I could be wrong so other Judoka blow me up.

 

[JudokaUK]

Hi all,

Just for a little background, I've been training in Judo for about five months (I am an orange belt) and have previous BJJ experience (blue belt).

As yellow belt it is not in your interest to be using a high collar grip. For your own long term development you should be using a normal collar grip.

This is because you wont have the grip strength to use the HCG properly and you wont learn vital skills like tsurikomi, which is the core for breaking balance for a whole host of throws.

I've been coming across the same problem in Randori for a while now; once I establish a high collar grip, I can't get the throw. Every time I try and turn in for Koshi Guruma or Harai Goshi my opponent blocks my right arm with his left arm. I know that the high collar grip is very dominant (I can control Uke's movement and break his posture), but I get blocked every time I go for a throw.

He can only block your right arm if you aren't doing the HCG properly.

The proper HCG has the elbow down and the forearm in full and firm contact with uke's chest

To do this, maintain it and then break balance properly requires a very strong grip. Unless you come from some kind of power lifting or strongman background you more than likely wont be able to do it.

You're doing the beginner version of the HCG with the arm outstretched and most likely locked at the elbow. The reason your uke is able to anticipate your attack and block it each time is because maintaining your current grip can only be done by being very stiff with your lapel arm.

As soon as you want to try and attack you have to relax this arm before you launch your attack. This is very easily picked up by your uke and is basically the equivalent of sending them an e-mail informing them you're going to try a throw in a second.

Changing or adding a technique will not solve your problem because your problem is that you're doing something you're not ready to do and because you're not ready to do it you're doing it wrong.

Harsh, but unfortunately true.

 

[Darkslide632]

If that's what you disagree with him about, I'm alright with that. I don't think you need a super strong grip. I also don't think you need to crush anyone if that's not how you're playing. I don't crush people with my HCG, which is my preferred grip.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that picture. The grip is exactly how it should be.

 

[Darkslide632]

Judoka UK stole my comment, which is that you're doing yourself a disservice.

 

[futang17]

not saying it's impossible but uchi mata after 5 months of judo is like working the berimbolo after your first white belt strip. you're better off learning the basic entry for o goshi/koshi guruma

 

[Einarr]

I may just be weird but I use the high collar grip mainly for ashi waza techniques. For most throws I'd rather have the standard sleeve and opposite lapel grip, the belt grip, or the overhook/lapel and sleeve grip (generally from somehow trying to take a belt grip on me).

 

[Deep Triangle]

Thanks for the input guys.

I just got back from training (it was all Randori) and was surprised how successful I was.

I was having lots of success with Uchi Mata, Uchi Mata in combination with Ouchi Gari, and Uchi Mata to an ankle pick as shown in this video: Chael Sonnen: Ankle Pick - YouTube

I did the ankle pick the same way as shown in the video but with the right arm over Uke's back and grabbing his gi instead of with the underhook. I used this combination to throw one of our brown belts a couple of times (Chael Sonnen FTW).