Benny Urquidez vs Royce Gracie

[gevoudane]

To bad this fight never happened. I think Benny would have had a great chance of winning.

This vedeo from 1983 already shows Benny has his judo down.

 

[eiyuu]

Can't see the video here at work, but I know that in preparation for the fight, Benny did a ton of training with Judo Gene LeBell to get his ground game down.

After that, the challenge suddenly disappeared.

 

[ostlerrage]

Gracie got disrespected massively in the days before the ufc. No one believed he was for real and every karekata believed they would have lit him up standing and ko'd him.
They were wrong and Benny would have gotten choked for sure.

 

[gevoudane]

Benny knew who the Gracies were and knew how to fight on the ground. Benny was a lot more than just a karateka. He won a few of his WSOM fights from throws and ground control.

Gracie got disrespected massively in the days before the ufc. No one believed he was for real and every karekata believed they would have lit him up standing and ko'd him.
They were wrong and Benny would have gotten choked for sure.

 

[Phronimos]

My understanding of this very old story is that Benny was full of crap. When the Gracie challenge was in full swing, the challenge was mentioned to Benny in public, and he hadn't heard of the Gracies, so he said that he would do it. Then he found out that the Gracies were the real deal, so he ducked them for years. They would have destroyed him.

 

[jitzmonkey]

People seem to like to sh-t on Royce Gracie now that the sport has evolved. Remember that he easily beat Remco Pardoel a Dutch/European Judo Champion with some bjj experience. I hear dutch kick boxing is pretty good, too.

 

[Azam]

Gracie got disrespected massively in the days before the ufc. No one believed he was for real and every karekata believed they would have lit him up standing and ko'd him.
They were wrong and Benny would have gotten choked for sure.

Oh yeah - because Gerard Gordeau was the most elite karateka out there.....


Benny would have had a great chance - just like any karateka with a strong judo background & real fighting experience - there was a tonne of them during UFC 1.

Funny how we saw no top judoka, no elite karateka, no elite Muay Thai fighters - people really need to grow up and see what UFC 1 for what it was - showcasing BJJ - great martial arts landmark that changed things without a doubt but no indicator of what the best martial art was.

 

[felmmando]

Funny how we saw no top judoka, no elite karateka, no elite Muay Thai fighters -

Minoki Ichihara

 

[eiyuu]

Oh yeah - because Gerard Gordeau was the most elite karateka out there.....


Benny would have had a great chance - just like any karateka with a strong judo background & real fighting experience - there was a tonne of them during UFC 1.

Funny how we saw no top judoka, no elite karateka, no elite Muay Thai fighters - people really need to grow up and see what UFC 1 for what it was - showcasing BJJ - great martial arts landmark that changed things without a doubt but no indicator of what the best martial art was.

UFC I, yes, it was a display for Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

UFC II however, added exactly what you were looking for--Remco Pardoel (European Judo Champion), Orlando Wiet (while not super elite in Muay Thai, he did hold a Muay Thai title) and Minoki Ichihara (a well respected Karate champion.)

And Royce Gracie still won.

 

[KantoTerror]

Lot's of Judoka's and wrestlers that would've beaten Royce that era. that was the time that UFC was pretty much known as underground fighting and not everyone would like to associate with it. Remember that vitor came later and he was already a Jiu Jitsu practitioner with a much advanced striking. Randy Couture fought in the UFC in a not so young age either so these fighters got invited later on but were already very well equiped to face royce.

 

[BLIND]

Benny the jet was a beast. For sure there's a chance he could've won. There's a chance he could get choked too, but that's why they fight. Too bad, benny's style would've been fun in the ufc back in the day

 

[Akula77]

I'm sure Benny whould have given Royce a run for hs money, provided that he entered the cage with one glove and one bare hand of course.

 

[NikLuk]

UFC I, yes, it was a display for Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

UFC II however, added exactly what you were looking for--Remco Pardoel (European Judo Champion), Orlando Wiet (while not super elite in Muay Thai, he did hold a Muay Thai title) and Minoki Ichihara (a well respected Karate champion.)

And Royce Gracie still won.

When was Pardoel a European champ in judo? As I can see he was only a Junior National Judo Champion in the NED.

 

[Azam]

UFC I, yes, it was a display for Gracie Jiu Jitsu.

UFC II however, added exactly what you were looking for--Remco Pardoel (European Judo Champion), Orlando Wiet (while not super elite in Muay Thai, he did hold a Muay Thai title) and Minoki Ichihara (a well respected Karate champion.)

And Royce Gracie still won.

You have to judge fighters calibre by looking at their peers.

Remco Pardoel while a great judoka, all props to him - he was not of the same calibre as Royce Gracie, let's be honest. He was a national Junior Judo champion of the Netherlands.

Orlando Wiet while a great fighter, props to him again - he was not an elite Muay Thai fighter or of similar calibre to Royce Gracie, nor did he hold any respected Muay Thai title - you have to judge him by the quality of his peers.

Minoki Ichihara was a daido juku kudo national champion. Daido Juku in the 90's was extremely small & was a very small organisation. He wasn't a well respected karate champion - unless you consider fighting in a relatively small unknown karate organisation (at the time) - well respected - daido juku wasn't what it is now back in the 90's. I mean I think it prudent to point out that he only fought once professionally and that was against Royce Gracie - which he lost. I mean in comparison to his peers he wasn't a great karate champion many of whom were professional fighters.


I think a lot of people overlook or simply don't want to acknowledge that the early UFC's were a showcase for GJJ and later mixed martial arts. I think a lot of it comes down to the unfamiliarity of martial arts outside of their own especially back in the 90's.

Minoki Ichihara was a relatively unknown national kudo champ in the Karate world and his first fight professionally was the one he lost against Royce, Orlando Wiet was not a great Muay Thai fighter - if the early UFC's had a guy like Kiatsongrit or Sakmongkol than I'd happily agree with you and Remco Pardoel was only a junior national champion of Judo who'd never had a fight.

100% the early UFC's were historic landmarks in the history of martial arts and changed things but let's see them for what they were a showcase of GJJ that later developed into a showcase of different styles. They were not a showcase of the best martial art or the best fighter on the planet because the vast majority of best fighters on the planet at the time did not compete in any of the early UFC's and more importantly most martial arts were under represented, not represented at all or simply didn't have the same calibre of individual competing that other styles had. While Royce definitely wasn't the greastest GJJ practitioner at the time - he was elite - anyone who knows about Daido Juku, 90's kickboxing/Judo cannot say the same for all the guys you mentioned. I mean it's laughable to suggest they were elite the same way Royce was.

 

[Azam]

When was Pardoel a European champ in judo? As I can see he was only a Junior National Judo Champion in the NED.

Somehow that makes him the same calibre as Royce who was not the best GJJ practitioner but easily elite & right up there. The same can't be said for all those three that were mentioned especially Ichihara.

Ichihara who was a Karate champ in small unknown org with no professional fights somehow makes him the same calibre as Royce. This in an era where many great professional karate fighters like Andy Hug & co were competing.

Wiet who was not a champ in any respected MT/kickboxing org somehow makes him the same calibre as Royce. This in an era where many great kb/MT fighters like Sakmongkol, Kiatsongrit & co were out there.

I think there is no doubt about BJJ as a great art or Royce as a great BJJ practitioner/fighter but let's not pretend that it was anything other than a contrived showcase of GJJ otherwise you'd have similar calibre opponents to Royce & all arts represented. Neither was the case.

 

[DyslexicDave]

Jenny the Bet is the man and I bet he would have fared well against Royce His fights in Japan were a thing of legend.

 

[Zefram Cochrane]

that was fkn brutal

 

[NikLuk]

Somehow that makes him the same calibre as Royce who was not the best GJJ practitioner but easily elite & right up there. The same can't be said for all those three that were mentioned especially Ichihara.

Ichihara who was a Karate champ in small unknown org with no professional fights somehow makes him the same calibre as Royce. This in an era where many great professional karate fighters like Andy Hug & co were competing.

Wiet who was not a champ in any respected MT/kickboxing org somehow makes him the same calibre as Royce. This in an era where many great kb/MT fighters like Sakmongkol, Kiatsongrit & co were out there.

I think there is no doubt about BJJ as a great art or Royce as a great BJJ practitioner/fighter but let's not pretend that it was anything other than a contrived showcase of GJJ otherwise you'd have similar calibre opponents to Royce & all arts represented. Neither was the case.

Agreed. Thanks for a well written post (this one and the one above).

Osu!