Benefits of Philly Shell Defense ala Floyd Mayweather Jr?

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slippingthejab

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What is the benefit of the philly shell stance floyd uses? Doesn't it leave a large window to hit your face?
 
slippingthejab said:
What is the benefit of the philly shell stance floyd uses? Doesn't it leave a large window to hit your face?
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its a tactic like any other defensive move. the stance is the secret of the technique. the head is held of center, low left hand ( not always) raised left shoulder, and the body standing pretty much sideways facing your opponent. the reason for the low left hand is to invite a right hand shot so that you can counter it with your own right hand. most however fail to realize that the stance also protects you from jabs to the head and body along with left hooks because the punches have to travel a greater distance giving the fighter ( ie you ) a chance to see and react to the punches thrown. it also allows for greater mobility then the traditional boxing stance

the bad

if the you are not focused the low left hand can cause you to really get nailed by a right hand. also the overhand right can land even if you are focused but tired or slow to react even tho it does travel at a slower rate then the straight right due to the arc it has.

guys to study: mayweather made it famous but james toney is the modern master of this stance. if you want to learn how to really use this style you have to watch as many of his fights as you can bernard hopkins also does it pretty well but from a left hand up position


enjoy

tp
 
Floud doesn't use the Philly Shell.
 
Sorry, I was typing that from my phone. But yes, neither Floyd nor Toney have a pure Philly Shell style. Their style is an adaptation, Floyd Sr. was initially trained by Dale Williams, who was a long-time trainer up in Michigan. Toney, being from Michigan himself, might have been influence both by that style, or by notions Dale taught to others.
 
Sinister said:
Sorry, I was typing that from my phone. But yes, neither Floyd nor Toney have a pure Philly Shell style. Their style is an adaptation, Floyd Sr. was initially trained by Dale Williams, who was a long-time trainer up in Michigan. Toney, being from Michigan himself, might have been influence both by that style, or by notions Dale taught to others.
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Can you elaborate more on what makes their style different from a pure philly shell, and what adaptations they have made to it? Or what a pure philly shell consists of? Always interested in this stuff :)
 
Well, this came about because I asked Floyd Sr. who his trainer was because I never knew, but I heard a name mentioned in the one fight of his on Youtube, where he fought Leonard. The name was Dale Williams. Sr. teaches a style where lead-hand positioning really doesn't matter. But he is a big proponent of the jab, and bringing the lead hand back high if another punch is going to follow the jab. However, you can draw your man in and "get skinny," this is actually partially illegal because it's illegal in Boxing to turn your back. So half-turning your back is a gray area. When drawn in close, the major counter-punches are uppercuts to the body, and over-hand rights, as well as a short tight jab. Roger further developed Floyd Jr."s left hook, Sr. isn't that big a user of the left hook. He can, but the right is his preferred weapon. They're also not big on rolling punches. Every now and again Floyd teaches and encourages rolling, but not a whole lot. Not very much bending of the waist. Instead they lean back to make space for their counters, rather than moving their upper-bodies around yours to create angles, they wait for you to try to do that to them and pick you off. That's the MAIN difference. Rather than rolling, they turn side-to-side to take away surface area to hit.

The pure Philly Shell? Well that looked like this:

 
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Sinister said:
Well, this came about because I asked Floyd Sr. who his trainer was because I never knew, but I heard a name mentioned in the one fight of his on Youtube, where he fought Leonard. The name was Dale Williams. Sr. teaches a style where lead-hand positioning really doesn't matter. But he is a big proponent of the jab, and bringing the lead hand back high if another punch is going to follow the tab. However, you can draw your man in and "get skinny," this is actually partially illegal because it's illegal in Boxing to turn your back. So half-turning your back is a gray area. When drawn in close, the major counter-punches are uppercuts to the body, and over-hand rights, as well as a short tight jab. Roger further developed Floyd Jr."s left hook, Sr. isn't that big a user of the left hook. He can, but the right is his preferred weapon. They're also not big on rolling punches. Every now and again Floyd teaches and encourages rolling, but not a whole lot. Not very much bending of the waist. Instead they lean back to make space for their counters, rather than moving their upper-bodies around yours to create angles, they wait for you to try to do that to them and pick you off. That's the MAIN difference. Rather than rolling, they turn side-to-side to take away surface area to hit.

The pure Philly Shell? Well that looked like this:

Click to expand...


Hmm do u have an example of this side to side movement? I can make my head around the pulling back and getting skinny as I have seen floyd do that many a time but side to side?.
 
First thing he does here:



Pull back, turn side to side.
 
Rolling is this:

mccallum.gif


Now I know what some people might want to ask: "Isn't that weaving?"

Technically no. Weaving is done more with the head up, knees bent down, slight "weave" of the head. Rolling is more dramatic, with the bend at the waist more exaggerated a-la above. Rolling opens up every punching angle as well. You can roll to one side and hit up the middle, behind the elbows near the kidneys, bring a hook to behind the ear, or an uppercut straight up the middle off the roll.
 
LOL I was just going to post the same McCallum gif.

This is why a lot of boxing coaches say stuff like "defense starts at the waist", you take and create angles without sacrificing your balance/defense/movement/counters/etc.
 
thugpoet said:
Hmm do u have an example of this side to side movement? I can make my head around the pulling back and getting skinny as I have seen floyd do that many a time but side to side?.
Click to expand...

Mayweather does that shit alot. Look harder. Almost everytime he's on the ropes being flurried on, he twists side to side to misdirect hooks to his head.
 
vjvj said:
LOL I was just going to post the same McCallum gif.

This is why a lot of boxing coaches say stuff like "defense starts at the waist", you take and create angles without sacrificing your balance/defense/movement/counters/etc.
Click to expand...

It's VERY difficult to teach, though. Getting guys to roll without putting their head past their feet is an incredible task to undertake. Soon as that head goes past the foot, chaos ensues in the movement.
 
t
fightingrabbit said:
Mayweather does that shit alot. Look harder. Almost everytime he's on the ropes being flurried on, he twists side to side to misdirect hooks to his head.
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yes he does I got confused cause everyone calls that rolling
But turning side to side is a more accurate description as I have learned
 
Sinister said:
It's VERY difficult to teach, though. Getting guys to roll without putting their head past their feet is an incredible task to undertake. Soon as that head goes past the foot, chaos ensues in the movement.
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J
Lol sounds like u have seen people do extreme things when they are rolling w punches.

Head not past the front foot, are there any more keys to succes with using this defensive technique
 
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Not head past the front foot. Head past either foot to either side. When you roll you first have to go to one side, that's when they put their heads past their feet. In other words, they lean too far.
 
Sinister said:
Not head past the front foot. Head past either foot to either side. When you roll you first have to go to one side, that's when they put their heads past their feet. In other words, they lean too far.
Click to expand...


what would be the threat if one went past their feet?
 
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