Bas Rutten says don't train Jiu Jitsu for MMA

[Sugar Sean]

" Then you have wrestling, and you need to know wrestling. Of course you need to know the ground game, and this is very important. Not jujitsu "


What are your views on this ?

 

[Hillary]

You don't need to know gi Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for MMA. I disagree with "gi makes you better for nogi." No, practicing how you're going to compete gets you better. You need a solid wrestling background and, as Bas said, a knowledge of ground game. Whether that be sambo, hayastan, catch, luta livre, or a nogi version of BJJ. All you need a proficient knowledge of the ground game that allows you to defend submissions and maintain or achieve dominant position.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

to be a proficient mma fighter? I dont think you need to know gi bjj, I dont even think you need to be an excellent subgrappler, you could be a striker with good tdd and subdefense, that has proven to be more than enough to excel at MMA, of course there's the other way, where you can be an exelent sub grappler an not be an awesome striker, and that has proven to be more than enough to excel in MMA too... there are different roads, many people have their opinions on this subject, I personally dont agree with the say of training in the Gi makes you a better grappler, then again, the biggest name in the grappling world said the contrary, then again you have awesome subgrapplers who have never trained in a gi coming from catch, LL and other no gi based systems...

 

[jujijimmy]

jon jones isnt a high level bjj guy and he submitted a fare few after hes beaten the crap out of them.

 

[SUPERGRAPPLER]

My gi training definitely helps my nogi. I love how the gi looks, the game, and the tradition but nogi is a lot funner for me and I am better at it. Honestly I wish that I had the same love for training in the gi.

 

[SUPERGRAPPLER]

to be a proficient mma fighter? I dont think you need to know gi bjj, I dont even think you need to be an excellent subgrappler, you could be a striker with good tdd and subdefense, that has proven to be more than enough to excel at MMA, of course there's the other way, where you can be an exelent sub grappler an not be an awesome striker, and that has proven to be more than enough to excel in MMA too... there are different roads, many people have their opinions on this subject, I personally dont agree with the say of training in the Gi makes you a better grappler, then again, the biggest name in the grappling world said the contrary, then again you have awesome subgrapplers who have never trained in a gi coming from catch, LL and other no gi based systems...

Good post. It seems like things in the grappling and mma world are not clearly defined. Like many things the answer is not so cut and dry. There are so many grey areas.

 

[BiggThump]

jon jones isnt a high level bjj guy and he submitted a fare few after hes beaten the crap out of them.

Jones is the exception to the rule as he's a beast at 205,but most need some bjj training just to learn basic escapes and counters.

 

[Hillary]

My gi training definitely helps my nogi.

No. No it doesn't. Anyone who says this is silly. It helps your ground knowledge in general, but does nothing specifically to help your nogi. It's like saying dribbling drills help your ability to shoot free throws. It may increase your general comfort with ball handling but isn't specifically helping the other skill.

Jones is the exception to the rule as he's a beast at 205,but most need some bjj training just to learn basic escapes and counters.

No, also not true. Do you have to know a ground game? Absolutely. Is BJJ the only proficient ground martial art out there? Absolutely not. Quite frankly, I prefer the mean as hell ground arts for MMA (hayastan, catch, LL).

 

[Hellboy31]

Well at least post the quote in context. You have a fraction of a thought quoted.

While training gi may not be more efficient than training no gi (for no gi competition) - To say that Gi training doesn't benefit your no gi game is just stupid.

I train most of the time in the gi and my no gi game is slightly better than my gi game. Bas is probably just saying that BJJ is not essential to MMA as long as you are learning some kind of ground style.

 

[entersherdog]

My gi training definitely helps my nogi. I love how the gi looks, the game, and the tradition but nogi is a lot funner for me and I am better at it. Honestly I wish that I had the same love for training in the gi.

So you're saying Gi makes you look pretty and helps you harvest chi powa, which in turn makes your no-Gi game better???

 

[MickCollins]

You don't have to know how to swim to dive.


But it helps.

 

[Hillary]

Well at least post the quote in context. You have a fraction of a thought quoted.

While training gi may not be more efficient than training no gi (for no gi competition) - To say that Gi training doesn't benefit your no gi game is just stupid.

I train most of the time in the gi and my no gi game is slightly better than my gi game. Bas is probably just saying that BJJ is not essential to MMA as long as you are learning some kind of ground style.

The rest of the quote was superfluous and anecdotal. With or without that context, the claim remains the same. And wrong.

Gi BJJ and Nogi BJJ have basic fundamental positional skills. Training in either of them improves your overall grappling level, obviously. You are mistaking this gain in general skill for specific nogi gain. But if you think that lapel chokes, gi grips, sleeve-control open guards, etc. directly correlate to any SPECIFICALLY nogi skills you're 100% wrong.

Ground training in general makes you better at grappling. Gi grappling makes you better at gi grappling. And Nogi makes you better at nogi grappling. Period.

EDIT: Not sure if you're referring to me quoting pretty grappler or the Bas quote.

 

[Hellboy31]

No. No it doesn't. Anyone who says this is silly. It helps your ground knowledge in general, but does nothing specifically to help your nogi. It's like saying dribbling drills help your ability to shoot free throws. It may increase your general comfort with ball handling but isn't specifically helping the other skill.



No, also not true. Do you have to know a ground game? Absolutely. Is BJJ the only proficient ground martial art out there? Absolutely not. Quite frankly, I prefer the mean as hell ground arts for MMA (hayastan, catch, LL).

Are you really acting like you know what he finds more beneficial to his own training than he does.

Sorry but getting a black belt in a short period of time and winning a major tournament doesn't give you the ability to come in here and debunk someone else's opinion on principle..... Who are you to tell him that his gi training doesn't benefit his no gi game? Coming off a little arrogant these days, Hillary.

 

[Hellboy31]

The rest of your quote was superfluous and anecdotal. With or without that context, the claim remains the same. And wrong.

Gi BJJ and Nogi BJJ have basic fundamental positional skills. Training in either of them improves your overall grappling level, obviously. You are mistaking this gain in general skill for specific nogi gain. But if you think that lapel chokes, gi grips, sleeve-control open guards, etc. directly correlate to any SPECIFICALLY nogi skills you're 100% wrong.

Ground training in general makes you better at grappling. Gi grappling makes you better at gi grappling. And Nogi makes you better at nogi grappling. Period.

EDIT: Not sure if you're referring to me quoting pretty grappler or the Bas quote. Edited to remove personal pronouns.

Period nothing. Your opinions are your opinions. Stop stating them as fact.

 

[Hillary]

Lol, you guys are great at common sense.

 

[Hellboy31]

Lol, you guys are great at common sense.

Maybe when you come down to earth, you can fill us all in on how to do it correctly then.

 

[Hillary]

You're attacking me and not my argument. I wrote absolutely none of that in a ****y manner, your assumption of my sense of higher self worth is completely false, it's just that after years of hearing dumb comments like that from either side is simply silly.

So, attack my argument. What about my assessment of gi's nogi benefits being more related to overall grappling experience versus nogi specifics is wrong?

 

[GracieMMABarra]

For MMA you don't need to be a submission wizard and there are plenty of other ground arts.

 

[ChainFlow]

Hellboy31 - you're asking her to prove a negative...

Bas is right, too.

 

[Hellboy31]

You're attacking me and not my argument. I wrote absolutely none of that in a ****y manner, your assumption of my sense of higher self worth is completely false, it's just that after years of hearing dumb comments like that from either side is simply silly.

So, attack my argument. What about my assessment of gi's nogi benefits being more related to overall grappling experience versus nogi specifics is wrong?

I'm not really attacking you or your argument. You just have a habit of sounding a bit like a know it all. I don't know you and I have no idea what kind of a person you are in real life - I'm sure you're a driven and good person. But you come off like an arrogant know it all and I think you've been mistreated by the gobs of basement dwellers who smooch your ass every time you come on the forum.

I hope you're not offended by my opinion but if I came off that way, I'd hope somebody would say something to me as well.

Your opinion has merit. Unfortunately it's lost due to your delivery. You state your opinion as fact when you're not in a position to do so IMO.