Bas Rutten on MMA jabs- can I get some help on this?

[MoMurdah]

I read a sig on here that was a Bas quote that said jabs are ineffective in MMA. Now, obviously this is because in boxing and muay thai there are bigass gloves your opponent can easily cover themselves up with so you need to open them up with jabs and trick them.

Now, I see Bas' point here- in MMA with those tiny gloves its easy to slip them through people's guards. He even says he would eat a jab to land a real punch, see Nick Diaz v Paul Daley for a good example of that.

However, GSP has done well against top notch wrestlers with his jab. Keep in mind, his technique is pretty perfect with it. So I was trying to think of situations when a jab is appropriate in an MMA setting, because it HAS been used before, although it is quite rare to see someone use jabs like GSP.

When does GSP throw a lot of jabs? Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like hes only used them significantly against KJoscheck and Shields. These are both primarily wrestlers that could not match the stand up of GSP. My question is, or rather, has become is the success of the jab in MMA based more upon superior athleticism (moving in and out of danger quickly) or more in superior technique (no telegraphing, perfect range, agility) or a mixture of the two? Or is there way more to it?

 

[MisterT]

If I remember correctly, Bas seems to differentiate between what he calls "jabs" and "straight lefts".

Basically, in Bas's world, the "jab" is similar to a flicker jab, or one of those feeler jabs that fighters sometimes throw out to gauge distance. The "straight left", according to Bas, is the step-in jab like the ones GSP used against Koscheck. They have more power behind them.

Now, I don't particularly agree with Bas's views here. I think the Jab (regardless of whether it's the flicker jab, up jab, step-in jab, pivot jab, etc, etc) is an integral part of fighting and should be used much more. Keep in mind that Bas comes from the pioneer era of MMA. Those were the days where striking usually consisted of looping haymakers and windmill punches. MMA has evolved to the point where the science behind boxing (the jab in particular) is becoming more important and fighters are picking up on this. GSP, Kenny Florian, JDS, Diaz, etc, have all added the jab to their repertoire and used it to great success.

 

[SMillard]

Bas discouraged the jab in MMA for poor success/risk ratio. The jab is normally used for setting up other combinations and controlling your opponent, according to Bas or at least how I understood an explanation by him with the threat of takedowns, kicks and clinching the gains made by throwing jabs were not worth the risk of the other avenues of attack.

The game has evolved and people have made good use of the jab, you have to remember that Bas was around in the early stages where you didn't have the more well rounded mma fighters you have now. Then you had strikers who learned some grappling and grapplers that learned a little striking. Now you are seeing people that are fairly equally competent at both.

 

[whougonnacall]

edgar,jds, gsp of the top of my head seem to disagree

 

[Soul Rebel 2]

Watch Barry vs Struve for an example of what happens when you only throw power punches.

 

[c0r1nth14n]

If I remember correctly, Bas seems to differentiate between what he calls "jabs" and "straight lefts".

Basically, in Bas's world, the "jab" is similar to a flicker jab, or one of those feeler jabs that fighters sometimes throw out to gauge distance. The "straight left", according to Bas, is the step-in jab like the ones GSP used against Koscheck. They have more power behind them.

Now, I don't particularly agree with Bas's views here. I think the Jab (regardless of whether it's the flicker jab, up jab, step-in jab, pivot jab, etc, etc) is an integral part of fighting and should be used much more. Keep in mind that Bas comes from the pioneer era of MMA. Those were the days where striking usually consisted of looping haymakers and windmill punches. MMA has evolved to the point where the science behind boxing (the jab in particular) is becoming more important and fighters are picking up on this. GSP, Kenny Florian, JDS, Diaz, etc, have all added the jab to their repertoire and used it to great success.

This is correct, or at least, the first two paragraphs. I've seen videos where Bas talked about the use of the straight left vs the ineffectiveness of the jab. And on a personal note, I'd agree with the last paragraph as well. Obviously what Bas did worked very well for him in that era of MMA, but things are different now.

He's got a gym in Thousand Oaks. I wonder if they teach the jab nowdays?

 

[The_observer86]

It is worth mentioning that most of Bas's career (he only has 3 modern rules mma fights) he fought without punching to the head--only slaps and kicks allowed. Kinda hard to jab with open hand isn't it?

 

[KickFromHell]

Penn disagrees. Edgar disagrees. And some others too...

 

[c0r1nth14n]

It is worth mentioning that most of Bas's career (he only has 3 modern rules mma fights) he fought without punching to the head--only slaps and kicks allowed. Kinda hard to jab with open hand isn't it?

If I recall correctly, he threw plenty of open-hand crosses and "left straights", as he called them.

 

[Jukai]

Bas had a BIZARRE combination of Kyokushin and MT, his stance was more MT and his striking was more Kyo... I mean, really, it may not that great to MMA fighting advice from Bas unless you're going to completely mimic him, because the way he fought was so unorthodox.

 

[Steakeater**]

The jab is usless in Bas stance because he is 100% square. Shouldnt be that confusing.

I dont agree with many of his techniques anyhow, such as discouraging pivoting on the kick

 

[thugpoet]

Bas doesn't know shit about boxing

 

[MisterT]

Bas doesn't know shit about boxing

lol, every time I read a statement like that, I automatically read it in Roger Mayweather's voice:

 

[jlagman]

Big ass gloves?

 

[thugpoet]

lol, every time I read a statement like that, I automatically read it in Roger Mayweather's voice:

lol

 

[MoMurdah]

Bas doesn't know shit about boxing

so wrong Idk where to begin. You know he trains people in pure boxing right? My sales manager at Thousand Oaks toyota learned under him and he was a great boxer.

Stop posting when you dont know wtf you are talking about! We dont need shertards in the standup forum!!!!

 

[thugpoet]

so wrong Idk where to begin. You know he trains people in pure boxing right? My sales manager at Thousand Oaks toyota learned under him and he was a great boxer.

Stop posting when you dont know wtf you are talking about! We dont need shertards in the standup forum!!!!

Haha it was a joke calm down baby boy lol

At any rate idc what he teaches if he says the jab is useless then he doesn't know what he is talking about plain and simple. Idk y ur so but hurt

 

[Jukai]

so wrong Idk where to begin. You know he trains people in pure boxing right? My sales manager at Thousand Oaks toyota learned under him and he was a great boxer.

Stop posting when you dont know wtf you are talking about! We dont need shertards in the standup forum!!!!

Well, let's actually make it clear that Bas, during his MMA days, actually didn't do much technical boxing. He learned to "dirty box" with his friends in their backyards cause his parents didn't let him do any martial arts. What he brings into the ring is Kyokushin and Muay Thai (he also has a blackbelt in TKD). I don't think he ever learned true technical boxing until after he was out of MMA, although someone can feel free to correct me on that if they know better.

I have no idea when the statement was made, but it could have been made before he really learned technical boxing.

 

[violentbydesign**]

There is more to it. Learn about boxing and then you'll have your answer. The jab is incredibly useful. Almost all the most successful fighters you see in MMA use the jab very well. Penn, Cruz, Junior dos santos, Anderson, Edgar the list goes on and on. The reason GSP started using his jab more in those two fights is he was training with Freddie roach.

Nick Diaz is horrible example to use. The man has no defense expect his chin. Using jabs does not equal no defense.

" Now, obviously this is because in boxing and muay thai there are bigass gloves your opponent can easily cover themselves up with so you need to open them up with jabs and trick them. " What? Do you know anything about striking?

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Haha it was a joke calm down baby boy lol

At any rate idc what he teaches if he says the jab is useless then he doesn't know what he is talking about plain and simple. Idk y ur so but hurt

bas just felt that everything should be a full force power punch/kick/knee he didnt like the "flicky" type of jabs.

Nothing wrong with that imo if you have the power and gas tank to fight like that. You could easy use a strait blast or stiff jab which he pretty much did in place of a typical jab

I think bas was largely just speaking in a personal sense such as how he said if you get in a dominant position on the ground its better to punch the crap out of them than go for a sub because then you can lose a good position.