Bagwork is useless?

[David Davidson]

So ive been training for a while (kickboxing) and ive always incorporated bagwork into my training. I use it mostly for power, speed and technique training. Anyway recently I met a semi-pro mma fighter. He's fought all over russia, japan and the uk.

He told me that he doesn't really do bagwork and that its basically useless. He said pads and shadow boxing would be much more beneficial. What are your thoughts on this and do you think I should drop bagwork completely. Thanks

 

[fluffball]

I think he's using hyperbole to make his point. If taken literally, he's basically wrong. If you had a personal trainer that was constantly helping you with partner drills, pads, sparring, etc., that would be awesome. I mean holding a Thai pad for someone is basically like being a heavy bag for them only you can move.

For working on your own, bag work is fantastic.

 

[StopDucking]

He's wrong. Bagwork is the most important thing after sparring.

 

[fluffball]

I think saying a heavy bag is the best is as bad as saying it's the worst. There are a bunch of different tools we can use and most of them have merit... or people wouldn't use them and you'd never have heard of a heavy bag.

 

[freaky]

So ive been training for a while (kickboxing) and ive always incorporated bagwork into my training. I use it mostly for power, speed and technique training. Anyway recently I met a semi-pro mma fighter. He's fought all over russia, japan and the uk.

He told me that he doesn't really do bagwork and that its basically useless. He said pads and shadow boxing would be much more beneficial. What are your thoughts on this and do you think I should drop bagwork completely. Thanks

how is shadowboxing and bag work any different? At least with bag work you're actually hitting something.

 

[Paradigm]

Useless? No...it's not useless or you wouldn't see so many pros do it. What is a "semi-pro fighter" anyways?

Not pure MT bagwork but I'd think it's hard to look like this on a bag and be a complete shit fighter in the ring.

 

[Hi-Tech]

how is shadowboxing and bag work any different? At least with bag work you're actually hitting something.

Shadowboxing is much more important because you're imitating an actual fight in your head, you're working the angles and footwork.

The heavy bag is stationary, it's for training power. You unload your power shots on the heavy bag and that's it. But in a proper fight the opponent will not be a stationary target like the heavy bag or if he is that means that he's a good and experienced brawler and maybe it's not a good idea for you to be stationary in front of him so you better learn how to move around a bit.

When you're shadowboxing you practice throwing punches while moving around at the same time and you can also practice upper body movement, imagining that you have to dodge your opponent's punches, switching between offense and defense etc. There's basically not a single thing that you can't do while shadowboxing.

If you look in history there were boxers who hardly sparred, boxers who didn't like mitts (Ali) or didn't like heavy bag but you won't find a single relevant boxer who didn't shadow box. Shadowboxing is like your signature as a fighter, it's the base for everything.

Heavy bag is important too because you train power on it and you prepare your hands.

IMO Hopkins explained perfectly here why you need to work the heavy bag:



Another thing that I'd like to point out is that boxing training is not only difficult physically but mentally too because you have to be so concentrated on what you're doing all the time so it's a good thing to do say 5, 6 rounds straight on the heavy bag every now and then to let your mind go and just punch a bit. You're still doing something physically and training your muscle memory for boxing while resting your mind a bit.

 

[StopDucking]

Ideally, you want to train everything but not all exercises are equally important. You could look like the best fighter of all time while shadowboxing or hitting mitts but if you suck at bag work or sparring, you still suck.

And just because the heavy bag is stationary doesn't mean YOU should be stationary too.

 

[fluffball]

stuff

I agree with nearly everything you wrote, but the heavy bag does not have to just be for power. It's great for cutting angles. MT guys especially tend to just stand in front of a bag wailing on it with huge kicks, but IMO if you're not circling it, pivoting, and pulling, you're not getting the full benefit of it. No one just stands in front of an opponent, and doing so on the heavy bag ingrains bad habits. Not pulling on a heavy bag is the same as the guys that throw the huge kick and then take a break to stop the bag swinging or something stupid like that.

 

[Hi-Tech]

I agree with nearly everything you wrote, but the heavy bag does not have to just be for power. It's great for cutting angles. MT guys especially tend to just stand in front of a bag wailing on it with huge kicks, but IMO if you're not circling it, pivoting, and pulling, you're not getting the full benefit of it. No one just stands in front of an opponent, and doing so on the heavy bag ingrains bad habits. Not pulling on a heavy bag is the same as the guys that throw the huge kick and then take a break to stop the bag swinging or something stupid like that.

I agree, you can do this too.

I like the way Cotto trains on the heavy bag, he's always circling around:



This is IMO the perfect way to do it but I think a lot of this comes from shadowboxing a lot and then just boxing on the heavy bag in a similar fashion you do when you're shadowboxing.

Either way heavy bag is great, I definitely agree with that.

 

[a guy]

The heavy bag is neither useless nor the most important tool. It's important because you can do everything you can do while shadowboxing (angles, defense, head movement) while also getting feedback on your punches. This isn't to say it's better than shadowboxing, or that it can replace shadowboxing, but that the two work great together. Both allow you to work at your own pace and flow, as opposed to being forced to work at the rhythm of a partner. It's important to be deliberate when hitting the heavy bag though. If you're just trying to smash it you won't get a lot out of it. You need to have an idea of what you're working and stay focused. It can be used to work on technique, power, distance, timing, movement--you can practice almost any skill during bag work.

 

[ARIZE]

It's also helps with cardio, and you have a better feedback of how weak your strikes have become as you get more and more tired...
A lot different feeling after 10 rounds of shadowboxing, and 10 rounds of heavy bag.

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

Many fighters are very opinionated and state things very confidently (X doesn't work, Y is necessary, etc), but you can usually find someone better who swears by the "useless" thing and thinks the "necessary" thing is unnecessary.

There are few objective truths when it comes to learning how to fight.

 

[PivotPunch]

He's wrong. Bagwork is the most important thing after sparring.

Nah drills are the most important thing after sparring. i rarely do bagwork. it is great to obviously practive punching and you can do it for endurance but it's not that important if you have someone else to train with. But it's mostly there to get fluid with your punching, practice combos and imrpove punching mechanics. Drills are more important if you could only do one thing beside sparrring it would be drills

 

[AndyTran]

Very good for developing power, its like you are lifting heavy with your strikes.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

I agree, you can do this too.

I like the way Cotto trains on the heavy bag, he's always circling around:



This is IMO the perfect way to do it but I think a lot of this comes from shadowboxing a lot and then just boxing on the heavy bag in a similar fashion you do when you're shadowboxing.

Either way heavy bag is great, I definitely agree with that.

I was hoping that video would get shared.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

The heavy bag is stationary, it's for training power. You unload your power shots on the heavy bag and that's it. But in a proper fight the opponent will not be a stationary target like the heavy bag or if he is that means that he's a good and experienced brawler and maybe it's not a good idea for you to be stationary in front of him so you better learn how to move around a bit.
.

This is not true at all you can do all the angle cutting and foot work on a heavybag you can with shadow boxing. Any video of a decent pro on the bag shows them doing more than just wailing on it full power

 

[Kanka]

Semi pro? There are thousands of elite pro fighters that train on the heavy bag. Its not useless. You need to use it correctly though to avoid bad habits

 

[AndyTran]

I try to do bagwork alone once a week in addition to padwork and sparring as doing bagwork alone is like meditation to me.
I try to flow around the bag, working it as it swings around, trying to make my head as clear as possible. And no music on to embrace the meditating aspect in contrast to rap or rock music during padwork/ sparring.
It feels really zen like.
A lot of small details improvement was discovered during my bagwork.

Another way is to drill technique, like
throwing
20 jabs
20 jab cross
20 jab cross hook
20 jab hook cross
20 cross hook
20 hook cross
20 jab right kick
20 jab cross right kick
... the list go on as what I feel like practicing more.

 

[DoubleAAZ]

I do both at the moment as I can't get to a gym yet. I used a fitbit to monitor My heart rate and after a month my average heart rate was a good bit higher than when I was hitting the bag. I put it down to no recoil off the bag having to pull back my punches and using more footwork during the shadow boxing. Definitely felt more tired after the bagwork though.