International [Arab-Israeli Conflict, v4] Israel Sets Goal of Doubling the Jewish Population on the Golan Heights

https://thehill.com/opinion/interna...netanyahu-but-did-no-favors-for-israel-and-us

Trump’s decision will help Netanyahu. It will not help Israel, although neither Trump nor Netanyahu seem overly concerned about the consequences of the announcement.

Refocusing international attention on the Golan already resulted in condemnation by the Europeans and by the hypocritical Russians, who are celebrating the fifth anniversary of their annexation of Crimea. Of far greater concern, it is likely to take attention away from the danger that ongoing Iranian incursions into western Syria could result in transforming the current shadow conflict between Israel and Iran into all-out war. If that should prove to be the case, both men will have a lot to answer for.
 
Israel is a fake country created by the British empire, based on a 3000 year old book.

They massacred the native population of the land, manufactured a country and brought European Jews to it, and are not recognizing the settlers as the rightful owners of this land.

Tragic, really.

A stunning lack of historical knowledge.

Remember "Render unto Caesar?" Judea existed at the time of Christ. Where do you think he lived?

Brits did everything they could to stop the creation of Israel. Google "SS Exodus." Brits stopped refugees from postwar Europe and threw them in internment camps in Cyprus and Mauritius to try to keep the Arab and Jewish populations relatively equal. Their original plan was to send them back to the British occupied zone of Germany (good idea, send Nazi death camp survivors back to camps in Germany), but that fell through as the civilized world had a shit fit.

The post WWII British Foreign Office was filled with a bunch of Arabists. If the Brits were so pro-Israel, the bombing of the King David Hotel would never have happened.
 
https://thehill.com/opinion/interna...netanyahu-but-did-no-favors-for-israel-and-us

Trump’s decision will help Netanyahu. It will not help Israel, although neither Trump nor Netanyahu seem overly concerned about the consequences of the announcement.

Refocusing international attention on the Golan already resulted in condemnation by the Europeans and by the hypocritical Russians, who are celebrating the fifth anniversary of their annexation of Crimea. Of far greater concern, it is likely to take attention away from the danger that ongoing Iranian incursions into western Syria could result in transforming the current shadow conflict between Israel and Iran into all-out war. If that should prove to be the case, both men will have a lot to answer for.

The Russians are now saying that if Israel keep the Golan Heights that they won after beating back the Syria-led plan for the Arabs to invade and exterminate the Jews, then by the same logic they have valid claim over Ukraine's Crimea.

Whut? When did Ukraine plotted to invade and commit genocide in Russia? o_O
 
A stunning lack of historical knowledge.

Remember "Render unto Caesar?" Judea existed at the time of Christ. Where do you think he lived?

Brits did everything they could to stop the creation of Israel. Google "SS Exodus." Brits stopped refugees from postwar Europe and threw them in internment camps in Cyprus and Mauritius to try to keep the Arab and Jewish populations relatively equal. Their original plan was to send them back to the British occupied zone of Germany (good idea, send Nazi death camp survivors back to camps in Germany), but that fell through as the civilized world had a shit fit.

The post WWII British Foreign Office was filled with a bunch of Arabists. If the Brits were so pro-Israel, the bombing of the King David Hotel would never have happened.

"Brits did everything they could to stop the creation of Israel."

Which is why they left?

"The post WWII British Foreign Office was filled with a bunch of Arabists."

Which is why they the French and the Israeli's tried to tagteam Egypt against American wishes? UK and France used to be the pro Israel Western governments, those roles have swapped.
 
The recent flareup sure looks like Hamas is endorsing Bibi.

They also be acting out to try to unify support for Hamas and they think another mini-conflict will build solidarity for Hamas.

The people who were just protesting against Hamas will bear the brunt of some of Israel's responses.
 
https://thehill.com/opinion/interna...netanyahu-but-did-no-favors-for-israel-and-us

Trump’s decision will help Netanyahu. It will not help Israel, although neither Trump nor Netanyahu seem overly concerned about the consequences of the announcement.

Refocusing international attention on the Golan already resulted in condemnation by the Europeans and by the hypocritical Russians, who are celebrating the fifth anniversary of their annexation of Crimea. Of far greater concern, it is likely to take attention away from the danger that ongoing Iranian incursions into western Syria could result in transforming the current shadow conflict between Israel and Iran into all-out war. If that should prove to be the case, both men will have a lot to answer for.
Iran, at least in their current situation, will never fight Israel. Israel has been quietly bombing Iranian and Hezbollah targets in Syria and Iran and Hezbollah only ever speak up about it when they have to.

They’re economically fucked and have too many resources handling jihadists in Syria. The support of a bunch of pissed off, unorganized Shia Arabs isn’t going to be enough to tip the scale in their favor.
 
"Brits did everything they could to stop the creation of Israel."

Which is why they left?

They were forced out by Irgun, Lehi, and the Haganah. Basically, the Brits said "Fuck it, we've had enough," and turned the problem over to the U.N.

"

"The post WWII British Foreign Office was filled with a bunch of Arabists."

Which is why they the French and the Israeli's tried to tag team Egypt against American wishes? UK and France used to be the pro Israel Western governments, those roles have swapped.

I'm well aware of the history.

Point of fact: Great Britain abstained from the vote on UN Resolution 181. Think about that....if England really wanted Israel to exist, why wouldn't it have voted "For"?

As for the Suez War, Nasser was already doing whatever he could to frustrate Britain in the Middle East. He was particularly pissed off following he defense pact Britain had signed with his "enemy" Iraq (Nasser saw Iraq as standing in the way of Egypt dominating the Arab world). He also convinced the Jordanians to turn training and control of the Jordanian army from the Brits to Egypt, which drove then Prime Minister Anthony Eden bat shit crazy. He came to hate Nasser with a passion. Closing the Suez Canal was the last straw and letting Nasser get away with it was seen as akin to the Munich Agreement in the Conservative Party. The Labour Party, on the other had, was very much against attacking Nasser. The whole affair was very controversial from the get-go in England.

France is a different story (not sure why you brought it up), but France was closely allied with Israel back then. Israel bought French weaponry and the two nations worked together on their nuclear programs. Egypt was also seen as supporting the Algerian separatist movement. It's tough to realize now but the French really saw Algeria as part of France.
 
They were forced out by Irgun, Lehi, and the Haganah. Basically, the Brits said "Fuck it, we've had enough," and turned the problem over to the U.N.



I'm well aware of the history.

Point of fact: Great Britain abstained from the vote on UN Resolution 181. Think about that....if England really wanted Israel to exist, why wouldn't it have voted "For"?

As for the Suez War, Nasser was already doing whatever he could to frustrate Britain in the Middle East. He was particularly pissed off following he defense pact Britain had signed with his "enemy" Iraq (Nasser saw Iraq as standing in the way of Egypt dominating the Arab world). He also convinced the Jordanians to turn training and control of the Jordanian army from the Brits to Egypt, which drove then Prime Minister Anthony Eden bat shit crazy. He came to hate Nasser with a passion. Closing the Suez Canal was the last straw and letting Nasser get away with it was seen as akin to the Munich Agreement in the Conservative Party. The Labour Party, on the other had, was very much against attacking Nasser. The whole affair was very controversial from the get-go in England.

France is a different story (not sure why you brought it up), but France was closely allied with Israel back then. Israel bought French weaponry and the two nations worked together on their nuclear programs. Egypt was also seen as supporting the Algerian separatist movement. It's tough to realize now but the French really saw Algeria as part of France.

An abstention is very open to interpretation. Look at Obama's abstention on what should be the least controversial complaint about Israel, stop building settlements and walking that genocidy tightrope.

England didn't want Israel to exist, they didn't not want Israel to exist. Their abstention showed their position on the matter. Their most important priority was leaving(something we should learn from, after centuries of war there's a time to quit) and they left a pretty fair plan. The British were the ones who put the structures in place that required countries to divide on religion, look at India and while I'm not sure how much the British split up the Israelis and Palestineans not well versed on that, but different country's is a product of the British colonial system. Anyhow before WWII, Zionism was just a movement where Jews were mass migrating to Palestine. The Jews were going to have a majority or large minority there no matter what, the Holocaust and reaction to it is what got the international community to act and formally create a Jewish state rather than there just being an area in the Middle East that happened to have a lot of Jews.

Anyhow the idea of Israel being a refuge for European Jews isn't a myth, some Holocaust survivors did go to Palestine, but it's close. Most Jews didn't just run to Israel after the Holocaust the ones who were there were mostly there for decades. Immigration did increase I assume but the modern Israeli's were already a set up group dating back to the 19th century. That group used the Holocaust as a way to get across the finish line of their goal. But the Jews in Palestine were a pre existing constituency, and to paint a picture like the Holocaust happened and the UK didn't want to authorize a Jewish state for Holocaust survivors is very misleading. The Israeli and Palestinean situation was pre existing and even without WWII and without a Holocaust, the Jewish, Palestinean tension over land was there and the UK would have been tired anyway of dealing with it.

Palestine was a mandate and it was already assumed the Brits would leave Palestine along in the near future, which would have to involve some agreement between Jews and Palestineans. The Brits didn't look for Palestine, they weren't looking for a war with Turkey but shit happens and they ended up with half the Middle East in their lap. In the spirit of "self determination", these areas were turned into mandates where they'd leave after the colonies were self governing. The Europeans got to benefit from the spoils of the war for a few decades without either the PR nightmare or logistical hassal of occupying a colony. Keeping their hands off was very much at the heart of their intentions from the beginning. This isn't India which was a formal British colony where the Brits where pushed away kicking and screaming. From the moment Palestine was in British hands the outcome you've described is the one they were going for. Nothing for or against Israel.

Also the Brits were dealing with the whole Ireland situation and I think the last thing on earth they wanted to do was get involved in another conflict between local religious groups.

The UK, France and Israel would have succeeded if Dwight Eisenhower didn't threaten them assuming the Soviets didn't intervene. The invasion was going very smoothly and Eisenhower probably threatened to do very violent things to get them to stop on a moments notice. Ah a time when we had a President who actually wanted stability.

The French were run by a right wing lunatic who wanted to be Napoleon. Dude was a nobody who only got to succeed because he was the biggest military person who escaped France and didn't cooperate with the Nazi's. Every wonder why we got dragged into the Vietnam War? French were brutal af in Vietnam, the Vietmanese Communists revolted and in the name of wonderful containement we stepped in and lost thousands of American lives to a Commi who'd lived in the US who admired the founding fathers and actually wanted to be our friend if we didn't insist on destroying his country in the name of a depraved lunatic(and then containment).

Don't get me started on the Algeria thing. France spends a century bitching about their low birth rate(France bitching about their birth rate was the main issue that led to the Treaty of Versailles and WWII, needed to keep Germany down really hard because France had such a smaller birthrate) which was caused by going to war every generation for four hundred fucking years. Do you know France is supposed to have a population about the size of ours if they didn't just keep killing each generation? Anyhow now they got Algeria which is part of France, traditional part of the Roman Empire, fight to keep it and while that doesn't work out, lots of Algerians bought into that, Algeria has a fucking huge population, get 10% to 20% to buy in and that's a lot. Then after the war the Algerians who were supposedly French immigrate and fix France's problem for them, and instead of the French saying thank you, the French go all out Nazi and start crying about how they are losing their identity when they are still 90%ish ethnically homogeneous.
 



Israeli-Hamas war is such BS. Hamas are a bunch of freedom fighters who have no real chance against the US backed IDF. Its a scare tactic.

Even Iran is a joke against the IDF. Zionists need to scare the US public into supporting Israel.
 
The Russians are now saying that if Israel keep the Golan Heights that they won after beating back the Syria-led plan for the Arabs to invade and exterminate the Jews, then by the same logic they have valid claim over Ukraine's Crimea.

Whut? When did Ukraine plotted to invade and commit genocide in Russia? o_O


israel took the Golan Heights in 1967, after the Six Day War, to prevent attacks from Arab nations from the elevation of the plateau. The topographic superiority allows a small Israeli defense force to repel attacks by large armies; in 1973, 177 Israeli tanks in the area stopped the onslaught of 1,500 Syrian ones.

Putin took Crimea feaing that a new Ukrainian government would shut the Russian military bases in the peninsula and allow the North Atlantic Treaty Organization to establish a presence right next to Russia’s Black Sea ports, effectively shutting off the country’s warm sea access.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...hts-and-crimea-land-grabs-aren-t-so-different
 
Ibish nails recent events it in this article

Basically all the political forces in power benefit from a short battle to show they are tough and standing up. It is a short article and should read the whole thing but here is the main points.

For the third time in two weeks, a long-range rocket has been fired from the Gaza Strip into Israel, slamming into a house Monday morning and injuring seven civilians.

Almost all the involved parties have reasons to welcome a limited escalation. They also have reasons to prevent hostilites from going too far. But fighting can be hard to stop.

The latest crisis began on March 16, when two Hamas rockets landed in the Tel Aviv area. No one was hurt. Hamas said it was a mistake. Israel and Egypt chalked the attack up to “incompetence.” Israel made a limited response that injured two Palestinians. Hamas avoided any retaliation and called off a scheduled protest at the border.

All sides plainly preferred to avoid another conflict.

But that kind of quick de-escalation is now unlikely, particularly for Netanyahu, who cannot afford to look weak.

On the other side, it’s easy to see why someone in Gaza decided to instigate a military crisis.

Hamas is in political trouble. It's been facing angry demonstrations by Gazans under the banner, "We want to live,” protesting Hamas mismanagement, brutality and authoritarianism. Hamas has responded with more repression.

Trump’s blessing of Israel’s annexation of Golan and Jerusalem could prove especially useful for Iran and its Shiite proxies. Distrusted by many Arabs, they can now pose as champions of Arab and Muslim interests against Israeli expansion and U.S. imperialism.


https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...and-middle-east-adversaries-tiptoe-toward-war
 
An abstention is very open to interpretation. Look at Obama's abstention on what should be the least controversial complaint about Israel, stop building settlements and walking that genocidy tightrope.

England didn't want Israel to exist, they didn't not want Israel to exist. Their abstention showed their position on the matter. Their most important priority was leaving(something we should learn from, after centuries of war there's a time to quit) and they left a pretty fair plan. The British were the ones who put the structures in place that required countries to divide on religion, look at India and while I'm not sure how much the British split up the Israelis and Palestineans not well versed on that, but different country's is a product of the British colonial system. Anyhow before WWII, Zionism was just a movement where Jews were mass migrating to Palestine. The Jews were going to have a majority or large minority there no matter what, the Holocaust and reaction to it is what got the international community to act and formally create a Jewish state rather than there just being an area in the Middle East that happened to have a lot of Jews.

Anyhow the idea of Israel being a refuge for European Jews isn't a myth, some Holocaust survivors did go to Palestine, but it's close. Most Jews didn't just run to Israel after the Holocaust the ones who were there were mostly there for decades. Immigration did increase I assume but the modern Israeli's were already a set up group dating back to the 19th century. That group used the Holocaust as a way to get across the finish line of their goal. But the Jews in Palestine were a pre existing constituency, and to paint a picture like the Holocaust happened and the UK didn't want to authorize a Jewish state for Holocaust survivors is very misleading. The Israeli and Palestinean situation was pre existing and even without WWII and without a Holocaust, the Jewish, Palestinean tension over land was there and the UK would have been tired anyway of dealing with it.

Palestine was a mandate and it was already assumed the Brits would leave Palestine along in the near future, which would have to involve some agreement between Jews and Palestineans. The Brits didn't look for Palestine, they weren't looking for a war with Turkey but shit happens and they ended up with half the Middle East in their lap. In the spirit of "self determination", these areas were turned into mandates where they'd leave after the colonies were self governing. The Europeans got to benefit from the spoils of the war for a few decades without either the PR nightmare or logistical hassal of occupying a colony. Keeping their hands off was very much at the heart of their intentions from the beginning. This isn't India which was a formal British colony where the Brits where pushed away kicking and screaming. From the moment Palestine was in British hands the outcome you've described is the one they were going for. Nothing for or against Israel.

Also the Brits were dealing with the whole Ireland situation and I think the last thing on earth they wanted to do was get involved in another conflict between local religious groups.

The UK, France and Israel would have succeeded if Dwight Eisenhower didn't threaten them assuming the Soviets didn't intervene. The invasion was going very smoothly and Eisenhower probably threatened to do very violent things to get them to stop on a moments notice. Ah a time when we had a President who actually wanted stability.

The French were run by a right wing lunatic who wanted to be Napoleon. Dude was a nobody who only got to succeed because he was the biggest military person who escaped France and didn't cooperate with the Nazi's. Every wonder why we got dragged into the Vietnam War? French were brutal af in Vietnam, the Vietmanese Communists revolted and in the name of wonderful containement we stepped in and lost thousands of American lives to a Commi who'd lived in the US who admired the founding fathers and actually wanted to be our friend if we didn't insist on destroying his country in the name of a depraved lunatic(and then containment).

Don't get me started on the Algeria thing. France spends a century bitching about their low birth rate(France bitching about their birth rate was the main issue that led to the Treaty of Versailles and WWII, needed to keep Germany down really hard because France had such a smaller birthrate) which was caused by going to war every generation for four hundred fucking years. Do you know France is supposed to have a population about the size of ours if they didn't just keep killing each generation? Anyhow now they got Algeria which is part of France, traditional part of the Roman Empire, fight to keep it and while that doesn't work out, lots of Algerians bought into that, Algeria has a fucking huge population, get 10% to 20% to buy in and that's a lot. Then after the war the Algerians who were supposedly French immigrate and fix France's problem for them, and instead of the French saying thank you, the French go all out Nazi and start crying about how they are losing their identity when they are still 90%ish ethnically homogeneous.

I stopped reading at "England didn't want Israel to exist, they didn't not want Israel to exist."

My original point was to show Psychedelic how incredibly wrong he was when he stated Israel was created by England. I did that.

I'm not here to discuss France, Algeria or Vietnam.
 
I stopped reading at "England didn't want Israel to exist, they didn't not want Israel to exist."

My original point was to show Psychedelic how incredibly wrong he was when he stated Israel was created by England. I did that.

I'm not here to discuss France, Algeria or Vietnam.

You can't comphrend indifference and nuetrality is a myth?

Israel was created from a British League of Nations Mandate which was intended to eventually become independent from the get go. So I mean it's a semantics question guess you can argue to the end of the world what "created" means but no Psychedelic was not incredibly wrong.

What is incredibly wrong is you referring to the UK as England;)
 
These former member of the Israeli Knesset makes good points throughout this talk. A state cannot be given. It has to be built and Israel built the infrastructure to make itself a state.

Salam Fayyad had the idea that the Palestinians should build the infrastructure of its own state and become a state that way, but he never had the backing that he should have had.

 
Finally the truth is coming out who is responsible for the mass murder in New Zealand.




People are odd animals.
 
You can't comphrend indifference and nuetrality is a myth?

Honestly, no because the British weren't indifferent to the creation of Israel. They were against it. The White Paper of 1939 makes this clear. It rejected the creation of a separate Jewish state but called for an independent Palestine run jointly by Jews and Arabs. This was Britain's government policy until the pullout.

"His Majesty's Government therefore now declare unequivocally that it is not part of their policy that Palestine should become a Jewish State."


Basically, the Brits decided by 1939 that there were enough Jews in Palestine that they had fulfilled the Balfour Declaration promise of creating a national home for the Jews. So the White Paper restricted immigration from Europe (in the face of the Nazis) and restricted land purchases by Jews from Arabs.

These aren't the actions of a nation that is indifferent or neutral.

Britain's abstention in the U.N. Assembly vote was simply calculated politics. Following the Holocaust and then Britain's decision to send death camp survivors trying to get out of Europe and into Palestine to refugee camps in Cyprus, the British couldn't possibly vote no...the shame was simply to great. On the other hand, Britain didn't want to piss off its allies - Egypt, Syria, and Iraq.

Israel was created from a British League of Nations Mandate which was intended to eventually become independent from the get go. So I mean it's a semantics question guess you can argue to the end of the world what "created" means but no Psychedelic was not incredibly wrong.

The League of Nations called for (like the Balfour Declaration) a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine. As shown above, the British definition was very different from the Israel we know today. The Israel that was established in May 1948 was very different from what the British wanted.

Just for the record (not really for you, but anybody else reading this), Israel wasn't created by the Brits, the League of Nations or the U.N. It was created by David Ben Gurion on May 14, 1948. Had it been created under the U.N. (which inherited the League of Nations mandate), our initial recognition of Israel would have been de jure rather than de facto.

What is incredibly wrong is you referring to the UK as England;)

You only have James VII to blame :)
 
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