Analysis and Critique of Fedor Emelianenko

[tatanos]

Fedor's career could be summed up in three parts, starting with his early rudimentary striking and terrifying Judo in the Rings phase with explosive throws and the ingenious rhythm of moving where unexpected; improving position, striking the body, slapping on a submission or just waiting. It is this habit of waiting which characterizes what made Fedor so elusive and great as a fighter but especially when he was young. He didn't wind up strikes so much as pepper them, shifting from movement to movement as the pressure mounted. An inexhaustible patience and unnatural calm sitting in an opponent's guard as he brought the fight into his rhythm - the opponent reduced to passivity, his offense invariably stifled in one way or another. Then out of a particularly bad or forced decision, trying to resolve the deadlock, Fedor would sit back and drop a hammer.

This rhythm continued into the middle stage and zenith of Fedor's career, his Pride campaign. If there was a weakness to be identified in Fedor at this point, it was his own offense and unwillingness to let the fight stagnate. Critics of Fedor forget that what made him great was not only his 34-4 record, (before he returned in 2015, more on this later) it was his fighting style that was always exciting and daring. Whereas defensive minded fighters are at heart opportunists, not risking themselves and snatching on openings even if it meant reducing the audience to tears, (stalling in fights was just as big a problem for Pride as they are still in the UFC). Offensive fighters carry in them a stroke of demented self-sacrificial will, they abandon the relative safety and comfort of counter-striking, maintaining distance, and conserving stamina, and leap into the unknown with all their effort. They don't wait for opportunities to arise, they forge them through the rapid closing of distance, ferocity of their strikes, and split-second reaction to a plethora of emerging outcomes - settling on the most favorable one.

As a fighter, Fedor's entire style was geared towards explosive reactions to the changing circumstances the opponent posed in their positioning, mind games, and temperament. This was counter-posed to his habit of waiting with a serene calm as if the situation would dramatically change just because of a couple of seconds. The cautious Semmy Schilt put himself just as out of position through losing the small battles, as Heath Herring did by throwing out a big one. It was against strong and bullying opponents that Fedor's Judo wreaked so much havoc against. What enabled him to dominate his opponent (with the exception of Ricardo Arona who powered through with single and double legs and stalling on the ground, getting reversed on his first submission attempt) was an unbreakable focus which tried to out think every small behavior.

What has been noted about Fedor is just how elusive he is as a fighter, one of the least-hit fighters in MMA with a seemingly impenetrable defense. No one could crack his shell as he didn't reveal weakness in any situation, always the same exacerbating calm. Even at the heights of his greatness he never let this stoic mask fall and had nothing bad to say about his opponents, didn't fall into the narcissistic traps of false modesty like Cro Cop offering his hand to held fighters up, telling them to stand up, etc. He characterized the Soviet model of a sportsman, self inflicted suffering of unmentioned regime and discipline and a stoic humbleness as if to say; "there is nothing special about me, I only put in the hours, if you did the same, you would be just like me or even better."

But two people could indeed put in the exact same hours in training, twins let us imagine, yet if they were to fight one of them would undoubtedly emerge the victor eventually. What is the hidden variable in this situation? Is can only be that of character.

Although a man who chooses his words carefully, if you watch his interviews you notice Fedor could talk endlessly about character and what constitutes a proper athlete, someone who will triumph over his rival competitors. If we could sum it up, it must look like so;

i. Ascetic self-discipline and un-deviated schedules, no luxuries and no distractions.
ii. No illusions, there is nothing special about you that magically makes you better or unique over everyone else, it is just the result of training.
iii. To be able to think clearly and see your own mistakes, and then be able to correct them.
iv. Humbleness, calm, and control over all aspects of your being, including your emotions.
v. Trust in your coaches and their methods, they will pay off if you work together as a team.

Yet now we arrive at the critique portion of this thread, where Fedor started to lose what made him special compared to everyone else. Just as the USSR transitioned into the Russian Federation in 1991 and has stagnated into nationalism, reactionary politics, and religious revival, so too did Fedor. He lost almost everything that made his character unique compared to a typical fighter, what could be called his composure. Yet I'll take a moment to deviate from this point and look at the antithesis of Fedor; his brother Aleksander.

If Fedor represents calm and keeping your emotions in check, trusting your own discipline to carry you forward, Aleksander represents the nihilistic excess of this temperament. If you act as if you are undisturbed by all the difficulties of life, maybe there's no sense getting disturbed by anything? What if life is ultimately meaningless, and all you can do is resign to your fate and show your contempt towards it? Where Fedor was trying to create a meaning for his own life, Aleksander ultimately got dragged along and didn't see the point. He would subject himself to the same regime sure, just because of his proximity to Fedor's coaches and athletic friends, maybe even get rich and famous, but what was it all for?

Fedor is quoted as saying;

Is it an accomplishment to lose 3 years and be able to return to the ring?

Fedor: No. In his case it's far from an accomplishment. Even though 3 and a half years really held back his growth as an athlete. And in the social life Aleksander became different. Prison really made its imprint. His outlook on life has changed, and it seems, not in a good way.

You and him are totally different?

Fedor: Yes. I'm sure those things could not have happened to me. During the time when Aleksander was looking for adventures on his rear end, I killed myself training. I had a goal - to reach something in sport.

Here we have a question of what came first, Alexander's contempt for life and desire for cheap thrills, or his incarceration and involvement with gangs?

Ultimately we can't know for sure and speculating about someone's life without evidence is just a more pleasant form of character assassination. Why I want to bring this up is because the exact same thing happened to Fedor some time around 2007 or 2008, his attitude towards life changed and he lost his earlier materiality, his effort and hard work in actively changing life. Life as something that is under your control and can be changed by your own will, and that there is no intervening other or superstition that will effect the outcome except blind luck. What is meant by this? Consider these two quotes which have been repeated so often on this website without ever being attributed a source, they have perhaps become apocryphal;

Young Fedor: "Years ago we hardly had anything to eat. Now I earn more money and I see every opponent as a man that tries to put me back to that poorer period. That man has to be eliminated."

Post 2007 Fedor: "I'm very grateful to God for what he gives me. Victories, remarkable victories, but you have to go through the defeats. That is why I praise God for everything."

We arrive at the point of It's God's will, or as teenager's in their mom's basement are parroting across all corners of the internet these days; Deus Vult, literally meaning in Latin "God wills it"

Does God Really Will It?

To make a brief theological point, when Jesus left the earth he left humans with nothing except the holy spirit, or the holy community of believers. He promised that when he returned it would be the judgement day. This is why we can say that all those believers in miracles or divine interventions on earth are not really true believers, they are more like scientific skeptics; "Show me the proof!" Yet imagine, as in the case of weeping statues which are proclaimed to be the real blood or tears of Christ. Okay, then let's do a quick DNA test and see who the real father is!

Anyways why did I even bother to bring this up? Because I want to make a rebuttal of Fedor's faith and growing superstition on purely theological grounds, literally dismissing it by its own logic. If God wanted humans to be free to decide our fates, and gave us a free will and the powers of judgement, then isn't intervening on earth directly limiting our freedom? Does the big man trust us or not, I ask? And if so, why should anyone burn in hell or go to heaven if it was all predestined? So we can see, maybe Fedor is not really an Orthodox Christian, but he is more like a reformed Protestant when he says; if I win it's because of God, and if I lose it's because of God, my fate has already been decided.

Maybe god's will has shown itself in his three losses and the draw / near defeat to Fabio Maldonado; "if you think I'm invested in the outcome of your fights and so you don't have to train properly or really care and want to win, then I want you to lose."

Why did Fedor shift towards faith and Russian politics? Perhaps it has to do with his accumulating injuries, he had to start fighting differently because he couldn't commit to training as much as before (try locking a Kimura on someone if there are bones floating around in one of your hands). It could be because his father passed away in 2012 and he was dealing with divorce. Maybe he didn't want to give into the temptation of his brother's nihilism as his career reached its peak and he had nothing left to achieve or live for, so religion and re-commitment to family was a new meaning to life?

Okay so to wrap this thread up, let's compare how Fedor used to fight to how he was fighting when he went to America. First of all, his wrestling and judo was greatly diminished, he couldn't keep people down anymore and even the smaller Dan Henderson was grinding him out against the cage. His striking lost its depth, the hand traps were gone, the off-balancing with pushes was gone, the jab was done away with in favor of hooking rights. His trips and throws were diminished or almost non-existent, and his timing was so rushed. As most people have said on this forum before; it looks like he wants to end the fight as soon as possible.

Could Fedor even be considered a religious person before his conversion as he was preparing to fight in America? Consider a quote from one of his favorite athletes and the mentor he said he looked up to as a kid, Soviet weightlifter Yuri Vlasov;

"Q: What was your view on your opponents?

A: I hated them. Maybe, in your eyes, these words make me sound bad. But... Neither the feeling of risk, nor the fans in the lifting hall, nor the feeling of pain have power over you on the platform. It's the resistance. It's the feeling of the fight! The fury activates muscles. Get the opponent! Overthrow him! Against all odds - get him and get the victory!"

This is his self-avowed mentor, I ask you, does this sound like a god fearing man? To me it sounds like the embodiment of Fedor's savage spirit in his prime, unloading hooks and making Nogueira's head bounce off the canvas. For no purpose other than to accomplish his goal as a human being, his purpose for his whole existence, which through his training was to distinguish himself as an athlete and set an example for all his fans to follow in strength and spirit. To overcome another person who was just as dedicated and trying just as hard with all his soul to prove that his fighting methods are the best under heaven and earth.

With Fedor set to fight June 24th we're going to see if he's finally learned from the Fabio Maldonado fight that God's will has no place in professional sport competition, which is the realm of man and man (and women) alone. He is training in Holland, throwing combinations and using modern training methods, maybe we're about to witness the impossible? Yet every time I see him meditating in a church or mentioning God, I feel a certain uneasiness, this is not who he always was, and it only takes a glance through the Prime Fedor of pre 2007 to see a more ferocious beast than the pudgy, wild brawler of today.

 

[Bubblun]

I appreciate the effort in making this thread, but to me the God story is just an excuse made by unrational fans to give an explanation about his supposed decline, like the "kettlebells photo" thing, like he was supposed to be some kind of muscular freak in his supposed best years instead of the same pudgy killer.

We don't know Fedor psychology, what passes thought his mind, his daily personal life, the man is a mistery.

What we know the man fought the same way before and after the supposed "God phase" you are talking about, fearless and aggressive, like he was in a trance.
He hasn't lost to Werdum, Hendo and almost lost to Maldonado because he was mentally different, but because he made mistakes and the opponents were able and good enough to capitalize.
Everything else is just speculation.


This is Fedor being countered by Maldonado

And this is Fedor doing the same patented "fake right hard, jumping lead hook" his whole career

What's the difference? In Fedor nothing, the difference was that Maldonado was good and skilled enough to counter a move that is very counterable, instead of trying to figure out what supposedly changed in Fedor, why people can't give credit to the opponent? Fighting is between two men.

You say that he used to have a savage spirit against Nogueira, because he was not a god-fearing-man, but he fought the same against Werdum, and lost for the same exact reason, being too "savage spirit" in a world champion guard i suppose.

Hate break it to you but the "ferocious beast" and the "pudgy, wild brawler" are the same person, it is a matter of perspective.

 

[Katsumi Yamada]

Wow you put a lot of effort into this.

Bookmarked for bedtime reading.

 

[chamcham]

Fedor's main problem is that he failed to evolve. MMA caught up with him and he didn't add anything new to his toolbox.

Also, i think his injuries have taken a toll on him.

Fedor was GOAT for his time. He had the amazing ability to adapt and beat fighters at their own game. But after PRIDE was over, he somehow changed. The Arlovski and Brett Rogers fights were the beginning of Fedor's decline. He was strictly a brawler at that point.

I still wonder how Fedor would have done against Barnett, Overeem, or Cormier in Strikeforce around that time.

 

[LiveFreeorDie]

Fedor did the exact same guard escape against(shoulder shrug) Nog that he did against Werdum so many years later. He was still attempting to escape the triangle in the wrong direction 10 years later.

 

[KOskater]

Didn't read but this is amazing!

 

[tatanos]

I appreciate the effort in making this thread, but to me the God story is just an excuse made by unrational fans to give an explanation about his supposed decline, like the "kettlebells photo" thing, like he was supposed to be some kind of muscular freak in his supposed best years instead of the same pudgy killer.

We don't know Fedor psychology, what passes thought his mind, his daily personal life, the man is a mistery.

What we know the man fought the same way before and after the supposed "God phase" you are talking about, fearless and aggressive, like he was in a trance.
He hasn't lost to Werdum, Hendo and almost lost to Maldonado because he was mentally different, but because he made mistakes and the opponents were able and good enough to capitalize.
Everything else is just speculation.


This is Fedor being countered by Maldonado

And this is Fedor doing the same patented "fake right hard, jumping lead hook" his whole career

What's the difference? In Fedor nothing, the difference was that Maldonado was good and skilled enough to counter a move that is very counterable, instead of trying to figure out what supposedly changed in Fedor, why people can't give credit to the opponent? Fighting is between two men.

You say that he used to have a savage spirit against Nogueira, because he was not a god-fearing-man, but he fought the same against Werdum, and lost for the same exact reason, being too "savage spirit" in a world champion guard i suppose.

Hate break it to you but the "ferocious beast" and the "pudgy, wild brawler" are the same person, it is a matter of perspective.

I agree with what you're saying, but there is a marked difference in composure and timing which its difficult to capture in snapshots of his fights like in .gifs, you would have to watch their entirety. Whereas 'Prime Fedor' would walk his opponents down and develop a careful timing, exploding only if he sees an opening, don't you sense a certain superstition to the way he approached his fights in America? For example, he wades in much closer before beginning his attack as if he doesn't have the same ability to cover distance as before. The hooks he threw against Maldonado felt less like a way to close distance and change levels at the same time, than just trying to put hands on him and knock him out. He also feels rushed, as if he doesn't dispose of his opponent as quickly as possible (jumping into Werdum's guard despite his game plan against Nogueira 3 of out pointing him with throws and striking) than they'll break through his slower reaction times and weaker core strength.

The reason I made the religion argument is because I feel there's a certain lack of commitment to the way Fedor approached his fights post 2007, his training time and quality both got reduced as he quit weightlifting, stuck to mediocre training partners, lowered the time of his camps from 6 - 8 weeks to sometimes 3 - 5. In addition, his notorious entourage of sycophantic hanger-ons that seem to have no other purpose than to provide moral support (his priest, and also his small friend with the bowl-cut and beard). What really got me interested in making this thread is how the way he talked literally changed, which to me implies a change in his thoughts. Less time was spent discussing the strengths of his opponents and his own preparations, and would just smile in an ambiguous and mystical way and say "with the help of God....."

Anyhow, this thread turned into more of a biography and less of an actual fighter analysis, but I wanted to try and elucidate some of the mystery behind the man, and try to answer the question of why his prime ended at around 32 (of course wear and tear, but he seemed healthy and uninjured) and my answer is that he lost his burning drive to win by his own methods and will, instead trusting in God to intervene and take care of things.

 

[Mixfight]

I dont think religion was the problem. I could be wrong but I believe that even if Fedor was religious from 2002-2006 he would have still kicked the shit out of everyone he fought during that time and no one would be bashing him for being religious. It just so happens that by the time Fedor became religious he was also far past his prime.

The fact is Fedor reached the pinnacle of the sport in 2003 when won the World HW championship belt which at that time was the equivalent to the UFC HW belt today. Two years later in 2005 he defended his belt against Cro Cop who at the time was the most dangerous and feared fighter in the HW division. That was clearly his prime which is 12 YEARS AGO. More than a fucking decade ago.

During these years Fedor was training insanely hard. Running 10 miles a day. Doing elaborate training camps at high altitude in Kislovodsk and training with guys like Volk Han, Mikhail Illukhin, Sergei Kharitonov, Alexander Emelianenko and Roman Zentzov. All of them were tough, gritty fighters who could prepare Fedor properly for what he would face in the ring.

By the end of 2006 it already looked to me like Fedor was getting tired of the grind, the injuries were catching up with him and it seemed that he began sloghtly slowing down and probably relying less on hard training and more on his in fight adaptability and life long developed tools. To me he already looked questionable in the second Coleman fight. His punches didnt look as fast as they did before. Fedor also looked questionable in the Hunt fight and when I saw Matt Lindland easily get underhooks on him and nearly take him down I was convinced that Fedor was slowing down and definitely no longer in his prime clearly on the decline.

Fedor went on to sign with Affliction and absolutely destroyed Sylvia which was very impressive and to me that was a flash of brilliance from the aging legend. Watching the Arlovski fight I couldnt help but notice he had slowed down noticeably and wasnt nearly as cerebral as he was in his peak form. His coach said Fedor won by his "Old tricks" By this time Fedor's hype outgrew his development and skills as a fighter but there was too much money to be made to start telling people he was out of his prime so they kept hyping him.

Fedor signs with Strikeforce and struggles with Brett Rogers. Sure he knocked him out in epic fashion and showed some flashes of brilliance but you could really see in that fight how much his grappling regressed. By this time Fedor was a 9 year veteran in mixfight with over 30 fights, multiple injuries and a much, much weaker and less elaborate training camp. He went from training with Alex,Sergei and Volkhan to training with Kirill Sidelnikov and Maxim Grishin. Sorry but those guys werent going to simulate Werdum's BJJ, Bigfoots size and BJJ and Henderson wrestling, clinching and brawling and it was clear in those fights Fedor wasnt well prepared for those aspects of their games.

By this time Fedor was a millionaire, a 10 year veteran who had reach the pinnacle of the sport, and was a physically and emotionally exhausted athlete so he fought a few more times and retired. The fact is by then Fedor was 5-6 years past his prime with nothing left to prove in the sport. What are we left with today in 2017? A guy who is 12 years past his prime with a deteriorated wrestling and ground game potentially deteriorated chin. What we are left with is a legend with lots of heart, experience and fast hands but his overall game is a shell of what it once was.

I hope he can pull off this win but I really worry him in this fight. I believe Fedor is the GOAT no matter what and the greatest fighter I have ever seen. It was an honor to watch him fight live.

 

[Rudeboyben84]

Lot of talk of religion, Russian god is a total dick for letting Fedor get fat and lose.

Fedor > God all day.

 

[Claude]

I appreciate the effort in making this thread, but to me the God story is just an excuse made by unrational fans to give an explanation about his supposed decline, like the "kettlebells photo" thing, like he was supposed to be some kind of muscular freak in his supposed best years instead of the same pudgy killer.

We don't know Fedor psychology, what passes thought his mind, his daily personal life, the man is a mistery.

What we know the man fought the same way before and after the supposed "God phase" you are talking about, fearless and aggressive, like he was in a trance.
He hasn't lost to Werdum, Hendo and almost lost to Maldonado because he was mentally different, but because he made mistakes and the opponents were able and good enough to capitalize.
Everything else is just speculation.


This is Fedor being countered by Maldonado

And this is Fedor doing the same patented "fake right hard, jumping lead hook" his whole career

What's the difference? In Fedor nothing, the difference was that Maldonado was good and skilled enough to counter a move that is very counterable, instead of trying to figure out what supposedly changed in Fedor, why people can't give credit to the opponent? Fighting is between two men.

You say that he used to have a savage spirit against Nogueira, because he was not a god-fearing-man, but he fought the same against Werdum, and lost for the same exact reason, being too "savage spirit" in a world champion guard i suppose.

Hate break it to you but the "ferocious beast" and the "pudgy, wild brawler" are the same person, it is a matter of perspective.

There's a gigantic flaw in your argument though.

A fighter's prime comes from a combination of factors. It's not just about the techniques used. Physical factors such as speed, strength, reflexes, duriability, etc. also come into play.

Fedor was was able to withstand a full power haymaker from 240+ lbs Fujita, straight to the temple, yet he was dropped by a seemingly far weaker punch from a smaller Fabio Maldonado.

Chin and durability were clearly not the same. There's simply no way a near 40 year old Fedor would have survived that ^. It's a proven fact that after a fighter gets a brain consussion it can happen again even easier. Fedor at the time he fought Fabio had already received a good amount of punishment, including brain concussion. Part of what made Fedor so highly regarded was his durability (e.g. getting slammed on his head against Randleman) and that durability was simply gone. No human being stays the same for over 10 years, much less with wear and tear.

Another flaw to your argument is that Fedor mixed his striking with grappling during his best days. He actually took Gary Goodridge to the ground. He took Schilt to the ground. He took Crocop to the ground.

How many times did he try to take Maldonado to the ground?



He also didn't fight the same with Werdum as he did with Nogueira. Against Nog (1st fight) he was actually very composed both in the stand-up and on the ground and he was careful not to have both arms inside to avoid the triangle. Against Werdum he didn't care and left one arm in (even after escaping a first triangle attempt) while he desperately landed weak hammerfists on Werdum's face. He never did that vs. Nog.

In the 3rd Nog fight (which was most likely closer to his peak) he actually sprawl and brawled and didn't spend much time in Nog's guard before getting back up.

Even after landing a bomb he didn't go crazy trying to go for a finish:

Something very different from what he did vs. Werdum:

And he made a similar mistake against Henderson.

See? You are completely wrong whe you say "the man fought the same way before". It's pretty obvious he didn't. You can't narrow down a fighter to one move and pretend he's the same as he was 10 years ago, while completely overlooking everything else. That's simply a terribly flawed logic.

Cheers.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

Fedor was very much a brute force grappler in his prime. That's not to shit on his technique, it was excellent, but he exploded through his submissions and muscled his way out of his opponent's; that was his style. As he got away from his grappling, we started to see him look more and more vulnerable, but ultimately it was age and wear and tear that laid him low and opened the door for his terrible run in Strikeforce.

Anyone that would claim that the Fedor that fought Maldonado was in any way comparable to the Fedor of 12 years ago simply has no idea what he is talking about. Fedor's chin, reflexes, and gas tank are shot and I wish he would hang 'em up. This upcoming fight with Mitrione is a dangerous one for him, but based on Meathead's performance against Semanutafa I think he might be on a downslide himself which makes this match a little more interesting for me.

I still wish it wasn't happening but...

 

[Xuh]

Yet now we arrive at the critique portion of this thread, where Fedor started to lose what made him special compared to everyone else. Just as the USSR transitioned into the Russian Federation in 1991 and has stagnated into nationalism, reactionary politics, and religious revival, so too did Fedor. He lost almost everything that made his character unique

x 1,000,000

 

[Mixfight]

There's a gigantic flaw in your argument though.

A fighter's prime comes from a combination of factors. It's not just about the techniques used. Physical factors such as speed, strength, reflexes, duriability, etc. also come into play.

Fedor was was able to withstand a full power haymaker from 240+ lbs Fujita, straight to the temple, yet he was dropped by a seemingly far weaker punch from a smaller Fabio Maldonado.

Chin and durability were clearly not the same. There's simply no way a near 40 year old Fedor would have survived that ^. It's a proven fact that after a fighter gets a brain consussion it can happen again even easier. Fedor at the time he fought Fabio had already received a good amount of punishment, including brain concussion. Part of what made Fedor so highly regarded was his durability (e.g. getting slammed on his head against Randleman) and that durability was simply gone. No human being stays the same for over 10 years, much less with wear and tear.

Another flaw to your argument is that Fedor mixed his striking with grappling during his best days. He actually took Gary Goodridge to the ground. He took Schilt to the ground. He took Crocop to the ground.

How many times did he try to take Maldonado to the ground?



He also didn't fight the same with Werdum as he did with Nogueira. Against Nog (1st fight) he was actually very composed both in the stand-up and on the ground and he was careful not to have both arms inside to avoid the triangle. Against Werdum he didn't care and left one arm in (even after escaping a first triangle attempt) while he desperately landed weak hammerfists on Werdum's face. He never did that vs. Nog.

In the 3rd Nog fight (which was most likely closer to his peak) he actually sprawl and brawled and didn't spend much time in Nog's guard before getting back up.

Even after landing a bomb he didn't go crazy trying to go for a finish:

Something very different from what he did vs. Werdum:

And he made a similar mistake against Henderson.

See? You are completely wrong whe you say "the man fought the same way before". It's pretty obvious he didn't. You can't narrow down a fighter to one move and pretend he's the same as he was 10 years ago, while completely overlooking everything else. That's simply a terribly flawed logic.

Cheers.

This is a good post. When Fedor started accumulating wear and tear and started losing his durability that was the best time to really start taking his diet, strength and conditioning, rehab and training to a new level.

The reason why guys like Arlovski, Reem, Hunt and Barnett are still relevant is because they have stepped their camps up from the mid 2000s. Theyre at elite training facilities with great sparring, strength and conditioning, technique training, diet and nutrition and recovery methods. While these guys have been doing that the last 5 years, Fedor has been deteriorating even more in Russia with dated training and shitty training partners.

But you cant blame him because by 2010 he was 10 years past his prime and probably emotionally and physically exhausted from all the years of injuries and training camps plus personal problems outside of fighting. Fedors prime was 12 years ago and you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

 

[Mixfight]

Fedor was very much a brute force grappler in his prime. That's not to shit on his technique, it was excellent, but he exploded through his submissions and muscled his way out of his opponent's; that was his style. As he got away from his grappling, we started to see him look more and more vulnerable, but ultimately it was age and wear and tear that laid him low and opened the door for his terrible run in Strikeforce.

Anyone that would claim that the Fedor that fought Maldonado was in any way comparable to the Fedor of 12 years ago simply has no idea what he is talking about. Fedor's chin, reflexes, and gas tank are shot and I wish he would hang 'em up. This upcoming fight with Mitrione is a dangerous one for him, but based on Meathead's performance against Semanutafa I think he might be on a downslide himself which makes this match a little more interesting for me.

I still wish it wasn't happening but...

Good post. Agreed pretty much on all accounts.

 

[tatanos]

This is a good post. When Fedor started accumulating wear and tear and started losing his durability that was the best time to really start taking his diet, strength and conditioning, rehab and training to a new level.

The reason why guys like Arlovski, Reem, Hunt and Barnett are still relevant is because they have stepped their camps up from the mid 2000s. Theyre at elite training facilities with great sparring, strength and conditioning, technique training, diet and nutrition and recovery methods. While these guys have been doing that the last 5 years, Fedor has been deteriorating even more in Russia with dated training and shitty training partners.

But you cant blame him because by 2010 he was 10 years past his prime and probably emotionally and physically exhausted from all the years of injuries and training camps plus personal problems outside of fighting. Fedors prime was 12 years ago and you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

Agreed, also at this point we can also say that Holland isn't enough, it's not 2012 anymore and Fedor should be sparring in an intelligent way with top 10 fighters. It's Fedor's nationalistic illusion that Russians carry within them some kind of innate talent for MMA, the best fighters in the world have talent for MMA, and his team isn't pushing him to the level he needed to be at. However I essentially agree with Jack Slack, if you can't utilize crucial parts of fighting that used to be your forte such as grappling because of injuries, and you're relying on striking which is so reliant on a fading athleticism, then you should retire and avoid further damage.

However as is the case with Andrei Arlovski, being with a top team isn't enough to give you a good chance of winning. The health and conditioning of your body is crucial, and personally I think that if you're losing your athletic abilities, you need to rely more on grinding and clinching which slow the fight down and make it more favorable for a slower and aged fighter with less power. Striking is not a game which is favorable for older men with fading reflexes, declining coordination and agility, reduced power, and an arsenal which is only comprised of leading with a power punch that leaves your defenses bare.

There is so much that can be criticized and people have been talking about it for years now with the 'prime' argument, if you would only be brutally real with yourself and the fighter, you'll see just how much Fedor is taking for granted. His reason for returning to fighting is because of the passion he has for mixed martial arts and competing. However, the way he is fighting and training shows that he isn't up to the level he used to be at anymore and needs to completely change his team, nutrition, maybe experiment with weight classes or match ups. We can see that he is unwilling to make changes to these things and wants to test himself against what he sees as the toughest while getting treated with respect and paid well.

That is all fine and good, but adding a string of losses to an excellent career in addition to accumulating damage that someone who's older can't afford to take, should make people seriously reconsider him going on the way he is. It is painful to watch as a fan, and it's hard to show fidelity to a fighter who has such a care-free attitude to fighting and head trauma.

 

[Undying Poster]

Fedor did the exact same guard escape against(shoulder shrug) Nog that he did against Werdum so many years later. He was still attempting to escape the triangle in the wrong direction 10 years later.

His way of getting out of full mount was simply to buck which he did against 265 lb Black Belt Bigfoot Silva. He was prone to cuts his whole career. I'll admit he was clearly past his prime by that fight but he still had the same flaws but it was difficult telling it to Fedor fanboys when it happened. They couldn't fathom him losing to Bigfoot in his prime even though he would make the same mistakes and still have paper skin.

 

[Chivas GDL]

In the RINGS era Arona beat fedor

 

[VERBAL-FEDOR]

Fedor's career could be summed up in three parts, starting with his early rudimentary striking and terrifying Judo in the Rings phase with explosive throws and the ingenious rhythm of moving where unexpected; improving position, striking the body, slapping on a submission or just waiting. It is this habit of waiting which characterizes what made Fedor so elusive and great as a fighter but especially when he was young. He didn't wind up strikes so much as pepper them, shifting from movement to movement as the pressure mounted. An inexhaustible patience and unnatural calm sitting in an opponent's guard as he brought the fight into his rhythm - the opponent reduced to passivity, his offense invariably stifled in one way or another. Then out of a particularly bad or forced decision, trying to resolve the deadlock, Fedor would sit back and drop a hammer.

This rhythm continued into the middle stage and zenith of Fedor's career, his Pride campaign. If there was a weakness to be identified in Fedor at this point, it was his own offense and unwillingness to let the fight stagnate. Critics of Fedor forget that what made him great was not only his 34-4 record, (before he returned in 2015, more on this later) it was his fighting style that was always exciting and daring. Whereas defensive minded fighters are at heart opportunists, not risking themselves and snatching on openings even if it meant reducing the audience to tears, (stalling in fights was just as big a problem for Pride as they are still in the UFC). Offensive fighters carry in them a stroke of demented self-sacrificial will, they abandon the relative safety and comfort of counter-striking, maintaining distance, and conserving stamina, and leap into the unknown with all their effort. They don't wait for opportunities to arise, they forge them through the rapid closing of distance, ferocity of their strikes, and split-second reaction to a plethora of emerging outcomes - settling on the most favorable one.

As a fighter, Fedor's entire style was geared towards explosive reactions to the changing circumstances the opponent posed in their positioning, mind games, and temperament. This was counter-posed to his habit of waiting with a serene calm as if the situation would dramatically change just because of a couple of seconds. The cautious Semmy Schilt put himself just as out of position through losing the small battles, as Heath Herring did by throwing out a big one. It was against strong and bullying opponents that Fedor's Judo wreaked so much havoc against. What enabled him to dominate his opponent (with the exception of Ricardo Arona who powered through with single and double legs and stalling on the ground, getting reversed on his first submission attempt) was an unbreakable focus which tried to out think every small behavior.

What has been noted about Fedor is just how elusive he is as a fighter, one of the least-hit fighters in MMA with a seemingly impenetrable defense. No one could crack his shell as he didn't reveal weakness in any situation, always the same exacerbating calm. Even at the heights of his greatness he never let this stoic mask fall and had nothing bad to say about his opponents, didn't fall into the narcissistic traps of false modesty like Cro Cop offering his hand to held fighters up, telling them to stand up, etc. He characterized the Soviet model of a sportsman, self inflicted suffering of unmentioned regime and discipline and a stoic humbleness as if to say; "there is nothing special about me, I only put in the hours, if you did the same, you would be just like me or even better."

But two people could indeed put in the exact same hours in training, twins let us imagine, yet if they were to fight one of them would undoubtedly emerge the victor eventually. What is the hidden variable in this situation? Is can only be that of character.

Although a man who chooses his words carefully, if you watch his interviews you notice Fedor could talk endlessly about character and what constitutes a proper athlete, someone who will triumph over his rival competitors. If we could sum it up, it must look like so;

i. Ascetic self-discipline and un-deviated schedules, no luxuries and no distractions.
ii. No illusions, there is nothing special about you that magically makes you better or unique over everyone else, it is just the result of training.
iii. To be able to think clearly and see your own mistakes, and then be able to correct them.
iv. Humbleness, calm, and control over all aspects of your being, including your emotions.
v. Trust in your coaches and their methods, they will pay off if you work together as a team.

Yet now we arrive at the critique portion of this thread, where Fedor started to lose what made him special compared to everyone else. Just as the USSR transitioned into the Russian Federation in 1991 and has stagnated into nationalism, reactionary politics, and religious revival, so too did Fedor. He lost almost everything that made his character unique compared to a typical fighter, what could be called his composure. Yet I'll take a moment to deviate from this point and look at the antithesis of Fedor; his brother Aleksander.

If Fedor represents calm and keeping your emotions in check, trusting your own discipline to carry you forward, Aleksander represents the nihilistic excess of this temperament. If you act as if you are undisturbed by all the difficulties of life, maybe there's no sense getting disturbed by anything? What if life is ultimately meaningless, and all you can do is resign to your fate and show your contempt towards it? Where Fedor was trying to create a meaning for his own life, Aleksander ultimately got dragged along and didn't see the point. He would subject himself to the same regime sure, just because of his proximity to Fedor's coaches and athletic friends, maybe even get rich and famous, but what was it all for?

Fedor is quoted as saying;

Here we have a question of what came first, Alexander's contempt for life and desire for cheap thrills, or his incarceration and involvement with gangs?

Ultimately we can't know for sure and speculating about someone's life without evidence is just a more pleasant form of character assassination. Why I want to bring this up is because the exact same thing happened to Fedor some time around 2007 or 2008, his attitude towards life changed and he lost his earlier materiality, his effort and hard work in actively changing life. Life as something that is under your control and can be changed by your own will, and that there is no intervening other or superstition that will effect the outcome except blind luck. What is meant by this? Consider these two quotes which have been repeated so often on this website without ever being attributed a source, they have perhaps become apocryphal;

Young Fedor: "Years ago we hardly had anything to eat. Now I earn more money and I see every opponent as a man that tries to put me back to that poorer period. That man has to be eliminated."

Post 2007 Fedor: "I'm very grateful to God for what he gives me. Victories, remarkable victories, but you have to go through the defeats. That is why I praise God for everything."

We arrive at the point of It's God's will, or as teenager's in their mom's basement are parroting across all corners of the internet these days; Deus Vult, literally meaning in Latin "God wills it"

Does God Really Will It?

To make a brief theological point, when Jesus left the earth he left humans with nothing except the holy spirit, or the holy community of believers. He promised that when he returned it would be the judgement day. This is why we can say that all those believers in miracles or divine interventions on earth are not really true believers, they are more like scientific skeptics; "Show me the proof!" Yet imagine, as in the case of weeping statues which are proclaimed to be the real blood or tears of Christ. Okay, then let's do a quick DNA test and see who the real father is!

Anyways why did I even bother to bring this up? Because I want to make a rebuttal of Fedor's faith and growing superstition on purely theological grounds, literally dismissing it by its own logic. If God wanted humans to be free to decide our fates, and gave us a free will and the powers of judgement, then isn't intervening on earth directly limiting our freedom? Does the big man trust us or not, I ask? And if so, why should anyone burn in hell or go to heaven if it was all predestined? So we can see, maybe Fedor is not really an Orthodox Christian, but he is more like a reformed Protestant when he says; if I win it's because of God, and if I lose it's because of God, my fate has already been decided.

Maybe god's will has shown itself in his three losses and the draw / near defeat to Fabio Maldonado; "if you think I'm invested in the outcome of your fights and so you don't have to train properly or really care and want to win, then I want you to lose."

Why did Fedor shift towards faith and Russian politics? Perhaps it has to do with his accumulating injuries, he had to start fighting differently because he couldn't commit to training as much as before (try locking a Kimura on someone if there are bones floating around in one of your hands). It could be because his father passed away in 2012 and he was dealing with divorce. Maybe he didn't want to give into the temptation of his brother's nihilism as his career reached its peak and he had nothing left to achieve or live for, so religion and re-commitment to family was a new meaning to life?

Okay so to wrap this thread up, let's compare how Fedor used to fight to how he was fighting when he went to America. First of all, his wrestling and judo was greatly diminished, he couldn't keep people down anymore and even the smaller Dan Henderson was grinding him out against the cage. His striking lost its depth, the hand traps were gone, the off-balancing with pushes was gone, the jab was done away with in favor of hooking rights. His trips and throws were diminished or almost non-existent, and his timing was so rushed. As most people have said on this forum before; it looks like he wants to end the fight as soon as possible.

Could Fedor even be considered a religious person before his conversion as he was preparing to fight in America? Consider a quote from one of his favorite athletes and the mentor he said he looked up to as a kid, Soviet weightlifter Yuri Vlasov;

"Q: What was your view on your opponents?

A: I hated them. Maybe, in your eyes, these words make me sound bad. But... Neither the feeling of risk, nor the fans in the lifting hall, nor the feeling of pain have power over you on the platform. It's the resistance. It's the feeling of the fight! The fury activates muscles. Get the opponent! Overthrow him! Against all odds - get him and get the victory!"

This is his self-avowed mentor, I ask you, does this sound like a god fearing man? To me it sounds like the embodiment of Fedor's savage spirit in his prime, unloading hooks and making Nogueira's head bounce off the canvas. For no purpose other than to accomplish his goal as a human being, his purpose for his whole existence, which through his training was to distinguish himself as an athlete and set an example for all his fans to follow in strength and spirit. To overcome another person who was just as dedicated and trying just as hard with all his soul to prove that his fighting methods are the best under heaven and earth.

With Fedor set to fight June 24th we're going to see if he's finally learned from the Fabio Maldonado fight that God's will has no place in professional sport competition, which is the realm of man and man (and women) alone. He is training in Holland, throwing combinations and using modern training methods, maybe we're about to witness the impossible? Yet every time I see him meditating in a church or mentioning God, I feel a certain uneasiness, this is not who he always was, and it only takes a glance through the Prime Fedor of pre 2007 to see a more ferocious beast than the pudgy, wild brawler of today.

Very articulate and logical....too bad it will not be appreciated by most of the trolls/newbs aka dumbasses on this site.

 

[Undying Poster]

There's a gigantic flaw in your argument though.

A fighter's prime comes from a combination of factors. It's not just about the techniques used. Physical factors such as speed, strength, reflexes, duriability, etc. also come into play.

Fedor was was able to withstand a full power haymaker from 240+ lbs Fujita, straight to the temple, yet he was dropped by a seemingly far weaker punch from a smaller Fabio Maldonado.

Chin and durability were clearly not the same. There's simply no way a near 40 year old Fedor would have survived that ^. It's a proven fact that after a fighter gets a brain consussion it can happen again even easier. Fedor at the time he fought Fabio had already received a good amount of punishment, including brain concussion. Part of what made Fedor so highly regarded was his durability (e.g. getting slammed on his head against Randleman) and that durability was simply gone. No human being stays the same for over 10 years, much less with wear and tear.

I didn't even watch the Maldonaldo fight but I did watch the Fujita fight and I did watch Fujita during PRIDE. By the Fabio fight, Fedor was probably extremely washed up which probably no one will argue, which is why no one even brought up the fight but you. But I'd like to point out that Fujita is not a KO artist and Fabio was a pro Boxer (granted against TERRIBLE competition)

Who has Fujita KO'ed? James Thompson, who is known for his glass chin, after a WAR in which Fujita landed several flush shots? If Fujita never rocked Fedor, nobody would ever consider him a power puncher.

There's a HUGE difference between a pro-Boxer and a Wrestler even if the Boxer is lighter.

I just want to point this out because people always bring up Fujita to prove Fedor's chin and he simply is not a knock out artist but was just a typical wrestler for the most part.

I'm not trying to argue that Maldonaldo would body Fedor, I have never watched the fight but pro-Boxers are simply different from MMA fighters. This is why iron jaws like Mark Hunt, Anderson Silva, and Donald Cerrone get KO'ed in Boxing matches by shitty Boxers. You can't compare Boxers to amateur Wrestlers with below Amateur level Boxing.

 

[Undying Poster]

In the RINGS era Arona beat fedor

The Arona fight is one of those fights that proves his only way to get out of full mount was to explosively buck. It was a really close fight though. I'm not aware of RINGS scoring criteria but Arona was clearly in control of the fight and he would definitely win under the Unified Rules. If RINGS had a PRIDE style scoring, I can see an argument for Fedor winning but anyone saying Fedor or Arona easily won expose their bias, IMO.

Edit: RINGS doesn't have a scoring system on their Japanese website but on their Dutch website they use the 10-9 system.